What does "HDCP compliant" really mean? Multi-monitor HTPC setups

[BonzaiDuck]

People like bradly1101 may be too familiar with my little frets lately -- enough to become exasperated.

Here's the scenario.

I have a 20-year-old Belkin Omni-View 4-port KVM switch I'm still using. It passes through an analog VGA signal perfectly well to my 1920x1080 (otherwise HD and digital-capable) monitor. Two of the machines are also connected to either my HDTV or my AVR with passthrough to the same TV.

They have WMC enabled for HDCP content through cable-TV.

THEREFORE, the two computers appear -- both in NVidia Control Panel and in Media Center -- as HDCP-ready. This is because of the AVR/TV hookup.

I'm "lookin' at" a bi-directional HDMI switcher (Sewell IBIS) and a 4-port DVI-digital-only HDCP-compliant KVM switch. The switcher is approximately $25; the KVM is about $180 after shipping and tax.

Before I make these upgrades, I have this . . .possibly naïve . . question.

If I drag Media Center from the "preferred display" (HDCP-compliant HDTV) to the desktop (analog 1920x1080) -- how would it . . could it . . . should it -- develop some "problem" if I view MC and HD broadcasts on the (non-HDCP) desktop monitor?

Figure I could easily upgrade the KVM -- furchrissake -- it's been 20 YEARS on this Belkin!!

Or I could supplement the Belkin with the IBIS switcher.

Or I could merely wait and save some money.

But I'm still wondering. What is the problem with viewing MC on the (otherwise HD) desktop monitor?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

UPDATE: Decided to move forward and order hardware.

The IOGEAR GCS1104 KVM seems to be the best and most expensive option, at something between $175 and $190 if adding shipping with tax.

Instead, I'm betting on the Sewell Direct SW-8876-3 IBIS 3x1/1x3 HDMI switch and some Blue-Rigger cables of just the right length.

I can put the Sewell on top of my old Belkin switch, and give myself two buttons to push instead of one to cycle between the PCs.

With cables, that costs me less than $60 total, with free shipping to arrive sometime during 1st week March. When the Belkin gives out, Or as I'm inclined, I can replace it with the IOGEAR -- later. For the mouse and keyboard, the Belkin still works fine.

Nice thing about the 3x1/1x3 Sewell switch: It requires no power of its own. So I don't add a need for an available AC port on my UPS, and doesn't add to the clutter.

 

[Aikouka]

If I drag Media Center from the "preferred display" (HDCP-compliant HDTV) to the desktop (analog 1920x1080) -- how would it . . could it . . . should it -- develop some "problem" if I view MC and HD broadcasts on the (non-HDCP) desktop monitor?

The screen will go all blue and tell you that it requires a HDCP-compliant monitor. Keep in mind that the text is technically false. It requires a HDCP-compliant DVI or HDMI monitor. DisplayPort, while being HDCP compliant, is not supported in Windows Media Center.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The screen will go all blue and tell you that it requires a HDCP-compliant monitor. Keep in mind that the text is technically false. It requires a HDCP-compliant DVI or HDMI monitor. DisplayPort, while being HDCP compliant, is not supported in Windows Media Center.

That's good enough confirmation from a forum veteran "in-the-know." And that's why I was apprehensive about experimenting with it further. I've avoided using DisplayPort for anything.

Sometimes we need to spend some ducats to "fix things," but it only makes sense to spend no more than needed to get the job done. I can tell myself that it's time to replace the old Belkin KVM -- true. And for what I paid 20 years ago for each Belkin KVM -- ~$250 -- an upgrade 20 years later for ~$180 would seem reasonable.

But -- why? The Belkin even works with PS/2-to-USB converter plugs and cables. As far as mouse, keyboard and ANALOG VGA is concerned -- it works great.

I've seen enough cus-reviews and forums where someone had supplemented their KVM with an HDMI switch. The biggest worry with that arises from a "dropped" signal, but folks aren't complaining about either the Monoprice switch or the Sewell bi-directional units. Not so much of an inconvenience: I can switch the Belkin at the keyboard and then tap the button on the HDMI switcher.

So it's a gamble. $57 for the switch and some premium cables might just work reliably. If it doesn't, I can re-deploy the switch to the HT/AVR/HDTV, but I'll be faced with the prospect of ordering the IOGEAR GCS1104 KVM. And the total expense will have been ~$60 more than just getting the KVM in the first place. @ ~$33, the HDMI switch seems more worth keeping than returning, because I can already see a different use for it.

Of course, if it works out, I could order another one as desired . . . when I NEED a second one.

I guess the big question with the HDMI bi-directional switch hinges on how it behaves with sleep and hibernation states . . .

 

[poofyhairguy]

I feel you BonzaiDuck, handshake issues are a nightmare. I sometimes very much miss old analog VGA, even if it meant all my cables had to be thick and shielded. My 64 inch plasma is VERY picky about the handshake, I have to do this reset dance with my equipment to get it to work, and then prey it doesn't change before my wife touches it. It can be a pain.

I also get you on the wasted money bit. My 4K screen in my kitchen has had all kinds of handshake issues when turning it off and on- sometimes it would require a power cycle of the system to come back on. I thought the problem was the mini-displayport cable I was using, so I replaced it with a nice long displayport cable only for the exact same problem to crop up. I kept the more expensive cable almost out of stubbornness, and now I just leave the screen on 24/7 as punishment for having such crappy internals.

Unlike the old days where if it worked on paper it should work, in this new digital world you sometimes don't know until you try. Which doesn't help you I just thought I would commiserate.

 

[Aikouka]

I had a bunch of issues with my NUC as a HTPC where I kept losing sound randomly after turning the TV+AVR off and then back on. It was incredibly frustrating given that my Ivy Bridge i3 worked great downstairs, and said PC was originally upstairs where the NUC then resided. I ended up building a gaming HTPC, replacing the i3 downstairs, and moving that i3 upstairs in place of the NUC. I've had no issues since then.

Although, I do recall NVIDIA having a weird issue in the past with HDCP. WMC would always tell me that I didn't have a HDCP compliant system if I did not open the NVIDIA Control Panel and navigate to the HDCP page first. As long as I did that, WMC worked great. It was definitely quite odd, but I haven't noticed that issue with this current setup.

Poofy, you might want to look into getting a Gefen HDMI Detective. I originally bought one to fix my NUC's problem, but since I replaced it, I ended up returning it. Anyway, it will store the EDID, which avoids the HTPC having issues with improper handshaking. The only downside is that it costs $80.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I had a bunch of issues with my NUC as a HTPC where I kept losing sound randomly after turning the TV+AVR off and then back on. It was incredibly frustrating given that my Ivy Bridge i3 worked great downstairs, and said PC was originally upstairs where the NUC then resided. I ended up building a gaming HTPC, replacing the i3 downstairs, and moving that i3 upstairs in place of the NUC. I've had no issues since then.

Although, I do recall NVIDIA having a weird issue in the past with HDCP. WMC would always tell me that I didn't have a HDCP compliant system if I did not open the NVIDIA Control Panel and navigate to the HDCP page first. As long as I did that, WMC worked great. It was definitely quite odd, but I haven't noticed that issue with this current setup.

Poofy, you might want to look into getting a Gefen HDMI Detective. I originally bought one to fix my NUC's problem, but since I replaced it, I ended up returning it. Anyway, it will store the EDID, which avoids the HTPC having issues with improper handshaking. The only downside is that it costs $80.

Both the Sewell IBIS Hdmi switch and the IOGear GCS1104 KVM are supposed to be HDCP compliant. Several of the customer reviews I looked at assert that the IBIS is what Sewell says it is, but for both devices there was always someone who said "it isn't."

But if it shows up properly in NVidia Control Panel as HDCP-ready . . . . it would seem that "it is." It shouldn't matter what the meaning of "is" is. . .

I'll just have to wait until the switch and cables arrive. Yesterday I felt like saving money on shipping; today I wish I'd paid for "2-day."

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'll try and keep a lower profile on the threads and forums. It seems that threads I've posted look at different but overlapping aspects of topics and issues.

I was surprised. Amazon told me the switch and cables won't arrive until after 3/2. Here it is only 2/25, and the package was on the doorstep before noon today.

If you are only looking at this post or haven't followed the thread, we're talking about the Sewell IBIS bi-directional 3x1 1x3 HDMI Switch for supplementing an old KVM switch purchased around 1995.

I'll get back about results with this, if anyone interested.

This is a major leap -- if it works.

==LATER . . ==

O-KAYYY!! This may definitely be useful information across a couple forums, but here it is.

Every hook-up or configuration, better -- every choice -- has its quirks. You have to evaluate the quirks and decide whether you will accommodate yourself to them. One of the quirks I started with was the analog VGA fouling up a universal HDCP-compliance for a single computer.

The Sewell IBIS definitely solves that problem. What I had to do was integrate my old '95 Belkin KVM with the Sewell. What quirks does this produce? I'll tell ya.

The HDMI switch seems to act like a USB "removeable" device. The notification sounds are the same. What happens with this, if -- perchance -- you're watching HDTV on a secondary monitor/HDTV and your desktop is on the primary connected to the IBIS. Switching to another system hooked up to the same desktop primary lets you continue watching HDTV on PC#1's secondary monitor. The device manages the changeover for PC#2 very well. The quirk is in managing the return.

Switching back, you find that both Media Center (showing on the secondary monitor) and the primary are merged. At this point -- in the RETURN transition -- you have to drag the Media Center back to the secondary device.

HOWEVER. As long as the resolutions are the same -- the only way I've observed it so far -- all the icons, gadgets and windows remain on the primary.

But as far as switching from one computer to the other, all using the same primary monitor, this works fine. You just have press two buttons, or switch PC's first through the keyboard, then with the HDMI switch.

But now, there's total HDCP compliance for all monitors connected to all computers through the IBIS. And you didn't spend $190 to replace your 20-year-old ($250) KVM switch -- which still works. Further, where there is no particular concern for complete HDCP compliance, you can hook this or that PC up to the analog-VGA for a different (second or [in my case] third) monitor.

I think there's a lot you can do with this, if you're willing to suffer the little extra trouble to restore running apps like MC to its original monitor display.

Then, there's also going to be a slight problem in the switch-back with any HDMI sound going to the AVR/HDTV or HDTV. And this is likely to be fixed -- again -- either of two ways: you can switch sound systems with the Audio-Renderer-Updater application, or you can merely drag MC back to its "preferred" display.

So you have to ask yourself whether adding a device with no extra power-brick requirement to your KVM is going to work for you, or you'd rather spend an extra $150 and throw away a perfectly good piece of equipment.

Those of us who work with the old KVMs also know about your PS/2-to-USB plug/adapters, or the single USB "Y" connector to two PS/2 plugs. All that stuff works, and you either learn to live with the quirks, you choose to live with the quirks, or you take your money and / OR time (!) and move on to something else.

If I don't have any dropped signals or corrupted graphics with the Sewell, I gotta say -- this is nice. Very nice.

Now I'm also wondering how all this would play out by using different PC graphics output ports -- particularly different graphics cards. For instance -- the onboard Intel 3xxx or 4xxx together with a dGPU attached to a different monitor through KVM or IBIS.

I'm only guessing that would get rid of a "quirk." Or it's at least worth thinking about. Proof of the pudding will only come through extended usage. I guess I"ll find out, won't I?

== "MORE LATER . . . " = =

The quirks! Neato! You don't have to drag anything to the other display output! You just minimize MC and then "restore" it again -- it pops up on the "preferred [MC] display! And -- A-A-ND! -- the connections some rock-solid.

You can KEEP your OLD . . . K . . V . . M, folks!

So . . . Hard-core Media Center geeks, gaming fetishists!! I GOT . . . TEEE . . VEE!! Every . . Freakin' . . . where and which-a-way!

 

[Burpo]

"You don't need to ditch your gear just yet. HDCP 2.2 is essentially about UltraHD 4K copy protection. So for now anyone with (or buying) a non-4K 1080p TV doesn't need to worry. Once we start seeing more widely available 4K content, it will be more of an issue."

http://www.cnet.com/news/hdcp-2-2-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[BonzaiDuck]

"You don't need to ditch your gear just yet. HDCP 2.2 is essentially about UltraHD 4K copy protection. So for now anyone with (or buying) a non-4K 1080p TV doesn't need to worry. Once we start seeing more widely available 4K content, it will be more of an issue."

http://www.cnet.com/news/hdcp-2-2-what-you-need-to-know/

Well, I try to hold my head up in these forums. I've only been "HD-enabled" since around 2009. You've got all these 98-percenters out there with their HDTVs and their COSTCO computers -- of which there is some number who fit Anand-forum profiles of bleeding-edge-addiction. You've got those 47-percenters who are going to squeeze the last breath out of any such investment they make. I think the TVs can last ten years or longer. I've got a non-HD, "digital-ready" LCD 4:3 monitor here that's already passed the ten-year mark, and I'm trying to continue using it for certain things.

The cable-companies aren't going to lock out that wider market. You should be able to continue to play games that are worth their salt in regular HD mode. Figure the extent of your household computing inventory is like ballast: you have to make decisions for the long-run, the short-run, and the current inventory.

Our colleagues here are sort of like John the Baptist -- announcing what is yet to happen. Especially your remark about owning or "buying" a 1080p TV is relevant. Just sort through all the PC monitors and TVs available at the Egg, look at the price differentials between the "curve" and your $500 LCD-LED. How many different types of 1080p monitors and TVs are they still selling? What's the asking price? And the converse of that?

It's a "market landscape."

 

[Burpo]

Yeah, I'm old school too. My 60" Plasma has already exceeded it's supposed 65,000 hr "1/2 life"... shrug..
Works for me & no worries about copy protected content.. Don't need the latest & greatest..

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yeah, I'm old school too. My 60" Plasma has already exceeded it's supposed 65,000 hr "1/2 life"... shrug..
Works for me & no worries about copy protected content.. Don't need the latest & greatest..

Have you ever been a bit impressed with the egalitarian civility of our forums here?

On the one hand, somebody who spends top dollar on top-end hardware may say something like this when you say you've just invested in a GTX 970: "Well . . . I regard that as sufficiently low-end I wouldn't bother."

That's their observation about themselves, and not you.

But nobody says "Why don't you invest in more expensive hardware and ditch that piece of crap you're using!?"

But this durable-goods-investment perspective applies even for those with bigger pockets or more ducats in their wallets. My brother invested in a beeg, beeg "projection-style" Hitachi HDTV around 1999 or 2000 == if I'm incorrect, it wouldn't have been too much later than that. He's still rocking it, as far as I can tell. Sure -- they have LCD-LED in other "essential" rooms. But while home-entertainment technology is important enough to him that he'd spring for something like that Hitachi so early in the game, it's not such an obsession that he's going out any time soon to drop $4,000 on an 80" Samsung "Curve" to get 4K. He isn't going to get a smaller 4K to replace the Hitachi; I think he'd balk at dumping the Hitachi for a 4K screen-size equivalent. Rooms are only so big, and TV only needs to be so big to accommodate a "10-foot experience."

If his priorities were just a bit different, he might do it. But he'd also likely assess how much "extra" he's going to get for that $4,000, as a difference over what he's already got.

Everybody is different, but there are a lot of everybodies.

 

[jdoggg12]

NM, wrong thread, sorrry