What does the European financial crisis tell us about the limits of multiculturalism?

[Infohawk]

For much of its history, the US has been culturally dominated by WASP culture. Most Americans have thrived under this dominance. There is no doubt the US has been an economic powerhouse for most of its history.

The European Union aims to become a continental government in Europe. But Europe is facing an economic crisis at the moment. The countries in Europe that are causing the problems right now are Southern European and Latin countries. These countries have questionable accounting practices, lack of fiscal restraint, and for the past few centuries always seem to be poorer than their northern neighbors. Some people are talking about kicking the southern countries out of the monetary union. The development of the EU is being restrained by cultural differences.

As Americans can we learn from this? Do we really want to continue an unrestrained policy of multiculturalism? Jersey Shore aside, southern Europeans mostly assimilated into the WASP culture. But it seems more recent southern arrivals are not necessarily assimilating as quickly. Meanwhile, once-proud California with its booming economy and great public schools looks more like a southern European state or a Latin American state. Don't we need to recognize the limits of multiculturalism and recognize the strengths of northern European / WASP culture?

(Warning for the slow-witted out there: race does not equal culture.)

Do you see any connection here? Any lessons from Europe?

 

[theflyingpig]

The problem isn't multiculturalism, it's liberalism. Everyone knows this.

 

[JS80]

wtf is wasp culture? People of all races and cultures flourish financially in America.

But if you are asking if some guido/gypsey/shady mofo/lazy ass southern europeans are incompatible with in God we trust western economies, I would say this whole PIIGS exercise pretty much confirms it. Asians are the same but the reason why economies still function there is because eastern culture "respects" authority and they are all each own sovereign nation. I would imagine a eurozone equivalent in Asia would be 100x more fail. Each tribe there hates each other even more.

 

[Infohawk]

But if you are asking if some guido/gypsey/shady mofo/lazy ass southern europeans are incompatible with in God we trust western economies, I would say this whole PIIGS exercise pretty much confirms it.

Is it noteworthy that Britain is falling into this category and is generally the most multicultural of Europe?

WASP culture is just my shorthand for describing the culture of Western and Northern Europe as opposed to PIIGS countries. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

And I didn't say that only WASPS can flourish in the USA. But I think people can/do flourish in America because America is founded on WASP culture.

 

[Throckmorton]

And the right says it's not racist.

 

[Infohawk]

And the right says it's not racist.

Why are you bringing race into this? Doesn't make sense since Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans are all white. This is about culture.

 

[MJinZ]

For much of its history, the US has been culturally dominated by WASP culture. Most Americans have thrived under this dominance. There is no doubt the US has been an economic powerhouse for most of its history.

The European Union aims to become a continental government in Europe. But Europe is facing an economic crisis at the moment. The countries in Europe that are causing the problems right now are Southern European and Latin countries. These countries have questionable accounting practices, lack of fiscal restraint, and for the past few centuries always seem to be poorer than their northern neighbors. Some people are talking about kicking the southern countries out of the monetary union. The development of the EU is being restrained by cultural differences.

As Americans can we learn from this? Do we really want to continue an unrestrained policy of multiculturalism? Jersey Shore aside, southern Europeans mostly assimilated into the WASP culture. But it seems more recent southern arrivals are not necessarily assimilating as quickly. Meanwhile, once-proud California with its booming economy and great public schools looks more like a southern European state or a Latin American state. Don't we need to recognize the limits of multiculturalism and recognize the strengths of northern European / WASP culture?

(Warning for the slow-witted out there: race does not equal culture.)

Do you see any connection here? Any lessons from Europe?

WASP culture? Wait, what? Isn't that a paradox?

 

[Infohawk]

The problem isn't multiculturalism, it's liberalism. Everyone knows this.

Wow. The "everyone knows this" part is particularly stupid and useless. I assume you're using the definition of "liberals" that teabaggers would use. Problem is that northern Europeans have basically the same liberal policies that southern Europeans do, if not more liberal. Nice try though.

 

[MJinZ]

Why are you bringing race into this? Doesn't make sense since Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans are all white. This is about culture.

Here, I'll bring race into this. The funny thing about your Avatar is not that Jesus is holding a T-Rex. It's that Jesus is portrayed as White.

 

[sandorski]

Nothing

 

[CanOWorms]

The Western and Northern European dreams of empire renewed led to them quickly expanding the EU and the Euro. Everyone knewthat European governments mess around with statistics, so nobody cared that Greece was making stuff up as long as it could continue the cultural dream of empire. Seems like there is an argument against Western and Northern European cultural elements, too.

 

[Infohawk]

The Western and Northern European dreams of empire renewed led to them quickly expanding the EU and the Euro. Everyone knewthat European governments mess around with statistics, so nobody cared that Greece was making stuff up as long as it could continue the cultural dream of empire. Seems like there is an argument against Western and Northern European cultural elements, too.

The southern European countries have long histories of empire too. Nice try though.

 

[CanOWorms]

The southern European countries have long histories of empire too. Nice try though.

I never claimed that they didn't. Both sides have dreams of empire leading to the current situation.

 

[Throckmorton]

Why are you bringing race into this? Doesn't make sense since Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans are all white. This is about culture.

WASP stands for "white anglo saxon protestant". Three of those words describe race, and one describes religion. You're the one who brought race into this.

 

[Infohawk]

WASP stands for "white anglo saxon protestant". Three of those words describe race, and one describes religion. You're the one who brought race into this.

Except I was comparing it to the Latin / Southern european culture which is also "white." The white part is not the issue here. I'm glad that we've seen kneejerk reactions from both sides of the spectrum though.

 

[Throckmorton]

Except I was comparing it to the Latin / Southern european culture which is also "white." The white part is not the issue here. I'm glad that we've seen kneejerk reactions from both sides of the spectrum though.

So racism can't exist between different types of "white people"? Tell that to the earliest Irish and Italian immigrants to this country

 

[IronWing]

And here I was thinking California got fucked over by Reagan's Prop 13 which gutted the state's ability to fund necessary services and quality schools. Turns out it was really the gooks, waps, wogs, kikes, paddies, beaners, and chinks. The more ya know...

 

[her209]

Do you see any connection here? Any lessons from Europe?

The poorer, less cultured states are dragging the rest of the US down?

 

[Perknose]

So racism can't exist between different types of "white people"? Tell that to the earliest Irish and Italian immigrants to this country

Or to those Brits who to this day derisively and racially refer to the French and the Italians as wogs because they are not as "white" as they are.

Infohawk, you don't even know the history of what you would call "white" immigrants to your own country. Italians, Germans, Poles, etc. came here and spent their entire adult lives here and learned far less English (unto none) than your average Mexican illegal knows today.

You have to get your basic facts straight before you can launch into your would be prescriptive pronunciamento.

The United States has always been far more multicultural than you mistakenly and ahistorically assume, with Swedish speaking enclaves, Norwegian speaking enclaves. Italian speaking enclaves, French speaking enclaves, Polish speaking enclaves, Gullah speaking enclaves, Creole speaking enclaves and, yes, long before the last 50 years or so, Spanish speaking enclaves . . . among others.

Where I now live, in Bucks Co. Pa, 15 minutes from where General George Washington crossed the Delaware and just down the street from a Quaker meeting established in 1715 or so, a place about as "American" as it gets, where the lists of men who answered the call for the Revolutionary Army are still easily accessible, town by town, German nearly rivaled English as the language of commerce and newspapers in parts up until near the end of the 19th century.

If you stay as ignorant of the highly multicultural history of the United States of America as the blowhard cultural supremacists who infest this forum, you're doomed to come to conclusions as hate-monkey dumb as they do.

You might just be better than that.

 

[Infohawk]

So racism can't exist between different types of "white people"? Tell that to the earliest Irish and Italian immigrants to this country

*Yawn* It's not racism if you can't even tell people apart by their physical characteristics. Take away last names and culture and you can't tell an Irish from an English or German person.

Anyway, I get it and you've made your point. You are fan of multiculturalism and anyone who doesn't share your view is a bigot. (Even though you are the one injecting race into it.) It's easier to call people bigots than make coherent arguments.

 

[Infohawk]

Perknose, I don't disagree there's been a lot of multicultural immigration to this country. They assimilated. It's ridiculous to think Italian-Americans still retain their Italian culture. (I know they like to think they do but unfortunately it just shows how American they are in their ignorance of Italian culture, for example.) So I don't disagree with your examples, they actually fit into my point about assimilation.

And I'm not about supremacy of cultures although I don't think there's anything morally wrong with preferring once culture over another.

For example, Latin colonization was relatively nicer than northern European colonization. Though both were racists, Latins mixed into the local populations whereas the Brits exterminated the local populations. Similarly, studies show Latin Americans are some of the happiest people in the world. I could imagine that being true.

But personally I'd rather live in Germany than Greece right now.

 

[Perknose]

Perknose, I don't disagree there's been a lot of multicultural immigration to this country. They assimilated.

And my point to you is that, in many, many instances, they didn't do so as quickly or as completely as you mistakenly think they did.

Hell, I grew up in white, Republican, suburban Delaware County Pa. (went for Alf Landon in the landslide of 1936, not that commie Roosevelt) and there were still Italian women in the mom and pop hoagie shops who had spent 40-70 years in the US and still couldn't speak an entire sentence in English.

In a multitude of urban ethnic enclaves all over American, in mining towns and in some mid-west farm enclaves, there were still places where English was NOT the dominant language.

All I'm saying to you is that you should dig deeper into the actual history of your country or your prescriptions for it will be quite literally made in ignorance.

 

[Infohawk]

And my point to you is that, in many, many instances, they didn't do so as quickly or as completely as you mistakenly think they did.

Hell, I grew up in white, Republican, suburban Delaware County Pa. (went for Alf Landon in the landslide of 1936, not that commie Roosevelt) and there were still Italian women in the mom and pop hoagie shops who had spent 40-70 years in the US and still couldn't speak an entire sentence in English.

In a multitude of urban ethnic enclaves all over American, in mining towns and in some mid-west farm enclaves, there were still places where English was NOT the dominant language.

All I'm saying to you is that you should dig deeper into the actual history of your country or your prescriptions for it will be quite literally made in ignorance.

I don't think I argued southern European assimilation was quick. But in my observations it has been complete (the "Sicilians" I know in America have much more in common with British people in terms of culture than their Italian cousins) although I will admit class and culture seem more entrenched on the East Coast.

And I don't want to make it seem like Latin Americans are incapable of assimilating. Many already have. I think the difference today is that multiculturalism has stunted assimilation. I would like immigrants to assimilate as quickly as possible. Why? So that we may have a stronger union.

 

[5150Joker]

Except I was comparing it to the Latin / Southern european culture which is also "white." The white part is not the issue here. I'm glad that we've seen kneejerk reactions from both sides of the spectrum though.

You're a fucking moron. End of thread.

 

[Herr Kutz]

I'm not a fan of multiculturalism; all it does is breed conflict.