What happens to nvidia?

[OILFIELDTRASH]

What kind of affect does the release of 6XXX series have on nvidia? After the beating they have taken due to the early release and success of the 5XXX series I'm sure they aren't happy to know it's happening again with the 6 series. I'm not sure what it costs to make the gtx 4 series but they can't be making much selling them much cheaper than the competition. Are they gonna survive this or could nvidia become what amd CPU division have become?

Keep it civil. No reason for trolling. At this point it's become a valid discussion. The economy has affected everyone and How long can a company survive today when they make no money?

 

[Lonyo]

They can't become what AMDs CPU division is, assuming you mean catering towards the lower end, because there will be less and less low end in the GPU market going forwards.

NV are already diversifying their product line and looking into new markets, markets AMD either aren't tackling or have no reasonable hope to tackle in the short or medium term. They aren't sitting around expecting discrete graphics to be their primary focus and the only way they make money.

 

[Leyawiin]

If there is a comparison between them and AMD its with the Phenom II series. They'll look for an opening and take advantage of it to tide them over. Eventually they'll have a game changing architecture that will push them solidly past AMD (ATI) again. Everything cycles and I doubt they'll be permanently relegated to second tier forever. As far as financials, they lost money last quarter (or was it two?). I believe they still have well over a billion in reserve. AMD has consistently lost money for years.

 

[Genx87]

AMD has sruvived the better part of 2 decades without turning much of a profit.

But Nvidia is branching out and tackling high profit markets. I would first wait and see what 6.xxx really offers and what NVs answer is before declaring Nvidia dead. Right now they have the fastest single GPU solution out there and have since April. It may be they offer a dual GPU solution to retain the single card crown.

 

[GaiaHunter]

It may be they offer a dual GPU solution to retain the single card crown.

But since the single card crown belongs to AMD, NVIDIA can't retain it.

 

[Grooveriding]

I don't believe they will go anywhere, as others have said they have cash in the bank and they make money in other markets beyond the pc gaming consumer.

It certainly looks like they have dropped the ball on the DX11 market and have lost it to AMD. With AMD's 6 series coming it's basically the nail in the coffin for nvidia on DX11 hardware. Nvidia will still only have their 4XX series, which only caught them up to performance parity with AMD's 5XXX series.

AMD's 6 series is going to put nvidia behind again and they are going back to a similar situation when they only had the GTX 280/260 and were trying to compete against the higher performance of 5870/5850.

They'll still sell cards. It doesn't look like they are selling many now and likely less once the 6 series comes, but there will always be buyers who are either uninformed/misinformed/don't care about having the fastest card in their price bracket and will buy something else.

They certainly are not going anywhere though. I'm sure they are even more determined than ever to get back on the ball and not repeat whatever internal mistakes led to the mess they've had this round.

Having heard their company speak at events, they certainly take a lot of pride in being the best in the market. They are currently falling short of that mark and I'm sure getting back into that position is a key goal.

 

[Madcatatlas]

I was gonna quote him and say "to attain the single card crown".. but you beat me to it. If your going to trough the trouble of saying Nvidia has the single GPU crown, you should do the same for the sing CARD.

But to each his own.

Nvidia will blossom again, like they have before. AMD and ATI, and even Intel have all come back from ...being shit/crap (i hope these are ok words, i dont mean to "cuss" )

 

[JAG87]

What kind of affect does the release of 6XXX series have on nvidia? After the beating they have taken due to the early release and success of the 5XXX series I'm sure they aren't happy to know it's happening again with the 6 series. I'm not sure what it costs to make the gtx 4 series but they can't be making much selling them much cheaper than the competition. Are they gonna survive this or could nvidia become what amd CPU division have become?

Keep it civil. No reason for trolling. At this point it's become a valid discussion. The economy has affected everyone and How long can a company survive today when they make no money?

How can you ask for no trolling when you're instigating yourself. And how can you be so naive? You are either ignorant or in denial if you think AMD could even put a dent in nvidia's profits with Radeon cards.

Nvidia has profit margins with quadro and tesla cards that AMD can only dream of. A market that AMD can't even touch, nvidia has no competition at the moment except for Intel in this arena.

You have to look at the big picture.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-fermi-home.html
Up to $5000 a piece.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html
I don't even know how much they cost, but you certainly can't buy one.

Plenty of huge corporations purchase these. All you're focusing on is what you are interested in, the small ludic gaming market which isn't even 30% of their profits. And even there they are doing just fine, as you can clearly see Fermi cards sell well.

If anything you should be thankful that AMD is early to the game with a good competitive end user gaming product, because if they kept releasing products like R600 they probably wouldn't exist by now. The two companies compete but they aren't the same.

 

[GaiaHunter]

How can you ask for no trolling when you're instigating yourself. And how can you be so naive? You are either ignorant or in denial if you think AMD could even put a dent in nvidia's profits with Radeon cards.

Nvidia has profit margins with quadro and tesla cards that AMD can only dream of. A market that AMD can't even touch, nvidia has no competition at the moment except for Intel in this arena.

You have to look at the big picture.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-fermi-home.html
Up to $5000 a piece.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html
I don't even know how much they cost, but you certainly can't buy one.

Plenty of huge corporations purchase these. All you're focusing on is what you are interested in, the small ludic gaming market which isn't even 30% of their profits. And even there they are doing just fine, as you can clearly see Fermi cards sell well.

If anything you should be thankful that AMD is early to the game with a good competitive end user gaming product, because if they kept releasing products like R600 they probably wouldn't exist by now. The two companies compete but they aren't the same.

I don't know why NVIDIA even bother releasing GPUs for gaming...

Of course all this talk how NVIDIA profits aren't on this "small ludic gaming market" and are only 30%, forgets to clarify how much was NVIDIA making before on both GPU markets and professional markets and how much has the GPGPU market grown.

If I made 5000 in market A, 3000 in market B and 2000 in other markets for a total of 10000 last year, but now I'm making 2000 in Market A, 3000 in Market B and 1000 in other markets for a total of 6000; it is true that market A only represents 33% of my profits and market B 50% but market B didn't grow anything in absolute terms, simply the other markets shrank (and we know that, for example, the NVIDIA chipset business is dead).

But I believe OILFIELDTRASH is more interested in "Is NVIDIA going to survive and keep releasing GPUs "for this small ludic market"?"

 

[Genx87]

I don't know why NVIDIA even bother releasing GPUs for gaming...

Of course all this talk how NVIDIA profits aren't on this "small ludic gaming market" and are only 30% forgets to clarify how much was NVIDIA making before on both GPU markets and professional markets and how much has the GPGPU market grown.

If I made 5000 in market A, 3000 in market B and 2000 in other markets for a total of 10000 last year, but now I'm making 2000 in Market A, 3000 in Market B and 1000 in other markets for a total of 6000; it is true that market A only represents 33% of my profits and market B 50% but market B didn't grow anything.

But I believe OILFIELDTRASH is more interested in "Is NVIDIA going to survive and keep releasing GPUs "for this small ludic market"?"

They will until it isnt profitable to do so.

 

[Dribble]

It's really only mid-high end consumer desktop graphics cards that nvidia has any chance of loosing out badly to amd in, and while they matter, they don't matter that much.

This winters big profit area for nvidia I expect will be laptops. They now have a complete 4 series line-up there, and optimus which basically means if it's an intel laptop with a discrete gpu (which these days is a lot of them) it'll have nvidia inside. That's a lot of laptops.

 

[Rifter]

How can you ask for no trolling when you're instigating yourself. And how can you be so naive? You are either ignorant or in denial if you think AMD could even put a dent in nvidia's profits with Radeon cards.

Nvidia has profit margins with quadro and tesla cards that AMD can only dream of. A market that AMD can't even touch, nvidia has no competition at the moment except for Intel in this arena.

You have to look at the big picture.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-fermi-home.html
Up to $5000 a piece.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html
I don't even know how much they cost, but you certainly can't buy one.

Plenty of huge corporations purchase these. All you're focusing on is what you are interested in, the small ludic gaming market which isn't even 30% of their profits. And even there they are doing just fine, as you can clearly see Fermi cards sell well.

If anything you should be thankful that AMD is early to the game with a good competitive end user gaming product, because if they kept releasing products like R600 they probably wouldn't exist by now. The two companies compete but they aren't the same.

This x2, Op is trolling but asking for no trolling?

I agree that Nvidia is making enough money on the high end(quadro/tesla) cards that gaming is not there biggest market.

They could get hammered into oblivion in the gaming market and just bail and still do fine, they would lose money but i dont think it would be near enough to bankrupt them. Look at AMD, they have been loosing money or not making much each year for 20 years and are still around.

As to the single GPU or card or whatever and which is better its simple.

Nvidia has the fastest single GPU solution, the 480 clearly beats the 5870.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/162?vs=158

And the 5970 clearly beats the 480 for the single CARD crown.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/165?vs=158

 

[SlowSpyder]

How can you ask for no trolling when you're instigating yourself. And how can you be so naive? You are either ignorant or in denial if you think AMD could even put a dent in nvidia's profits with Radeon cards.

Nvidia has profit margins with quadro and tesla cards that AMD can only dream of. A market that AMD can't even touch, nvidia has no competition at the moment except for Intel in this arena.

You have to look at the big picture.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro-fermi-home.html
Up to $5000 a piece.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html
I don't even know how much they cost, but you certainly can't buy one.

Plenty of huge corporations purchase these. All you're focusing on is what you are interested in, the small ludic gaming market which isn't even 30% of their profits. And even there they are doing just fine, as you can clearly see Fermi cards sell well.

If anything you should be thankful that AMD is early to the game with a good competitive end user gaming product, because if they kept releasing products like R600 they probably wouldn't exist by now. The two companies compete but they aren't the same.

I think they could indeed put a dent in Nvidia's profits... didn't Nvidia lose money last quarter? They were on a roll for quite a while, the 8 series, the 8 series again... I mean 9 series. Even in the Radeon 4xxx days, if I remember right Nvidia still continued to make money quarter after quarter. But they've had a few bad quarters now. It's not just AMD being very competitve, but it's also their mobile GPU debacle, and maybe even the economy.

You are absolutely correct about Nvidia making a ton of money from their professional parts and HPC parts. Nvidia has that on lock down almost.

But, a lot of their revenue does come from the consumer space, and AMD can certainly put a dent in that.

As for the OP, I don't think anything really happens. Nvidia gets in a price war to keep moving chips, they make less money in the consumer space but continue to reach out to other markets and make big money in the professional space.

 

[cbn]

Part of me would like to see a closed source Nvidia smartbook/netbook. (similar to Apple)

Maybe that would let them implement Physx to the fullest?

 

[GaiaHunter]

I agree that Nvidia is making enough money on the high end(quadro/tesla) cards that gaming is not there biggest market.

They could get hammered into oblivion in the gaming market and just bail and still do fine, they would lose money but i dont think it would be near enough to bankrupt them. Look at AMD, they have been loosing money or not making much each year for 20 years and are still around.

But I bet the majority of the people that post in and read these forums and bought an AMD/ATI and/or a NVIDIA GPU in the last decade or so, did it for gaming and in the near future will do so again to get better performance/IQ out of their games.

For the company it might not be decisive or relevant (although I doubt it isn't) but for the guys that buy GPUs to play games it is.

But anyway lets see what the 6000 series looks like and if NVIDIA can pull a surprise.

 

[JAG87]

I think they could indeed put a dent in Nvidia's profits... didn't Nvidia lose money last quarter? They were on a roll for quite a while, the 8 series, the 8 series again... I mean 9 series. Even in the Radeon 4xxx days, if I remember right Nvidia still continued to make money quarter after quarter. But they've had a few bad quarters now. It's not just AMD being very competitve, but it's also their mobile GPU debacle, and maybe even the economy.

You are absolutely correct about Nvidia making a ton of money from their professional parts and HPC parts. Nvidia has that on lock down almost.

But, a lot of their revenue does come from the consumer space, and AMD can certainly put a dent in that.

As for the OP, I don't think anything really happens. Nvidia gets in a price war to keep moving chips, they make less money in the consumer space but continue to reach out to other markets and make big money in the professional space.

It has nothing to do with AMD. They lost money because they fell behind schedule with Fermi. R&D cost goes up, you still have to pay your employees, but no new product out. You do the math. That's where their bad quarters come from.

 

[Rifter]

But I bet the majority of the people that post in and read these forums and bought an AMD/ATI and/or a NVIDIA GPU in the last decade or so, did it for gaming and in the near future will do so again to get better performance/IQ out of their games.

For the company it might not be decisive or relevant (although I doubt it isn't) but for the guys that buy GPUs to play games it is.

But anyway lets see what the 6000 series looks like and if NVIDIA can pull a surprise.

I never said the majority of the people that post here arnt interested only in the gaming GPU's, they obviously are, its a computer tech forum not a advanced graphics programming/editing forum.

However the OP makes clear statements about Nvidia the COMPANY surviving, not just the gaming division.

Keep it civil. No reason for trolling. At this point it's become a valid discussion. The economy has affected everyone and How long can a company survive today when they make no money?

 

[Dribble]

It has nothing to do with AMD. They lost money because they fell behind schedule with Fermi. R&D cost goes up, you still have to pay your employees, but no new product out. You do the math. That's where their bad quarters come from.

Actually they lost money last quarter because of a payout of $193 million for the dodgy notebook gpu's, if it hadn't been for that one off cost they would have made money.

 

[SlowSpyder]

It has nothing to do with AMD. They lost money because they fell behind schedule with Fermi. R&D cost goes up, you still have to pay your employees, but no new product out. You do the math. That's where their bad quarters come from.

You don't think that fierce competition from AMD in the video card market didn't have anything to do with it? It was just Fermi's delay? When Fermi came out it had a very 'rushed' feel to it, like the 2900XT. But Nvidia had to get something out to compete since AMD had their 5xxx series out, so Fermi comes out and is less then polished.

I think Fermi's 'meh' reception and sales are very much related to AMD.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Actually they lost money last quarter because of a payout of $193 million for the dodgy notebook gpu's, if it hadn't been for that one off cost they would have made money.

But he said AMD won't make a dent in Nvidia's profits. I think a competitor that appears to be out maneuvering Nvidia in one of their big revenue areas and is putting up strong competition will in fact have an impact on their profits.

I'm not saying Nvidia is going anywhere. I'm not saying that Nvidia can't make money. But I don't know how someone can say AMD won't have any effect on Nvidia's bottom line.

 

[Kenmitch]

I'm sure at some point in time if they needed the money they could always do the following....Fake press release

After extensive in house testing and hundreds of man hours it's finaly here. PhysX and Cuda for all. Our engineers have once again worked their magic. Not only can you use our Video card products to meet all your needs, now you can use them side by side with both integrated and dedicated graphic cards such as ATI for example. Were really proud of our engineers and driver teams for making this happen for the benefit of all those interested in expanding both your gaming and computing needs. Our team worked very hard to make this happen for both our current and future customers!

Of course they would put a little * thing with some kinda disclaimer min GTX ??? required

 

[JAG87]

Actually they lost money last quarter because of a payout of $193 million for the dodgy notebook gpu's, if it hadn't been for that one off cost they would have made money.

You're also correct.

You don't think that fierce competition from AMD in the video card market didn't have anything to do with it? It was just Fermi's delay? When Fermi came out it had a very 'rushed' feel to it, like the 2900XT. But Nvidia had to get something out to compete since AMD had their 5xxx series out, so Fermi comes out and is less then polished.

I think Fermi's 'meh' reception and sales are very much related to AMD.

No. Once again it has nothing to do with AMD. It is a combination of falling behind schedule and what Dribble said above. Your shareholders aren't too happy when you are dishing out money and not taking any to the bank. That's why Fermi was rushed, not because AMD was putting pressure on them.

With their early release of the HD5000 series, AMD only succeeds in capturing business from a small group of enthusiasts, there aren't many people that plop hundreds of dollars on a new GPU when it comes out. And many of these people are the same people that maybe sold their 5870 and bought a 480 when Fermi came out, simply because it was "faster". That's not a market that brings profit. It's just a small market to make GPU nut cases like us from the video forum get aroused. That's it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

That's not a market that brings profit. It's just a small market to make GPU nut cases like us from the video forum get aroused. That's it.

Why bother then?

 

[SlowSpyder]

With their early release of the HD5000 series, AMD only succeeds in capturing business from a small group of enthusiasts, there aren't many people that plop hundreds of dollars on a new GPU when it comes out. And many of these people are the same people that maybe sold their 5870 and bought a 480 when Fermi came out, simply because it was "faster". That's not a market that brings profit. It's just a small market to make GPU nut cases like us from the video forum get aroused. That's it.

Nvidia also had to get the 8 series successor out, that was the 9 series. They were able to put a different sticker on the card and sell it as something new because AMD wasn't competitive. When AMD had their 5 series out, Nvidia had to get Fermi out to answer them... they couldn't just rebadge the GTX285 as a 485. AMD's strong competition forced their hand, they couldn't just rebadge or shrink the GTX285 to 40nm and call it a successor.

And I'm not talking about the 5870. You said 'with Radeon cards' not the 5870. Right now AMD has their entire line up of DX11 cards, low end parts that OEM's use. Not just enthusiast level parts. Nvidia is still working on even getting a low end DX11 part to the market.

 

[OCGuy]

Oh look, this thread again.

I thought only the 6770 launch was imminent?