What does the American Flag Symbolize to you?

[eilute]

The other day I saw someone run by carrying an American flag. As he passed by the crowd cheered. I had to stop and ask myself what all the cheering was for. Why are we rallying together? Should I lean back, put my hands to my mouth, and in a fit heated of patriotism shout, "Destroy Mexico!"

I think shouting that would be totally inappropriate and, for lack of a better word, racist, and almost Nazi-like. I just don't quite understand what the crowd was cheering for. What has America done recently that we should be so proud of? This is not the same flag we flew in 1776. Is it the flag we flew in WWI and WWII? Is it the flag we flew when we ran Al Quaida out of Afghanistan? I don't get that impression that it is.

When I see the flag I think of things such as imperialism and military might. These are not things I would cheer for. I consider symbols such as Martin Luther King, and the original American flag to be patriotic ones. I have trouble, however, associating our modern day flag with those things.

What does the American flag symbolize to you? What is your nationality (I'm American)?

I suspect some of you will have good counter arguments. I don't know what they will be though.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I think shouting that would be totally inappropriate and, for lack of a better word, racist,

He said destroy Mexico, not slay the Hispanics. It sounds more nationalistic than racist.

What has America done recently that we should be so proud of?

It is my nation of birth and I love it (the US) enough to be proud to be called a citizen.

 

[RightIsWrong]

I've often had similar thoughts to the OP. I have been running behind in the AM and, while dropping my kids off at school, have come in time for the pledge. I can't help but thinking that it is nothing but a brain-washing and indoctrination at the earliest of ages so that when the child comes of age to choose whether or not to go to war for his country, he will instinctively choose to do so.

If you look at a cross section of America's military, I am willing to bet that you will not find even 2% of families that had household incomes over $200k have a representative within the service. And just why is that? It's simple. Families that are making that kind of coin don't have an economic need first and foremost. But just as importantly, they also do not just accept what is being peddled to them without questioning it. Low income families are generally made up of people that very rarely ever question authority and are more likely to just go with the flow. They will accept that you HAVE to say the pledge b/c you are unAmerican if you don't while someone with more intelligence and/or money will sit back and think.....WHY do I have to say it?

So, in summation, the flag represents very little to me. I am very happy that I was born an American and I would not want to be anything else because of the opportunities afforded to me. However, I don't need a cloth symbol (or plastic replica) to tell me to feel that way.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

This flag represents capitalist plundering of the world.
Patriotism is just a tool to be used to fool the weak or ill informed.
I feel discussed when I see the flag I was born and raised under.
This is a flag of lies. I feel nothing as others burn it but I am beginning to understand
why they burn it.
Since Vietnam this country has gone down hill. :thumbsdown:
Bush & Chaney's lack of military record speaks volumes about thier character. I bet both used the
flag for ass-wipe in private.
Christian fundies and others waving the flag are no better than Klansmen waving the stars & bars imho.

Born in Brookly,NY.
Raised in a Christian, Navy family. Father survived Pearl and two ships of war during WWII.
I was not drafted for Vietnam because of near blindness in the left eye-ball.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: eilute

What does the American flag symbolize to you? What is your nationality (I'm American)?

Violence and fear.

 

[OutHouse]

WTF at the responses in here. Have any of you who responded by bashing the flag ever been to another country?


<<<VFW member

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: eilute

What does the American flag symbolize to you? What is your nationality (I'm American)?

Violence and fear.

You forgot to mention that you live in Pakistan. What does your flag mean to you?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: eilute

What does the American flag symbolize to you? What is your nationality (I'm American)?

Violence and fear.

You forgot to mention that you live in Pakistan. What does your flag mean to you?

Geez, I thought he meant violence is what it represents to him and fear is his country.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Citrix
WTF at the responses in here. Have any of you who responded by bashing the flag ever been to another country?


<<<VFW member

Yes....many. But what does that have to do with how we feel our flag has been co-opted to be nothing more than a rallying symbol?

Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is a horrible place to live? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is infallible? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't have room for improvement? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country still doesn't offer the best opportunity for a happy life for a person? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't offer anything good to us and the rest of the world? No.

You have become what I was referring to in my original post....a brainwashed idiolog who can't separate the rhetoric from reality. The flag means absolutely nothing. The ideas behind it are what are either projected or compromised. Those are the things to which we speak of.

Edit: Grammatical error.

 

[Arkaign]

Personally, as disheartened as I am about much of the direction our country has taken in recent history, I still see our flag as a beacon of hope and ideals. It may be a misplaced romantic notion, or an archaic form of patriotism, but I love my country, even as I revile our present government.

 

[magomago]

To me its many mixed feelings. Sometimes I want to say I'm proud when I see it....but these days more often than not I look at it as a tool of nationalism, imperialiam, and even arrogance....I think the flag itself is highjacked for un American purposes.

 

[Lemon law]

I see the American flag as a set of ideals to be lived up to---and not worn on a sleeve---sadly the set that waves the flag use it as a tool to cover up their failures to live up to the ideals
the flag should stand for----no truer words were ever spoken than---patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.

 

[Moonbeam]

Love yourself and you will know how to love your country. You won't need a flag.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Citrix
WTF at the responses in here. Have any of you who responded by bashing the flag ever been to another country?


<<<VFW member

Yes....many. But what does that have to do with how we feel our flag has been co-opted to be nothing more than a rallying symbol?

Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is a horrible place to live? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is infallible? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't have room for improvement? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country still doesn't offer the best opportunity for a happy life for a person? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't offer anything good to us and the rest of the world? No.

You have become what I was referring to in my original post....a brainwashed idiolog who can't separate the rhetoric from reality. The flag means absolutely nothing. The ideas behind it are what are either projected or compromised. Those are the things to which we speak of.

Edit: Grammatical error.

You don?t know a damn thing about me and you call me a brainwashed idiolog?

as far as your weak ass argument about the 2% 200K well no sh*t Sherlock. There are two reason why a person joins the military. 1. Money for college. If your family makes that kind of money the person doesn?t need to join the military for college money (unless parents cut them off) and the other reason he/she just wants to server their country.

From your other post, im happy to tell you that you are the one who is brainwashed, we live in a great country. You say you don?t need a piece of cloth to tell you how you feel. Well buddy you are right you don?t, because you just don?t understand that a flag is a symbol of a country. If you feel that the sacrifices that men and women have laid down over the past 200+ years so that you can be afforded the opportunities you have today mean nothing to you, then you have hold no value in anything but your own greedy self righteous self.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Citrix
WTF at the responses in here. Have any of you who responded by bashing the flag ever been to another country?


<<<VFW member

Yes....many. But what does that have to do with how we feel our flag has been co-opted to be nothing more than a rallying symbol?

Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is a horrible place to live? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is infallible? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't have room for improvement? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country still doesn't offer the best opportunity for a happy life for a person? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't offer anything good to us and the rest of the world? No.

You have become what I was referring to in my original post....a brainwashed idiolog who can't separate the rhetoric from reality. The flag means absolutely nothing. The ideas behind it are what are either projected or compromised. Those are the things to which we speak of.

Edit: Grammatical error.

You don?t know a damn thing about me and you call me a brainwashed idiolog?

as far as your weak ass argument about the 2% 200K well no sh*t Sherlock. There are two reason why a person joins the military. 1. Money for college. If your family makes that kind of money the person doesn?t need to join the military for college money (unless parents cut them off) and the other reason he/she just wants to server their country.

From your other post, im happy to tell you that you are the one who is brainwashed, we live in a great country. You say you don?t need a piece of cloth to tell you how you feel. Well buddy you are right you don?t, because you just don?t understand that a flag is a symbol of a country. If you feel that the sacrifices that men and women have laid down over the past 200+ years so that you can be afforded the opportunities you have today mean nothing to you, then you have hold no value in anything but your own greedy self righteous self.

Once again, you confuse the feelings for the symbol. The flag does not validate or invalidate your feelings. It just gives you something that you need to be able to recognize that you have them. I personally don't need that same symbol to have those same feelings.

I can gather a lot more information to base my opinion on about how this country is to be perceived via the internet than I can from looking at a single flag. I can have a deeper appreciation for the sacrifices that others made for this country by reading about them in history books than by looking at a flag.

You are brainwashed into believing that you HAVE to feel those emotions when you see a flag so that leaders can pull at those heartstrings to invoke a specific feeling (good or bad) when they need to get you to support or oppose a particular issue.

Reality to you in regards to this issue appears to be:

Burning flag == bad
Raising flag == good

For those that are based in a free-thinking reality world.....the flag isn't a symbol of what makes a country great or bad and burning it or raising it means little. The people that directly represent it are the "symbols" that show the world how we are doing as a society.

I'm guessing from your post that you think that America can do wrong. Not as long as they are able to wave a flag in front of you to get you to remember the sacrifices of those past so that those present can pick your pocket.

 

[Steeplerot]

Imperialism, but it does have a religion-like worship by ate up individuals, I don't buy the dying soldier patriotism bit, it is well known someone dying is more interested in calling out for their mothers or loved ones, or their own lives in reality then some movie-like gushing for the flag. Soldiers fight to save their buddies and get home safe, they say it is to preserve our way of life, but it's actually about preserving someone up tops pocketbook.

I am not a anti-american per se, but this is how nationalism and patriotism works everywhere. Always has been. I respect was is good about our country but do not delude myself of what we truely are and what we represent, which is mainly greed, overconsumption, whacko puritanical beliefs, christian empire won be genocide, and of course the real flag, the almighty dollar.

 

[piasabird]

It represents the people who died so you can be free to say whatever you want.

It helps one to remember that freedom is not free.

Both the Liberal and the conservative Agenda deserves to be closely watched to insure this freedom exists for the next generation.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: piasabird

It helps one to remember that freedom is not free.

Then they should take the free part out of the word or give me my money back.

 

[Genx87]

I see the douchebags on the left are tossing out their typical mantra about people who get feelings from looking at the flag are brainwashed and it is a symbol of imperialism.

Funny how they all have the same responses yet everybody else is brainwashed.

As for the flag? To me it represents the hopes and dreams of the ideals of liberalism. Even if under attack through the decades by all ideologies internal and external the flag and our country continues to stand.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I see the douchebags on the left are tossing out their typical mantra about people who get feelings from looking at the flag are brainwashed

It is nothing but idol worship, let me guess, you get hungry like a pavlonian dog when you see a mc ds sign also? Good thats what the powers want.

It takes a lot more then that to uphold a democracy then knee jerk patriotism as you get marched off a cliff.

Reality:
"Liberty and Justice for all -Disclaimer: for who can afford it

Indivisible from the fall of Rome"

300 years is not that long and this country has changed many times in that period so as that this country is unrecognizeable from how it started anyway.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Citrix
WTF at the responses in here. Have any of you who responded by bashing the flag ever been to another country?


<<<VFW member

Yes....many. But what does that have to do with how we feel our flag has been co-opted to be nothing more than a rallying symbol?

Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is a horrible place to live? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country is infallible? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't have room for improvement? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country still doesn't offer the best opportunity for a happy life for a person? No.
Does having these feelings mean that we think our country doesn't offer anything good to us and the rest of the world? No.

You have become what I was referring to in my original post....a brainwashed idiolog who can't separate the rhetoric from reality. The flag means absolutely nothing. The ideas behind it are what are either projected or compromised. Those are the things to which we speak of.

Edit: Grammatical error.

You don?t know a damn thing about me and you call me a brainwashed idiolog?

as far as your weak ass argument about the 2% 200K well no sh*t Sherlock. There are two reason why a person joins the military. 1. Money for college. If your family makes that kind of money the person doesn?t need to join the military for college money (unless parents cut them off) and the other reason he/she just wants to server their country.

From your other post, im happy to tell you that you are the one who is brainwashed, we live in a great country. You say you don?t need a piece of cloth to tell you how you feel. Well buddy you are right you don?t, because you just don?t understand that a flag is a symbol of a country. If you feel that the sacrifices that men and women have laid down over the past 200+ years so that you can be afforded the opportunities you have today mean nothing to you, then you have hold no value in anything but your own greedy self righteous self.

Once again, you confuse the feelings for the symbol. The flag does not validate or invalidate your feelings. It just gives you something that you need to be able to recognize that you have them. I personally don't need that same symbol to have those same feelings.

I can gather a lot more information to base my opinion on about how this country is to be perceived via the internet than I can from looking at a single flag. I can have a deeper appreciation for the sacrifices that others made for this country by reading about them in history books than by looking at a flag.

You are brainwashed into believing that you HAVE to feel those emotions when you see a flag so that leaders can pull at those heartstrings to invoke a specific feeling (good or bad) when they need to get you to support or oppose a particular issue.

Reality to you in regards to this issue appears to be:

Burning flag == bad
Raising flag == good

For those that are based in a free-thinking reality world.....the flag isn't a symbol of what makes a country great or bad and burning it or raising it means little. The people that directly represent it are the "symbols" that show the world how we are doing as a society.

I'm guessing from your post that you think that America can do wrong. Not as long as they are able to wave a flag in front of you to get you to remember the sacrifices of those past so that those present can pick your pocket.

Bingo, I think I found your problem. Although a great tool the internet is also a place of many fabricated lies, half truths, and demented individuals.
Try just looking at the flag and take a break from the daily kos and moveon.org type websites!

 

[Moonbeam]

The flag represents a tiny fragment of the infinite love joy and bliss that wash through my being. It is a facet of a divine crystal ray, a beam of fractured light emanating from the source of all being, a concatenation of the flowing echo that resonates and animates my being. It is an inverse filamental representation of all that is holy and good and American. And it is a red white and blue piece of cloth.

 

[ebaycj]

As long as GWB is president, the American flag represents terrorism.

 

[Enig101]

As this thread shows, a flag can mean a lot of different things. Some people see it as a symbol of history, others see it as just a symbol of the country as a whole, and some see it as a symbol of the government in particular. A flag is just a picture in the end, and people (and context) give it meaning.

When it is burned it is usually an attack on the government, though it could also be the country itself. I find it amusing that people take offense when someone burns a flag because the flag represents "heroes and history". As I see it that is almost certainly taking it out of context. As far as I'm concerned, if you get upset about someone burning a symbol, you should consider why they are actually burning it.

I tend to regard flags as symbols of a country and/or it's government. As such I could hardly care less if one is burned, even if it is my own country's (and I do love my country). On the other hand, it is an offensive gesture regardless of aim, and I would not support any flag burning at all.

 

[Pastore]

A bunch of politicians (from both the left and the right) in a giant circle jerk.