What happens when you run a PhysX (NVIDIA) optimized game on a AMD video card?

[Artista]

I currently have a NVIDIA chiped video card. OS: Windows XP 64.

I have been playing Borderlands PC video game and from what I can tell it is highly optimized towards NVIDIA. The install process down loaded Microsoft Visual C++ packages, down loaded a NVIDIA driver pack, a PhysX pack and installed them all as well as something else I cant remember off the top of my head.

SO what if I or anyone else had a AMD based card instead of a NVIDIA based card?

Would the install process download nothing? (AMD optimized package?)

Would the FPS be as good?

The important question:

What about quality of graphics and game play related to physics?

Many the review sites seem to report on is FPS not even including screen shots anymore on some reviews.

 

[Lonyo]

Depends on the game.
Most PhysX games just run the PhysX on the CPU and only on the CPU. In those games it makes zero difference what GPU you have. Borderlands is one such game. PhysX on the CPU isn't optimised for anyone in particular, it carries NV branding because it's owned by NV, but it runs on both AMD and Intel processors.

In the few games which allow you to run PhysX on the GPU, you can enable more graphical effects by using the GPU to run the physics code, and this requires an NV GPU.
One or two games allow this extra code to run on the CPU (e.g. Mafia 2), but it typically runs slower than if a PhysX capable GPU is present.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Sounds like standard DX 9 and Nvidia driver updates.

From a Google search I gather there are no Physx-specific effects or visuals in Borderlands, and that hardware Physx is disabled by default.

So: no need for you to worry about other people not having as nice an experience as you do playing it.

 

[3DVagabond]

I currently have a NVIDIA chiped video card. OS: Windows XP 64.

I have been playing Borderlands PC video game and from what I can tell it is highly optimized towards NVIDIA. The install process down loaded Microsoft Visual C++ packages, down loaded a NVIDIA driver pack, a PhysX pack and installed them all as well as something else I cant remember off the top of my head.

SO what if I or anyone else had a AMD based card instead of a NVIDIA based card?

Would the install process download nothing? (AMD optimized package?)

Would the FPS be as good?

The important question:

What about quality of graphics and game play related to physics?

Many the review sites seem to report on is FPS not even including screen shots anymore on some reviews.

They also never/rarely show us frame rates with PhysX on. Strange, considering it's such a big selling feature for nVidia cards. Same thing with 3Dsurround and Eyefinity. If we're supposed to buy these cards for these features it would be nice to know how they perform using them.

As to your question, though. Typically even though the games are optimized for one brand, current cards are so powerful that they still run these games just fine. Within the feature set of the brand, of course.

 

[notty22]

Borderlands is similar to NFS SHift, I believe. You need physX installed on your system with both AMD and Nvidia cards, but there is 'basically' no performance or visual difference. There is no unique gpu coding.

These games pop up in help threads after people have used driver cleaner on their AMD systems, uninstalling the Nvidia physX package. Its needed with a couple games, as part of the game engine.

 

[Grooveriding]

Some games use third party physics technologies/libraries. Such as physx, havoc etc. These run on your cpu, not your video card. The physx label you see on a nvidia card box refers to physx that runs on the video card. There are less than 10 games that use that type of physx.

The physx you are seeing in borderlands is cpu and runs the same no matter what video card you use.

 

[Artista]

Some games use third party physics technologies/libraries. Such as physx, havoc etc. These run on your cpu, not your video card. The physx label you see on a nvidia card box refers to physx that runs on the video card. There are less than 10 games that use that type of physx.

The physx you are seeing in borderlands is cpu and runs the same no matter what video card you use.

Interesting what you and others wrote.

In Borderlands when you load it, it makes you stop as this robot comes on screen and bangs on a big NVIDIA logo trying to get it to light up. It fails then it comes on and says "NVIDIA" with a burst of lights. lol I cant even get past that screen, it makes you watch it. Captive audience.

So the CPU does the physics in most games. Funny with all the hype thrown around by one GPU brand or the another you wouldn't think that. :sneaky:

So that is why, among other things, you have to have a good matching performance wise, cpu, gpu, memory, etc. to get the performance level aimed at.

 

[Grooveriding]

Interesting what you and others wrote.

In Borderlands when you load it, it makes you stop as this robot comes on screen and bangs on a big NVIDIA logo trying to get it to light up. It fails then it comes on and says "NVIDIA" with a burst of lights. lol I cant even get past that screen, it makes you watch it. Captive audience.

So the CPU does the physics in most games. Funny with all the hype thrown around by one GPU brand or the another you wouldn't think that. :sneaky:

So that is why, among other things, you have to have a good matching performance wise, cpu, gpu, memory, etc. to get the performance level aimed at.

Those logos mean whatever company you are seeing branded paid the game developer $X number of dollars to have that logo put there and for their input on optimizing the game for their hardware.

I think physx is more noticeable because, as while other 3rd party physics libraries seem to be incorporated into the game, physx actually requires a separate install to process in the course of installing the game, making you aware of its presence.

Why it's like that, who knows ? :ninja:

 

[Wreckage]

There's at least 20 games that use GPU physx and over 300 that use CPU physx. How many DX11 games are there? seems like 5.

http://physxinfo.com/

 

[Lonyo]

There's at least 20 games that use GPU physx and over 300 that use CPU physx. How many DX11 games are there? seems like 5.

http://physxinfo.com/

I see 16.
There are 14 DX11 games, and there are THOUSANDS of games which use DirectX, not that it's relevant.

Nice to see that there is a site which keeps itself up to date with GPU PhysX games though, since the NV site doesn't seem to manage it. In fact, if you check the NV website of 14 things are listed as supporting hardware PhysX.

 

[Grooveriding]

I see 16.
There are 14 DX11 games, and there are THOUSANDS of games which use DirectX, not that it's relevant.

Nice to see that there is a site which keeps itself up to date with GPU PhysX games though, since the NV site doesn't seem to manage it. In fact, if you check the NV website of 14 things are listed as supporting hardware PhysX.

Two of the games are Hot Dance Party 1 & Hot Dance Party 2. Quality titles.

 

[notty22]

These on / off videos show you what your missing in physX games that use Nvidia gpu physX
GPU PhysX in Metro 2033 Comparison Video


Mafia II Apex PhysX On/Off Comparison Videos


New Video Shows off GPU PhysX in Warmonger

Batman and others.
NVIDIA PhysX Technology – Enabled vs. Disabled Comparison Video

 

[DaveSimmons]

^ to be more accurate, that's what you're missing in those specific games.

It's like DirectX 9 vs. 10 visuals though, just because one game uses GPU Physx to do something (and skips doing it for software Physx) does not mean the game needed to be coded that way. Maybe it did, or maybe they accepted a suitcase full of cash to cripple the non-GPU version.

 

[WelshBloke]

There's at least 20 games that use GPU physx and over 300 that use CPU physx. How many DX11 games are there? seems like 5.

http://physxinfo.com/

I didnt remember UT3 having hardware physX :hmm:

 

[Grooveriding]

I didnt remember UT3 having hardware physX :hmm:

It did, in one level...

The other 90% of the game didn't though. So 15 and 1/10th of a game. ()

 

[wuliheron]

These on / off videos show you what your missing in physX games that use Nvidia gpu physX
GPU PhysX in Metro 2033 Comparison Video

Batman is supposed to be one of the best examples of physx used in a game, but Metro recommends at least a core i7 and 8gb of ram for running physx! Not exactly what I'd call representative of the technology. More like a demonstration of what is possible on an expensive rig.

 

[toyota]

It did, in one level...

The other 90% of the game didn't though. So 15 and 1/10th of a game. ()

the standard game had no hardware physx levels at all. it was an optional download pack that included a few hardware physx maps that were more of a tech demo than anything else. basically it just added different laughable looking effects to a few regular maps and turned them into almost a slide show.

 

[WelshBloke]

the standard game had no hardware physx levels at all. it was an optional download that included a few hardware physx maps that were more of a tech demo than anything else. basically it just added different laughable looking effects to a few regular maps and turned them into almost a slide show.

Ahhh thats why I dont remember it then, although I must admit to trying to wipe that entire game from my memory

 

[Artista]

Ahhh thats why I dont remember it then, although I must admit to trying to wipe that entire game from my memory

I never played it.

I wish they would take the original UT, add in custom user map maps (via a contest or something) and use the latest game engine and Physics.

There are still original UT servers out there.

In regards to a gpu I guess getting like a 560Ti would pretty much cover all the games out there. Seems though amd cards have a slight edge except for physX stuff.

Some of this is starting to make sense.

 

[Wreckage]

It did, in one level...

The other 90% of the game didn't though. So 15 and 1/10th of a game. ()

3 maps actually.

If you are going to troll at least fact check. :thumbsdown:

FEATURES:

* Three new levels of environmental destruction with true gameplay impact!
o Under Instant Action->Deathmatch choose Heat Ray PhysX, or got to: Instant Action->Capture The Flag and choose either Tornado PhysX or LightHouse PhysX.
* Full multiplayer capabilities:
o Death Match: Map Heatray PhysX, Server NVIDIA PhysX Mod
o Capture The Flag: Map Tornado PhysX, Server NVIDIA PhysX Mod
o Capture The Flag: Map Lighthouse PhysX, Server NVIDIA PhysX Mod
* Maximum-Impact PhysX using the full capabilities of hardware-accelerated physics
* Destructible walls, floors, walkways and rooftops
* New weapons which can pull debris towads the target (Lighthouse)
* An amazing Tornado which both destroys the battlefield as the game progresses and pulls weapon projectiles into it's deadly vortex
* Many more amazing new game play features, specially tuned for NVIDIA PhysX.

No need for the inflammatory rhetoric. State your case based on facts and keep it civil.

Re: "If you are going to troll at least fact check. :thumbsdown:"

Moderator Idontcare

 

[Artista]

What about quality of the video between the NVIDIA base card and RADEON based cards?

The new 560Ti is interesting.

I remember when ATI was lagging and NVIDIA was king, specially related to drivers.

I still wonder if, FPS aside, what the total game play experience is on both AMD and Nvidia based cards on average, comparing all modern day games or those released in the last five years?

The funny thing is though review sites seem to talk about FPS, not quality much and they dont mention the drivers for either brand as having major problems. Perhaps they are so good at building and tweaking its doesnt happen with them? (Them for one being anandtech review site)

 

[DaveSimmons]

> What about quality of the video between the NVIDIA base card and RADEON based cards?

Both are about the same. Someone with an nvidia axe to grind will probably mention that current AMD drivers have defaults set to prefer speed / FPS over perfect image quality but you can adjust that in the AMD control panel.

Both have had driver glitches with fan control (nvidia), crossfire and SLI scaling (both), random games running slowly or with image glitches (both).

 

[Arkadrel]

@Artista you seem to be fishing for negative remarks of amd cards.

truth is... Havoc physic is much more used than nvidia physx, like 300+ games vs 16 games, and when you turn on the gpu physx your fps drops ALOT. That is why alot of people call physx a sales gimmick, it makes nice youtube videos of a few games, and hopefully makes it easier for nvidia to sell grafics cards.


What about quality of the video between the NVIDIA base card and RADEON based cards?

nvidia has a tiny bit better IQ in 3D, amd has much better 2D IQ (go amd for HTPC)

 

[aka1nas]

@Artista you seem to be fishing for negative remarks of amd cards.

truth is... Havoc physic is much more used than nvidia physx, like 300+ games vs 16 games, and when you turn on the gpu physx your fps drops ALOT. That is why alot of people call physx a sales gimmick, it makes nice youtube videos of a few games, and hopefully makes it easier for nvidia to sell grafics cards.


What about quality of the video between the NVIDIA base card and RADEON based cards?

nvidia has a tiny bit better IQ in 3D, amd has much better 2D IQ (go amd for HTPC)

Why would you compare the number of Havok games to the number of hardware-only PhysX games rather than the 272 total games that use the PhysX API (from the Physxinfo.com site linked previously)? Havok has been around longer and has more games that have integrated it, there's no reason to lie about the statistics.

 

[WelshBloke]

Why would you compare the number of Havok games to the number of hardware-only PhysX games rather than the 272 total games that use the PhysX API (from the Physxinfo.com site linked previously)? Havok has been around longer and has more games that have integrated it, there's no reason to lie about the statistics.

Actually in the context of this debate (about which card would run them better) you should lump in the non hardware accelerated physx games with the havok games and compare them to the hardware physx ones.

So about 600:16