What happened to Nano-ITX and Pico-ITX?

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Mini-ITX followed a pretty clear lifecycle. It started out as VIA's baby, but eventually Intel and other companies picked it up and it slowly has become the new mATX.

Somewhere in the middle of all that, Nano- and Pico-ITX were announced and, for some reason, I got the impression that the same thing would eventually happen to them. But that doesn't seem to be playing out. You can't find either one for less than $200 now, and the choices are very limited, with VIA and obscure embedded-oriented companies still dominating.

Obviously, due to size, power, and heat issues, we may never see mainstream CPUs appear on these tiny form factor boards. But Atom could at least be viable. Wouldn't a $100 Pico-ITX Pine Trail board with lots of I/O make an amazing router/file server?

 

[Fayd]

there's not much demand.

outside of the enthusiast community (which is VERY Small), there's not enough demand to sustain a serious company making a pico-itx server board.

besides, the space savings you have from it are offsetted by the amount of space the harddrives take. so...

there are pico-itx routers, though. i forget what the company name is.

 

[cbn]

Why do you want Pico and Nano ITX?

Are the boards and corresponding chipsets more power efficient with Atom based processors that what Mini-ITX boards typically offer?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Why do you want Pico and Nano ITX?

I'm going to build a router/NAS sometime and am researching my options. The smaller I can make it, the better. (I will likely make a custom case.)

I just think miniaturization is awesome, and I live in a smallish apartment as well.

Are the boards and corresponding chipsets more power efficient with Atom based processors that what Mini-ITX boards typically offer?

I haven't really done hard research on it, but my general impression (just from reading) has been that Via's CPUs are generally slower than Atoms. They probably use similar or slightly less power -- I'm not exactly sure about that either. I'd be okay with a Via chip, but the new Pine Trail Atoms seem so nice that it'd be even better if there was a Nano/Pico board using them. I just have a bit more confidence in Intel's ability to make an excellent product than I do in Via's. But I'd settle for a Via if it offered the features I need at a tiny form factor and a reasonable price.

 

[cbn]

I'm going to build a router/NAS sometime and am researching my options. The smaller I can make it, the better. (I will likely make a custom case.)

I just think miniaturization is awesome, and I live in a smallish apartment as well.

I just looked up the size of these form factors you mentioned. http://www.via.com.tw/en/initiatives/spearhead/pico-itx/

25 to 50% the size of Mini-ITX is an impressive reduction.

Hmmm....Wouldn't it be difficult to place a good number of SATA ports on something that small. AFAIK, Most consumer/enthusiast Mini-ITX boards come with 4 SATA ports.

 

[cbn]

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/embedded/mserv/s2100/

It looks like this kit comes with a board with two SATA ports.

 

[Bateluer]

But Atom could at least be viable. Wouldn't a $100 Pico-ITX Pine Trail board with lots of I/O make an amazing router/file server?

Because it became mostly pointless. The sub-200 dollar Atom-powered net-top devices pretty much own that market, and its a very small market.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-037-_-Product

What kind of I/O did you need on a router/file server? Ethernet, USB, possible E-SATA, that's really it.

 

[MJinZ]

Aren't these pointless, because you might as well get something integrated into a monitor right?

 

[PCTC2]

I've always looked at Via Pico-ITX and some 3.5" form-factor boards. I've always wanted to make a really small box as a headless low-powered server.

VIA still has pico-ITX boards with 1GHz C7 processors and 1.2GHz Nano and Intel OEMs have 3.5" form-factor boards.

 

[cbn]

How about something like this?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

How about something like this?

Where's the fun in that? I like building stuff.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

What kind of I/O did you need on a router/file server? Ethernet, USB, possible E-SATA, that's really it.

2x ethernet, with at least one being gigabit. Wifi and at least 4 SATA. It's hard to even find a Mini-ITX board that can possibly meet these requirements without resorting to USB. Anything smaller seems to be basically impossible right now.

Aren't these pointless, because you might as well get something integrated into a monitor right?

Who wants a server built into a monitor? And how would I put 4+ hard drives into a monitor?

 

[Bateluer]

2x ethernet, with at least one being gigabit. Wifi and at least 4 SATA. It's hard to even find a Mini-ITX board that can possibly meet these requirements without resorting to USB. Anything smaller seems to be basically impossible right now.

For the kind of server you'd likely be building with these things, do you really need 2x Gigabit ethernet? Since several Mini-ITX boards offer PCI or PCIe slots, you could easily add additional ethernet or sata cables.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

For the kind of server you'd likely be building with these things, do you really need 2x Gigabit ethernet? Since several Mini-ITX boards offer PCI or PCIe slots, you could easily add additional ethernet or sata cables.

I realize this. Getting all of the features I need on a mini itx is not the problem. It would just be nice to find something smaller.

 

[cbn]

I realize this. Getting all of the features I need on a mini itx is not the problem. It would just be nice to find something smaller.

I agree smaller would be nice.

Hmmm.....I don't know very much about Oaktrail but could we expect to see that or something similar eventually packaged in Nano ITX? In fact, depending on Oaktrails power usage would it even be possible to package a small Lithium Poly battery inside the case? Put a decent touchscreen on the outside and I think it comes out to be roughly a 7" Windows tablet.

I just wonder if there would be enough ports and connections? For example, being able to plug a 7" touchscreen Tablet into a 1080p Monitor or TV (among other things) would seem pretty ideal to me.

 

[Zap]

The reason that mini ITX "made it" is because you can just about build a normal computer out of it.

 

[cbn]

The reason that mini ITX "made it" is because you can just about build a normal computer out of it.

Yep, it is tough for me to figure out what the bare minimum of ports and slots that would be needed for a standalone x86 computer.

With Atom/NG-ION or Ontario I think I would have no problem getting ride of the PCI-E x16 slot. I think I could live with only two SATA ports. I don't know how many USB I would need?

Furthermore, Will these future CPUs and GPUs actually be powerful enough to run Adobe CS smoothly? (I have never used those programs before). If the hardware is too weak most people would probably just want an Android Tablet instead.

 

[Zap]

With Atom/NG-ION or Ontario
...
Furthermore, Will these future CPUs and GPUs actually be powerful enough to run Adobe CS smoothly?

With ITX you don't have to worry about that. ITX does not automatically mean "underpowered." You can get socket 1156 Core i7 on ITX, which is pretty darn high end for any size computer.

 

[cbn]

With ITX you don't have to worry about that. ITX does not automatically mean "underpowered." You can get socket 1156 Core i7 on ITX, which is pretty darn high end for any size computer.

Zap,

What kind of mainboard and PSU connections would I need to add a lithium battery to mini-itx?

For example, something like this Zotac Mag seems to have plenty of room for a battery inside the case.

With a fairly large battery I would imagine something stronger than atom could be used a processor if I wanted to use the device "on the go" with a touchscreen.

 

[Zap]

You have just described a tablet PC.