What gives HOA's their authority?

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mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Don't live in a suburban neighborhood and you won't have to worry about their pseudopolitical housewife bullsh!t.

As much as I loathe HOAs I'll take them over living in some crime infested urban cesspool any day.

Someone better tell all those people not living in suburbia that they're living in crime infested urban cesspools!
 

xanis

Lifer
Sep 11, 2005
17,571
8
0
HOAs are there to deal with communal neighborhood property such as pools, open areas, landscaping, etcetera. They're basically there to "do what's best" for the neighborhood.

 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Xanis
HOAs are there to deal with communal neighborhood property such as pools, open areas, landscaping, etcetera. They're basically there to "do what's best" for the neighborhood.

Yea for about a day. Then they get bored controlling that and tell you your mail box is the wrong color or you can't park a SUV in the driveway, etc...

They don't do what best for the neighborhood, they do what ever they want. If someone on the board does not like blue guess what no blue houses etc... As already been pointed out someone with to much time on their hands will get some power and put what THEY think is best, not whats best for everybody.

You want a fair HOA. Anytime something comes up give everyhouse 1 vote. Nobody has anymore power then the next. Of course I doubt any HOA would do that as they would lose their power to control your property.
 

NoShangriLa

Golden Member
Sep 3, 2006
1,652
0
0
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think your reading comprehension needs a bit of work. You sign up for this when you agree to buy the house. End of story. There is no FORCING, it's entirely up to you to read the CC&Rs and accept their rules or find somewhere else to live.

Sorry I called you sh!t for brains though. :beer: Edit-I removed it from my original post.

On the contrary, as I mention in a post, you ARE being forced for a specific property. There simply is no opting out of it. It is just like a union labor shop. Even if you don't want to be part of the union, in order to work there you must join.

And as I also said, where I live, there has to be close to no non-HOA areas left to choose from in reasonable price ranges. Finding somewhere non-HOA means that I would be put at minimum another half hour away from my job. Now tell me, if I don't have the CHOICE, where is the equity in that?

They seem to be ignoring that point. It is virtually impossible in Northern Virginia to find a house built after 1980 that is not covered by an HOA. The only chance you have to find non HOA housing is to make enough money to afford a house in one of the close in suburbs that were developed right after WWII.
Gated communities are nice, and another option is to purchase an old house in a good neighborhood for the lot and build a new custom house.

 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Xanis
HOAs are there to deal with communal neighborhood property such as pools, open areas, landscaping, etcetera. They're basically there to "do what's best" for the neighborhood.

Yea for about a day. Then they get bored controlling that and tell you your mail box is the wrong color or you can't park a SUV in the driveway, etc...

They don't do what best for the neighborhood, they do what ever they want. If someone on the board does not like blue guess what no blue houses etc... As already been pointed out someone with to much time on their hands will get some power and put what THEY think is best, not whats best for everybody.

You want a fair HOA. Anytime something comes up give everyhouse 1 vote. Nobody has anymore power then the next. Of course I doubt any HOA would do that as they would lose their power to control your property.

Pretty much true. The biggest problem is that most people in any community don't have time to be bothered minding their neighbors business. They spend enough time dealing with work, traffic and commuting, and their own families and tend to ignore the HOA. That leaves the HOA vulnerable to being taken over by small groups of people with an agenda and once they gain control it is hard to remove them until they have caused much trouble and discontent.
 

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Originally posted by: NoShangriLa
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think your reading comprehension needs a bit of work. You sign up for this when you agree to buy the house. End of story. There is no FORCING, it's entirely up to you to read the CC&Rs and accept their rules or find somewhere else to live.

Sorry I called you sh!t for brains though. :beer: Edit-I removed it from my original post.

On the contrary, as I mention in a post, you ARE being forced for a specific property. There simply is no opting out of it. It is just like a union labor shop. Even if you don't want to be part of the union, in order to work there you must join.

And as I also said, where I live, there has to be close to no non-HOA areas left to choose from in reasonable price ranges. Finding somewhere non-HOA means that I would be put at minimum another half hour away from my job. Now tell me, if I don't have the CHOICE, where is the equity in that?

They seem to be ignoring that point. It is virtually impossible in Northern Virginia to find a house built after 1980 that is not covered by an HOA. The only chance you have to find non HOA housing is to make enough money to afford a house in one of the close in suburbs that were developed right after WWII.
Gated communities are nice, and another option is to purchase an old house in a good neighborhood for the lot and build a new custom house.

I don't know about up there, but in Texas there are lots of small houses in old neighborhoods, that cost less than what big "McMansions" cost in the suburban sprawl. This is probably because most Texans have a really warped sense of what is valuable-- they often think new is better-- so there's less competition.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Xanis
HOAs are there to deal with communal neighborhood property such as pools, open areas, landscaping, etcetera. They're basically there to "do what's best" for the neighborhood.

Yea for about a day. Then they get bored controlling that and tell you your mail box is the wrong color or you can't park a SUV in the driveway, etc...

They don't do what best for the neighborhood, they do what ever they want. If someone on the board does not like blue guess what no blue houses etc... As already been pointed out someone with to much time on their hands will get some power and put what THEY think is best, not whats best for everybody.

You want a fair HOA. Anytime something comes up give everyhouse 1 vote. Nobody has anymore power then the next. Of course I doubt any HOA would do that as they would lose their power to control your property.

The neighborhood can vote, that's the beauty of the HOA...however; most do not bother until something is changed that another doesn't like (just like laws). It's easier to get something voted on than to get it unvoted.


I chose to not live in an HOA for a couple reasons...the main one is I like to work on my car. I do not leave it out on jack stands overnight or anything like that, but occasionally I will out my seats to clean it, remove the wheels to adjust my suspension (coilovers and all adjustable links), etc. I don't want to have to worry about breaking the rules.

I picked a neighborhood where people seem to be like minded. Everyone has nice yards, painted houses, etc...a neighbor across the street was working on a truck putting on running boards, a bed liner, and new wheels and tires. Another neighbor was helping him. I don't see car work any worse than those that have garage sales or half a playground in their front yard every weekend. Sure it's not visually appealing, but it's their place to do so providing it's all picked up each day. The things I do hate in the neighborhoods (I dont have any) are those portable basketball nets that line the streets usually knocked over blocking the sidewalk or road. People should bring those in at night/when not in use. They are really bad when they are on unlit or poorly lit streets, they have a very narrow profile and are hard to see especially around a turn.

One thing I do hate is the people that buy into a neighborhood to do things they like, but don't want others doing.
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,463
17
81
I get to ask my HOA about putting an A/C unit in the wall of my garage. I'm hoping they say yes!
 
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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
HOAs do not help value.
They don't hurt, either. Just because you won't consider a neighborhood with one doesn't mean HOA's don't hurt values.

The sheer amount of new housing going up in developments with HOA's would indicate that you're not right on this one. People are buying them in droves, so obviously an HOA isn't a factor in running many people off.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
HOAs do not help value.
They don't hurt, either. Just because you won't consider a neighborhood with one doesn't mean HOA's don't hurt values.

The sheer amount of new housing going up in developments with HOA's would indicate that you're not right on this one. People are buying them in droves, so obviously an HOA isn't a factor in running many people off.

WRONG. They don't have a choice a lot of times. Don't want to drive a hour each way to get to your job, then live in the only places open... oh they all have HOAs.

Take 2 houses that are the same. Tell someone one has a HOA and the other does not. The one without a HOA will sell faster/more money then the one with.

Realtors even put in their listings "NO HOA!!!" as its a selling point. It helps sell a house. I even caught one listing where the realtor took off that it has a HOA. It hurts the value and ability to sell a property if there is a HOA.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Here are just a few homeowner horror stories that have been reported to Bankrate:

A man from Rancho Santa Fe, Calif., lost his home because he planted too many roses on his four-acre site. The board fined him and watched monthly as the fines mounted.

When they slapped a lien on his home, he went to court and lost because he'd transgressed the board's architectural design rules. He was stuck with the board's $70,000 legal fees and lost his home to the bank.


A woman from Pomona, Calif., who was involved in a divorce fell behind with her monthly dues. The board said she owed $1,000; she said it was less than $800, and they went to court when the board threatened foreclosure.

The woman was right -- the volunteer board's amateur accountants goofed, but the judge ruled she should have made back payments during the dispute, anyway, and the therapist was handed a $22,000 legal bill.


A couple from Lawrenceville, Ga., found they had a $3,500 lien on their house when they tried to sell it. The homeowners association had been fining them every day they left pink flamingos on their lawn but didn't tell them. The association got the money, but the couple have filed suit to get it back.


A Maryland man asked for a six-foot fence as protection from a neighbor who'd attacked him with a log. The board denied the request, so the homeowner sued -- and lost. It cost him $23,000 in legal fees and interest.

Chastened, he built a shorter fence, but in places it was several inches taller than the four feet allowed. Board members came with a tape measure, fined him, slapped a lien on the home and seized the man's paycheck. "They took all my savings and treated me like a common criminal," he says.

Sometimes, the long-gone developer causes problems. A Hillsborough, Calif., builder put houses wherever he could, then donated unusable areas as 'parkland' to the private community. The donated areas turned out to be unstable hillside that required the homeowners to pay loads of money for some expensive maintenance.


Near snowy Donner Pass, Calif., a development has rules that you can't drive over the snow or clear it from around your house to preserve the rural appearance and to provide zones for snowmobiles.

A woman resident with a back injury wasn't able to walk the half mile to her house, so she drove over the snow. The association fined her up to $500 a day. She faces more than $50,000 in fines and has been fighting her HOA in court for three years. The case is unresolved.


A Tampa, Fla., woman thought her attorney had paid all her delinquent HOA fees of more than $4,000, but she was wrong by $497. It cost her the house.

The busy physical therapist ignored legal papers mailed to her, the association foreclosed and held a courthouse auction. A property company snapped up the house for $4,651, the price of the HOA's legal fees, then sold it for $88,000.


A family that cares for five foster children in Port Richey, Fla., was threatened with eviction from their residential development. The association considered having foster kids a business because the state paid $2,028 a month to care for the children.

The 56-cents-an-hour 'business' owners are still fighting the case.


Sometimes a poor homeowner feels the wrath of the HOA even when he tries to succumb to the obscure rules and regulations. The nightmare for one Florida resident started only after he admitted he made a mistake and informed the HOA he was going to rectify it immediately.

It seemed this hapless soul painted his house a bright blue -- after believing an HOA's secretary who said prior approval by the HOA was merely a formality. When he learned of his misdeed, he quickly agreed he would switch to a sanctioned shade.

That's what made the subsequent assault by the HOA so bizarre.

First it held a meeting to discuss the crime with neighbors -- but didn't invite the culprit. Then they stuffed fliers in each neighbor's mailbox -- carefully skipping the scene of the crime -- in which they went on at length about their outrage over the unauthorized paint job.

When he got a copy of the flier from a sympathetic neighbor, the stunned homeowner wrote to the HOA president, reiterating his willingness to repaint the house and politely objecting to what he felt was needlessly abusive treatment and a dismal lack of neighborliness.

He got no response from the grand poobah but did receive a threatening letter from the HOA lawyer.

The final straw came at the end of the month when the HOA's monthly newsletter came out -- while the repaint work already in progress. The top story on the front page was a copy of the lawyer's nasty threatening letter to the harried homeowner, along with a note warning that all such miscreants would face a similar fate.


Rarely, homeowner association horror tales have a happy ending. Take the case of Houston attorney Wendy Laubach, who helped a man get his house back. Ill with a brain tumor, the man fell behind on $600 in condo dues. His association sued to get the money, piling on $4,600 more in legal fees. When the man couldn't pay on time, the association foreclosed and sold his $55,000 home for $17,000. Laubach got the foreclosure voided, a rare event.


Yea sign me up for a HOA, there great!!! :roll:
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,582
4
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: RKS
Our HOA threatened us with a $50 fine because our mailbox was not black enough. :D
It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is none. None more black.

i watched that for the first time today :D

i waited too long to see it

/only 24, but still i waited too long
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,960
140
106
HOA board members / enforcers are always on the job and all their "business" is considered "official" . If they visit you or send you a letter a "record of action" is put into your file at the HOA admin.office. HOA's are in the business of collecting "evidence" and are always updating their "membership files". The "membership file" is designed to establish "case history" so further action can be justified if warranted. They are always looking to "escalate" their enforcement based on their "membership file(s)". So if they fine you or lien your property they can show "cause" based on their "case history" in your file. I encourage all HOA members to keep and maintain a log on all HOA communications and correspondence so "patterns of abuse" and malicious interpretation of CC+R's can be proven and established. If a HOA board member or similar gives you verbal permission to do something on your property always insist on a follow-up email or letter to protect you and establish written permission for your use of "your" property.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,235
10,810
136
Most HOA boards are volunteer, if you all hate them, join the board and try to fix it. The shady shit shouldn't be allowed, but I think that is the exception, not the rule.

There is so much BS that an HOA has to deal with it's nuts. Pools, lawns, contractors not doing their jobs, people vandalizing things, neighbor's bitching about each other, stuff always breaks, etc. Most people live in neighborhoods and think all of that just happens, then get pissed off about HOAs when they are told their cousin can't park his RV on their driveway.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,417
12,595
126
www.anyf.ca
The concept of HOAs and even lot of city bylaws is retarded. People should have the right to do what they want on their own property and also build what they want. The concept of property ownership should also be that you own it 100%. Ex: city or corporations should not be allowed to take it or own mineral rights etc. When you buy land, you should own it 100%. It's yours to do what you want. Period. If someone does not like it they can go pound sand. If they think something is an eye sore well they can build a fence to block the view. I hate how cities always cater to the people who have nothing better to do than to complain about stuff in their neighbours' yards. Some HOAs will even fine people for dead trees. By dead, they really mean that they have no leaves. ...Like in winter. Seriously, it's happened.

Also people should have the right to conduct business on their property as long as they arnt causing any kind of major racket/noise/traffic. So many instances of people who are forced to demolish their garage because they fix cars or do other stuff for money and some brown noser complains to the city. There's such instance in my city that happened recently. Some guy build a pretty nice 2,000sqft garage and lives in a fairly secluded area. He's not bothering anyone. Yet city got wind of it and gave him tons of trouble for it.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I'm currently in an HOA of sorts, but technically a condo association. Distinction in our case is, while our fee is fairly high (~$150/month), they take care of almost everything regarding the property, and they are responsible for all exterior walls and common access, which together would include the roof, foundation, and sewers. We otherwise own our unit and are responsible for our utilities (electric only property unfortunately, how I miss gas burners on the stove).

Things can get a touch catty, but typically only due to renters. I'm actually the newest member of the association and we're working to clean up the whole renter aspect and get our property values back up (that's why I'm in it, I want a say on my property investment). Previous bylaws allowed anyone to rent out their place I believe, we're working to update them to restrict who an owner can decide to rent to -- basically family and special circumstances -- but otherwise allow limited rentals. We started self-managing before I became involved because our last management company was a sham that blew our money with a stooge at the helm of the association.

In this limited instance, I'm quite okay with an association. I think it's going to work well for me, but mostly only out of timing. Property values plummeted of course and that is why I got a place so affordable and yet quite and clean, but there is actually a light at the end of the tunnel (I hope lol).
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Most HOA boards are volunteer, if you all hate them, join the board and try to fix it. The shady shit shouldn't be allowed, but I think that is the exception, not the rule.

There is so much BS that an HOA has to deal with it's nuts. Pools, lawns, contractors not doing their jobs, people vandalizing things, neighbor's bitching about each other, stuff always breaks, etc. Most people live in neighborhoods and think all of that just happens, then get pissed off about HOAs when they are told their cousin can't park his RV on their driveway.
I go to all of the HOA meetings in fact I just went to an HOA meeting today. IMO, it's far, far worse than you've mentioned. The decisions that have to be made where this affects that which them affect this... It's mind-boggling. We had Irma blast through last September and the community is still not at 100%. One of the items being dealt with today was the replacement of 30 royal palm trees. They run about $2100 each. One of the decisions that had to me made was whether to replace the 42 that were lost or if some lost and not replaced will not negatively affect the community.

There was a really long discussion on how to deal with a homeowner that is behind on their homeowners dues. They asked for and were offered a payment plan which they accepted and reneged on in the second month. There are several options to deal with the situation and none are good. The board wrestled with the decision for a long time and ultimately decided to foreclose. This process could take from 6 to 18 months to resolve. It's compounded by the homeowners having a mortgage that is about equal to the value of the house. How this occurred is a mystery to the board because homes are selling very well and property values are rising. Nobody is going to win in this scenario but if the board is lenient the rest of the community is covering for the scofflaws and the money owed to the association will be even harder to recoup.

I could go on and on with stories but this is enough for now.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,235
10,810
136
I go to all of the HOA meetings in fact I just went to an HOA meeting today. IMO, it's far, far worse than you've mentioned. The decisions that have to be made where this affects that which them affect this... It's mind-boggling. We had Irma blast through last September and the community is still not at 100%. One of the items being dealt with today was the replacement of 30 royal palm trees. They run about $2100 each. One of the decisions that had to me made was whether to replace the 42 that were lost or if some lost and not replaced will not negatively affect the community.

There was a really long discussion on how to deal with a homeowner that is behind on their homeowners dues. They asked for and were offered a payment plan which they accepted and reneged on in the second month. There are several options to deal with the situation and none are good. The board wrestled with the decision for a long time and ultimately decided to foreclose. This process could take from 6 to 18 months to resolve. It's compounded by the homeowners having a mortgage that is about equal to the value of the house. How this occurred is a mystery to the board because homes are selling very well and property values are rising. Nobody is going to win in this scenario but if the board is lenient the rest of the community is covering for the scofflaws and the money owed to the association will be even harder to recoup.

I could go on and on with stories but this is enough for now.
Yeah. I joined our board last year and the amount of stuff that has to be dealt with is insane and very time consuming and no one appreciates it. But if the HOA doesn't do it, the pool gets closed, the grass doesn't get mowed, fallen trees aren't cleared, etc.
 
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renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,714
634
136
I refuse to live in a HOA community. I bought a house in an old neighborhood years ago. City block style layout without all the bs. Next house is gonna be in the middle of nowhere, cuz fuck people.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Yeah. I joined our board last year and the amount of stuff that has to be dealt with is insane and very time consuming and no one appreciates it. But if the HOA doesn't do it, the pool gets closed, the grass doesn't get mowed, fallen trees aren't cleared, etc.
Five of seven board members did not run earlier this year so we essentially got a new board. I'm not certain the new chairman is the best choice but he has formed committee's that research, get proposals and quotes, etc. It's working out pretty well. Our last chairman was a my way or the highway autocrat that wouldn't delegate and because he was overloaded, not enough of the legwork was done and we were grossly overpaying, hiring lower tier vendors and things along that line.

We also have an onsite property manager that is an employee of a management company that shoulders a certain amount of the burden. I don't know if the management company is required due to our size or if it's a Florida thing or what.

Hat's off to ya man. Just going to the meetings has made me aware of the burden one takes on and here at least, for zero pay. It's also a thankless job because you can't please everybody and there are always a percentage of crazies within any group that can make life miserable.

For the naysayers (and to each his own) for my monthly dues I get the lawn mowed, the trimming (both the lawn and shrubs) done, weeding, fertilizing, mulching, irrigation, everything out and around the house and the common areas taken care of. I also have Internet and TV, alarm monitoring, a clubhouse with a pool and billiards room, a gym, a library and I'm sure I've forgotten something. I owned property all of my adult years and never ever liked yard work. I am ecstatic to have somebody else doing it at a cost that I can easily handle. Again, to each his own.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,409
1,617
136
The concept of HOAs and even lot of city bylaws is retarded. People should have the right to do what they want on their own property and also build what they want. The concept of property ownership should also be that you own it 100%. Ex: city or corporations should not be allowed to take it or own mineral rights etc. When you buy land, you should own it 100%. It's yours to do what you want. Period. If someone does not like it they can go pound sand. If they think something is an eye sore well they can build a fence to block the view. I hate how cities always cater to the people who have nothing better to do than to complain about stuff in their neighbours' yards. Some HOAs will even fine people for dead trees. By dead, they really mean that they have no leaves. ...Like in winter. Seriously, it's happened.

Also people should have the right to conduct business on their property as long as they arnt causing any kind of major racket/noise/traffic. So many instances of people who are forced to demolish their garage because they fix cars or do other stuff for money and some brown noser complains to the city. There's such instance in my city that happened recently. Some guy build a pretty nice 2,000sqft garage and lives in a fairly secluded area. He's not bothering anyone. Yet city got wind of it and gave him tons of trouble for it.
The problem with what I highlighted is that if a community/neighborhood is designed from the beginning to be HOA and someone wants to move in and be a non-HOA type of resident then they are the disruptive element, not the HOA. Plenty of places that are not HOA but you chose to move into an HOA and then complain about it being HOA. Whereas I moved into an HOA community because I did not want people like you putting up neon Bud Light signs in the front windows of the homes and turning the place into a trailer park.
 
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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,961
8,204
126
Yeah. I joined our board last year and the amount of stuff that has to be dealt with is insane and very time consuming and no one appreciates it. But if the HOA doesn't do it, the pool gets closed, the grass doesn't get mowed, fallen trees aren't cleared, etc.
Yea, we don't have an hoa here, so none of that gets handled. It's like a third world country. Burning barrels in the cul-de-sacs, cars turned over, illegals living in tents. It's a nightmare. If only we had a hoa... I often think, what this world needs is more authority. That and stormtroopers. We don't have enough stormtroopers...
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
The problem with what I highlighted is that if a community/neighborhood is designed from the beginning to be HOA and someone wants to move in and be a non-HOA type of resident then they are the disruptive element, not the HOA. Plenty of places that are not HOA but you chose to move into an HOA and then complain about it being HOA. Whereas I moved into an HOA community because I did not want people like you putting up neon Bud Light signs in the front windows of the homes and turning the place into a trailer park.
That would be fine if there was a zoning law that required that some percentage of new developments be HOA free but with the current situation unless you live in an area where a lot of development took place prior to the HOA boom of the 1970's your chance of finding an HOA free residence is very difficult.