What has happened to the American Male: RANT ALERT!

[Ulfwald]

What has happened to the American male? Today we all worry about who we might offend, change our stance based on how the general public feels. We had much rather back down, for fear of being called a bully.

John Wayne never changed his principals. He didn't care about who he offended, because he knew in his heart what was right. He never took any crap off of anyone, if someone made a move on his woman, he warned them what would happen then followed through on it. John Wayne was a man's man. He knew how a woman should be treated: With respec and dignaty, but that did not mean she could walk all over him either. He had no problem telling her when she was wrong, but he also did not beat her over it, he talked it out told his stance and let her know where she stood. Even in his most "tender" moments, you had no doubt he was a man. Strong silent type. Actions spoke louder than words. He honored his word, and a handshake was a deal that you honored with your word, not paper contracts and mealy mouthed legal speaking lawyers. (no offense Frenchie)

A fair fight meant you both settled it right then and there, no going back later with a gun because you got your a$$ whooped on, and afterwards you usually wound up sitting in a bar talking about tomorrow's business over a beer and a shot of whiskey.

Respect is something you earned, and then worked damned hard to keep. It wasn't earned over the point of a gun, it was earned by working hard, standing up for your beliefs, admitting when your wrong, and keeping it all fair. But fair does not mean that everyone has equal stuff, it means that everyone has equal opportunity to make their life what they want.

Where are those men today?

Rant over

 

[kduncan5]

The bleeding heart, politically correct, lawsuit loving minority were given power over all our lives and life as we know it will never be the same. Goodbye integrity, hello paranoia. -kd5-

 

[Orsorum]

These men are all around you... like you said, they're the strong, silent types. Odds are, you already know quite a few.

 

[yellowperil]

If you want life to be a John Wayne movie, you can still find it in rural parts of the South and Midwest. But everywhere else, the times are a'changin. In urban life the days of Father-knows-best patriarchy are over. Personally I don't see where a 'real' man gets off with the authority to tell a woman what's right or wrong, or gets to 'own' her like property. I read somewhere that women make up 57% of the college population, the highest it's ever been. Fewer men are graduating from college, and frankly we are becoming lazier than ever.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: yellowperil
If you want life to be a John Wayne movie, you can still find it in rural parts of America, in the South and Midwest. But everywhere else, the times are a'changin. In urban life the days of Father-knows-best patriarchy are over. Personally I don't see where a 'real' man gets off with the authority to tell a woman what's right or wrong, or gets to 'own' her like property. I read somewhere that women make up 57% of the college population, the highest it's ever been. Fewer men are graduating from college, and frankly we are becoming lazier than ever.

It's not a matter of "father-knows-best patriarchy"... it's a matter of having men who are strong, sensible, and true to their word.

To say that "we're becoming lazier than ever" is a vast overgeneralization and insult to the millions of men out there.

 

[compuwiz1]

Where have all the cowboys gone?

 

[yellowperil]

... it's a matter of having men who are strong, sensible, and true to their word.

and speaking of generalizations, what exactly does this mean? It seems rather vague considering most guys would characterize themselves as such. Statistically, however, men are not achieving as much as women now.

 

[Nefrodite]

yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: yellowperil

... it's a matter of having men who are strong, sensible, and true to their word.

and speaking of generalizations, what exactly does this mean? It seems rather vague considering most guys would characterize themselves as such. Statistically, however, men are not achieving as much as women now.

"attending college" doesn't mean "achieving equally". I don't generally (GENERALLY, Paige... ) consider a liberal arts major on the same level as an engineer, or a computer scientist, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if a great deal of guys delayed college simply to work in the tech field, or to pursue better job offers.

It is a generalization... but I think the fact exists that it's the man who wouldn't characterize himself as such that fits the bill the best. Maybe humility is part of it.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

I preemptively apologize... that came off as sarcasm.. I don't think the point of his thread was to advocate a return to the status quo of the 1950's... but just to a return to the integrity of what many call "true men".

 

[Ulfwald]

I never said a woman's place is in the home. Just because a man stands by his word does not mean that a woman belongs in the kitchen, and all the blacks have to sit at the back of the bus.

Women are eqal partners in life, deserving of respect, but it is a mans job to let her know where she stands in his life, in other words, BE HONEST and tell her exactly how you feel, and what she means to you. All people are equal, deserving of equal treatment. Not once did I mention skin color in my original post.

 

[yellowperil]

["attending college" doesn't mean "achieving equally". I don't generally (GENERALLY, Paige... ) consider a liberal arts major on the same level as an engineer, or a computer scientist, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if a great deal of guys delayed college simply to work in the tech field, or to pursue better job offers.

I agree, most of the high paying/prestige fields are still occupied mostly by men. But as a whole, the % of women going to college at all is higher than the % of men. This is a first ever since women were allowed into colleges/universities.

BTW, I agree with everything Ulfwald said in the last paragraph (starting with "Respect..."). I just disagree that a man should be a John Wayne figure to become an American male.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: yellowperil

BTW, I agree with everything Ulfwald said in the last paragraph (starting with "Respect..."). I just disagree that a man should be a John Wayne figure to become an American male.

What kind of male should the American male become, then?

 

[Ulfwald]

Not every man should be a John Wayne clone, but strive to be his own man. I just used him as an example because it is late and I have been studying for my server exam all night. Brain hurts too much to think.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Good post. Men everywhere could learn a few things from John Wayne. I personally keep chivalry alive the best I can.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

Yeah that pretty much sums up the 1950's for the ignorant. Have you ever looked beyond the stereotypes fed to you like pablum in the classroom? Perhaps someday you will learn that everything is not so binary as you seem to think it is.

 

[Nefrodite]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

Yeah that pretty much sums up the 1950's for the ignorant. Have you ever looked beyond the stereotypes fed to you like pablum in the classroom? Perhaps someday you will learn that everything is not so binary as you seem to think it is.

whats wrong with a binary post in a binary thread?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Let me put it this way: If you'd go around acting like John Wayne or Rambo or something did in their movies you'd be serving 10+ years or spend the rest of your life paying back those millions from the lawsuit.

"Why don't we send in 1 marine and let him take out Saddam and the whole Iraqi army, as well as anyone else in the neighbourhood?? It worked for Rambo/Jean-Claude van Damme/Schwarzenegger/the Borg didn't it??"

John Wayne would probably start crying and piss himself if a robber pointed a gun at him in real life, just like Stalone wouldn't survive 50 machine guns at point blank range. When they made Hannibal it didn't mean every single elder guy turned into a brains-eating maniac, only 98% of them.

 

[skace]

Maybe you just didn't know John Wayne as well as you thought?

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

WOW you can play the race card anywhere you really should be a civil rights lawyer

 

[MichaelD]

*sigh*

I have ranted about this before, and personally, I see nothing wrong with the "1950's America Mindset." I feel (and I stress the "I FEEL" part...my opinion is mine and you don't have to like it. ) that the 1950's were a better time. Post-war, booming economy...the good old days.

Unfortunately these days, unless the man is a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, etc and makes 100K+ a year, the family cannot survive on just the man's income; the wife must work too.

It's with a heavy heart and longing soul that I watch the Wally and the Beav shows and the movies from that era that show the man coming home from work with his suit and briefcase and the wife greeting him at the door with the apron around her waist and dinner on the stove. I wish I could live that way. That would work for me. The women back then knew their place and had no problem with it!!! They were HAPPY that the man worked hard, bought them a nice house in a nice neighborhood. The women WERE PROUD to stay home and keep a clean, tidy house and bake cookies for the neighbor kids. [disgust]Unlike women today that guffaw when asked "honey, can you please make me a sandwich?" women back then would bring it to you with a cold drink and a smile on their face.[/disgust]

If there are children involved, the man SHOULD take an active part in raising them. Helping them w/school, going to the PTA meetings, playing baseball on Saturday. My Father did NONE of that...but the man (should) make the money, cut the grass and squish the bugs. The woman should cook, clean and take care of most of the kids' needs and BE HOME when I get there. That is MHO and we all have one.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
*sigh*

I have ranted about this before, and personally, I see nothing wrong with the "1950's America Mindset." I feel (and I stress the "I FEEL" part...my opinion is mine and you don't have to like it. ) that the 1950's were a better time. Post-war, booming economy...the good old days.

Unfortunately these days, unless the man is a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, etc and makes 100K+ a year, the family cannot survive on just the man's income; the wife must work too.

It's with a heavy heart and longing soul that I watch the Wally and the Beav shows and the movies from that era that show the man coming home from work with his suit and briefcase and the wife greeting him at the door with the apron around her waist and dinner on the stove. I wish I could live that way. That would work for me. The women back then knew their place and had no problem with it!!! They were HAPPY that the man worked hard, bought them a nice house in a nice neighborhood. The women WERE PROUD to stay home and keep a clean, tidy house and bake cookies for the neighbor kids. [disgust]Unlike women today that guffaw when asked "honey, can you please make me a sandwich?" women back then would bring it to you with a cold drink and a smile on their face.[/disgust]

If there are children involved, the man SHOULD take an active part in raising them. Helping them w/school, going to the PTA meetings, playing baseball on Saturday. My Father did NONE of that...but the man (should) make the money, cut the grass and squish the bugs. The woman should cook, clean and take care of most of the kids' needs and BE HOME when I get there. That is MHO and we all have one.

This is really as much a stereotype of the 1950's as this is:

yea! back to the integrity of the 50s! down with those women and blackies! i won't let em tell me what to do!

There was actually a lot of things going on in the 1950's outside of both of these stereotypes. Women were already out of the home and working and had been since the 1940's when they were added to the workforce to take the place of the men that had entered the service. The major difference then was that they did stay home once children were born but trust me they were not all "June Cleavers" waiting to meet their man when he walked in the door. Good marriages then as now were partnerships with each half contributing to the good of the family. The funny thing is if you really watch some of the TV shows from that time period you will see that father did not always know best, he did in fact make mistakes, sometimes acted boorish, and sometimes ended up as the butt of the joke. There are numerous episodes of "Leave It To Beaver" that end with Ward realizing that perhaps the way his father had raised him was not necessrily the way he should raise his children. Unlike today the producers of these shows did not feel obligated to smack the viewer in the face with messages.

 

[MichaelD]

Yep, the man of the house was often a boor, often the butt of many jokes and often wrong. But at all times, he was the Man of the House! ....now go make me a sandwich.....

 

[Red Dawn]

The women back then knew their place and had no problem with it!!! They were HAPPY that the man worked hard, bought them a nice house in a nice neighborhood. The women WERE PROUD to stay home and keep a clean, tidy house and bake cookies for the neighbor kids. [disgust]Unlike women today that guffaw when asked "honey, can you please make me a sandwich?" women back then would bring it to you with a cold drink and a smile on their face

Well the women of this generation would still be willing to do that except they realize what a bunch of pussies the men of this generation are. They waste their money on Kiddie crap like the Xbox and sissy drinks like Smirnof's Malt Liqour, listen to effeminate music like DMB, drive girlyman cars made by the Japanese, cry that only the bad guys get the women, Post in forums like this one that they are so disatisfied with their lives, argue themselves into a frenzy over which is better,Intel or AMD,shave their chests and bikini lines and spend the better part of their evenings neffing up.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I have ranted about this before, and personally, I see nothing wrong with the "1950's America Mindset." I feel (and I stress the "I FEEL" part...my opinion is mine and you don't have to like it. ) that the 1950's were a better time. Post-war, booming economy...the good old days.

Hey, I loved your role in "Pleasantville".

I'm guessing that you didn't actually live in the 1950s. Neither did I, which is why I have a tendency to view this sort of back-then nostalgia with a lot of skepticism. Society changes, but people don't, and a lot of the images of the golden age society are likely just those -- images.

People talk about how simpler lives are better, but that's just a grass is greener syndrome. Don't want a high-crime hectic-bustle commuting nine-to-five paper-pushing job? Move to a rural community, grow vegetables in your own back yard, sit on your front porch in the evening sipping ice tea and chatting with your neighbors. There are places like that which still exist, but there are also things to be (depending on your perspective) given up by going there. You won't have the convenience of your local Best Buy/Wal-Mart/Blockbuster, you may not have DSL or cable (or even toll-free dialup!).

Your life can be how you want it to be, but you have to be willing to make the decisions and changes necessary.