What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
From CNN

On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

Hmmm. Whether it is efficient now or not is maybe not the point. How will we get to clean coal if we don't start somewhere first? The Germans have an operating (experimental) clean coal plant. Are we not as good as them?

? A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

I don't feel sorry for Spielberg & Co.

? $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

Snooze you lose. Transition on FEB 17, move passed GO and save $650 million!

? $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

This would save/create jobs if the boat is built in the USA, would it not? Ditto for the F22 Raptor production.

? $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

The current building is good enough for now. We can save $448 million.

? $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

See above. Fvck em.

? $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

How about rules that all drivers of public vehicles must cease from idling their engines for long periods of time?

When the Volt becomes available, perhaps the government should buy those?

I mean, I like the direction they want to go with this but now is not the time. Perhaps after some debe has been paid off?


? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

CDC are good folks. Why not spend this?

? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

Waste disposal? What about recycling? Sounds like pork to me, but if it is recycling, then perhaps I could stand behind it.

? $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

What about our water system? Metro? What about half of the fire hydrants being broken in NW? I think there are higher priorities, but doesn't the DC government collect enough in taxes to think about funding this on their own?

? $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

I am all for culture but this can wait.

? $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

Might be necessary. An accurate counting is a good thing.

? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

Nope. We've had enough of this.

? $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

This can wait. Colleges should raise their own money.

? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

Fvck that!

? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

? $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

? $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

? $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

? $500 million for state and local fire stations.

? $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

? $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

? $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

? $850 million for Amtrak.

? $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

? $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The movie film one is good.

Screw the converter boxes.

Homeland damn 450 for a building and then half that again for furniture? They must have gold leaf toilet seats.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
If someone is better at math then I then please check my figures but that looks to be close to 200 billion of the 900 billion package that the GOP wants to reject. I don't think the Dems and the GOP are very close to an endorsed package.

The number that sticks out the most to me is:

? $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

That is a huge number and I doubt there is any plan in place to see how it would be spent. I guess maybe the same could be said for most of those proposed allocations... :roll:
 

GTKeeper

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,118
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
The movie film one is good.

Screw the converter boxes.

Homeland damn 450 for a building and then half that again for furniture? They must have gold leaf toilet seats.

Maybe they are getting the same company that Thain used to buy his 30k toilet.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
When listening to Sam Brownback speak yesterday he said he isn't necessarily against all of these items but that they should be debated separately and need not be included in one giant bill. Just something to keep in mind when you analyze it one-by-one like that.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,837
4,939
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.

Based on what? Your theory?
 

bbdub333

Senior member
Aug 21, 2007
684
0
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
From CNN

On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

Hmmm. Whether it is efficient now or not is maybe not the point. How will we get to clean coal if we don't start somewhere first? The Germans have an operating (experimental) clean coal plant. Are we not as good as them?

Will this provide $2 billion worth of economic stimulus? I doubt it. Sounds more like a pet project for Obama's home state.

? A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Fvck Hollywood!

? $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

Snooze you lose. Transition on FEB 17, move passed GO and save $650 million!

? $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

This would save/create jobs if the boat is built in the USA, would it not? Ditto for the F22 Raptor production.

This is just allocating funds for the design. How many jobs will that create? How long will it take to design? How long after that will it take to begin production? This is hardly going to provide any meaningful stimulus.

? $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

The current building is good enough for now. We can save $448 million.

? $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

See above. Fvck em.

? $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

How about rules that all drivers of public vehicles must cease from idling their engines for long periods of time?

When the Volt becomes available, perhaps the government should buy those?

I mean, I like the direction they want to go with this but now is not the time. Perhaps after some debe has been paid off?

Agreed.

? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

CDC are good folks. Why not spend this?

That is not the mentality we need when talking about an economic stimulus package that is meant to save us from a deep(er) recession. There are plenty of "They are good folks", but just because they are good doesn't mean we should give them hundreds of millions of dollars. How will this provide any economic stimulus? How is this not simply a liberal agenda item?


The vast majority of the items are simply government spending on government. Do we need more government jobs? How would this provide stimulus? If that were the case, then why nto spend $900 Billion on the wars? We'd have a tremendous result, and most of the money being spent on US contractors would provide a huge economic stimulus... RIGHT??? (sarcasm)
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
Earmarked Pork

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
Depends on what computers are going in and will it include staffing

$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
Does not belong in this bill

$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
Same as above

$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
Construction work - good

$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
Earmarked Pork

$500 million for state and local fire stations.
Equipment - Good / Paint bad - that amouint is not going to build very many stations

$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
Does not belon in this bill - US Forestry Service

$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
Earmark Pork

$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
Earmarked Pork

$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
Same as above - GSA Maintenence is not doing their job

$850 million for Amtrak
As long as used for capital expenses - engines, cars, new track. Not for regular maintenance

$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
Earmark pork - belongs in EPA budget

$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
Earmark pork - DOD & FBI facilites work great - also there are private facilities in place

$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
Does not belong in this bill
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,888
2,788
136
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: Genx87
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.

Based on what? Your theory?

No, math, ever heard of it?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,060
45,003
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: Genx87
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.

Based on what? Your theory?

No, math, ever heard of it?


Without more info about their fleet disposition/condition it is impossible to make that conclusion.

The CTA just leased (to own) 150 new articulated diesel-electric hybrids from New Flyer and the estimates are that by taking ancient buses out of the fleet the savings will pay back the contract in less than 15 years. Should oil also go up appreciably anytime within their service life that will be reduced signifigantly. They also hold 50% more passengers.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: OrByte
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?

That belongs in the general budget.
The FBI is already getting paid.

They are not hiring new agents and if they did, reoccuring expenses does not belong here.

Personal expenses should be kept out of this for every department.

 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I absolutely love the Repuglican's sudden concern over fiscal responsibility. It's as if they hadn't encouraged the country to lever up to the hilt over the last 8 years. Hey, wasn't the national debt at 6tr before bush and is now almost 12tr?

Who approved that? Ohh wait, almost all under the Repuglicans!

These fuckers are only pandering further, it's disgusting to think that they spend like drunken sailors when they want to spend, but when somebody else does, they're suddenly Scrooge.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.

when you go from 6 mpg to 10, it actually makes a pretty big difference. for things that move as much as buses, it coudl accumulate over time.


of course the better option would have been to just use natural gas.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
Earmarked Pork

$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
Depends on what computers are going in and will it include staffing

$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
Does not belong in this bill

$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
Same as above

$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
Construction work - good

$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
Earmarked Pork

$500 million for state and local fire stations.
Equipment - Good / Paint bad - that amouint is not going to build very many stations

$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
Does not belon in this bill - US Forestry Service

$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.
Earmark Pork

$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.
Earmarked Pork

$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
Same as above - GSA Maintenence is not doing their job

$850 million for Amtrak
As long as used for capital expenses - engines, cars, new track. Not for regular maintenance

$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
Earmark pork - belongs in EPA budget

$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
Earmark pork - DOD & FBI facilites work great - also there are private facilities in place

$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
Does not belong in this bill

you have a pretty bizarre definition of pork. Just because it doesn't belong in this bill, does not make it 'pork'
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I absolutely love the Repuglican's sudden concern over fiscal responsibility. It's as if they hadn't encouraged the country to lever up to the hilt over the last 8 years. Hey, wasn't the national debt at 6tr before bush and is now almost 12tr?

Who approved that? Ohh wait, almost all under the Repuglicans!

These fuckers are only pandering further, it's disgusting to think that they spend like drunken sailors when they want to spend, but when somebody else does, they're suddenly Scrooge.

Well, its better than staying the course, right?
 

bbdub333

Senior member
Aug 21, 2007
684
0
0
Originally posted by: OrByte
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?

The argument against the GOP tax cuts is that people are just going to save the money or spend it on Chinese goods, providing no stimulus to the economy. How would boosting the salary of select federal employees have any differing effect?
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: OrByte
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?

That belongs in the general budget.
The FBI is already getting paid.

They are not hiring new agents and if they did, reoccuring expenses does not belong here.

Personal expenses should be kept out of this for every department.
from reading the article it said nothing about misallocating or misdirecting budget expenses only that these line items were considered "wasteful"

maybe the author of the article, or maybe GOP representatives, should choose their words more carefully?


 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
I'm going to guess that if we were to successfully come up with a clean-coal solution, it would be worthwhile for the entire country - not just the state of IL - don't you agree?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: OrByte
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?

That belongs in the general budget.
The FBI is already getting paid.

They are not hiring new agents and if they did, reoccuring expenses does not belong here.

Personal expenses should be kept out of this for every department.
from reading the article it said nothing about misallocating or misdirecting budget expenses only that these line items were considered "wasteful"

maybe the author of the article, or maybe GOP representatives, should choose their words more carefully?

Those types of items do not belong in the stimulus - bottom line.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
No, we are not better than Germany. Germany is the greatest country in the world. All hail Germany. Why have you not moved to Germany yet? :confused:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Minneapolis spent a bunch of money on Hydrid buses. I think the cost to the city was about 280K per bus. It gained them 2-4 MPG. It will never pay for itself.

when you go from 6 mpg to 10, it actually makes a pretty big difference. for things that move as much as buses, it coudl accumulate over time.


of course the better option would have been to just use natural gas.

Well I obviosuly exaggerated the time it will pay for itself. What I should have said was it is highly doubtful we will see it in the next 10 years. But then one has to calculate the opportunity costs of the money spent on the newer buses.

The fuel savings was lower than I originally thought. The old buses got 3.88 miles to the gallon while the hybrids get 4.71.

 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I absolutely love the Repuglican's sudden concern over fiscal responsibility. It's as if they hadn't encouraged the country to lever up to the hilt over the last 8 years. Hey, wasn't the national debt at 6tr before bush and is now almost 12tr?

Who approved that? Ohh wait, almost all under the Repuglicans!

These fuckers are only pandering further, it's disgusting to think that they spend like drunken sailors when they want to spend, but when somebody else does, they're suddenly Scrooge.

Well, its better than staying the course, right?

No, it's not better. They are playing a bullshit game, because you know damn well that this has nothing to do with countering pork, it has to do with countering the pork that they don't want and putting in pork they do want. It's the "spoiling" game with trying to styme the Dems and make them look bad. It's a game of "gotcha".

It has absolutely nothing to do with a fundamental shift in the Repuglican party back to what they were 30+ years ago. This is an utter bullshit move and is a joke. If more REAL Republicans realized this they'd vote every fucking Faux Repuglican out of office and get some REAL fiscal conservatives in there.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: bbdub333
Originally posted by: OrByte
One other thing:

How can salary increases at the FBI be considered "wasteful?"

How is that not a direct stimulus to people's paychecks?

The argument against the GOP tax cuts is that people are just going to save the money or spend it on Chinese goods, providing no stimulus to the economy. How would boosting the salary of select federal employees have any differing effect?

Any spending whether its on american goods or chinese goods will have a positive impact on the economy.

Exactly where are those moneys being spent? at local businesses and shops...not in china.

Case in point, you look at all the state employees here in my town that stopped spending money on lunches or shopping the minute the Governator started talking about "furloughs" and "layoffs." And all the lunch eateries and all of the downtown shops lost business and lost income. That has nothing to do with Chinese products and everything to do with the local economy. Now multiply that effect across the country.

Salaries get squeezed and discretionary spending goes out the window...which impacts all local businesses directly. I don't buy the idea that salary increases provide no positive economic impact. Whether that salary relief comes in some form of tax savings or salary increase, I don't really care.