what does a state govt shutdown really mean?

[BlahBlahYouToo]

It would mean that New York’s agencies would not be permitted to pay salaries or issue unemployment benefits to some half a million New Yorkers. Aides to Mr. Paterson have concluded that the state would have to close most of its offices immediately, as well as courts and parks; shut down the state lottery; and cease local assistance payments to municipal governments. Notwithstanding a flurry of stimulus-related construction projects, the state would also be unable to pay contractors.

so a lot of people won't be getting paid, which sounds like a recipe for massive rioting, looting and violence.
who is going to control the crowds? state police won't be operational right?
local law enforcement? the feds?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

so a lot of people won't be getting paid, which sounds like a recipe for massive rioting, looting and violence.
who is going to control the crowds? state police won't be operational right?
local law enforcement? the feds?

It's a calculated tactic by Paterson. In effect he's saying that he'll blackmail people who don't go along with his budget by slashing everything that's clearly beneficial so that which may be superfluous escapes scrutiny.

 

[QuantumPion]

It means the government will hire groundskeepers to close public parks that previously had no staff. The purpose of which is simply to create public visibility and outrage ("what, the park is closed? damn you republicans for not signing the budget!").

Similarly, the government will threaten to reduce police protection and garbage collection unless you go along with their massive union welfare spending bills.

 

[MotF Bane]

Every group of politicians does the same thing. Cut the essential services, the profitable services, and try to punish the disagreeable legislature or those unruly peasants (read: taxpayers) into caving in. Pay no attention to the thousands, millions, or billions wasted in other sectors. Don't mind those fat contracts given to their buddies and political supporters. Ignore the growing bureaucracy, with all of its administrators, secretaries - sorry, administrative assistants, and other associated paper-pushers. Disregard the expanding welfare system, the increasing unemployment payments, and so on. Pass our budget, or we'll just keep cutting the essential things. The firefighters, the police, trash services, streetlights (Concord, MA), and best of all, teachers. Never the school administrative side, just the teachers in the classrooms. Those parks that bring in revenue by charging admission? We'll close those, because people like the parks. It's the same story, repeated all over the place, towns, cities, states, and the feds.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

so what you're saying is that it's a scare tactic to get state senators to vote for his proposed (useless) budget cuts.
that a state will never shut down.

that my doomsday scenario will not take place and i don't have to keep my glock lock and loaded.

 

[nick1985]

Paterson is a great governor.

 

[nonlnear]

Paterson is a great governor.

He is certainly a much better governor than this state deserves.

 

[Genx87]

I think the state of MN shut down about a decade ago. Honestly I didnt see a difference. Yeah state parks were closed but I visit them about once a decade.

 

[Carmen813]

It means the state passes another emergency spending bill (i.e., borrows).

 

[rudder]

so what you're saying is that it's a scare tactic to get state senators to vote for his proposed (useless) budget cuts.
that a state will never shut down.

that my doomsday scenario will not take place and i don't have to keep my glock lock and loaded.

Tennessee has a balanced budget amendment and if a budget is not passed by July 1st, the state government shuts down. All non essential state employees stay home. The last time this happened was 7 or 8 years ago. State police report to work as does each municipality as they are on different budgets.

The last time after about 3-4 days, the State offices opened again and employees got their back pay.

It forces the legislators hands to get something done quickly. The public gets pissed fast when the already slow government offices are completely closed.

 

[IGBT]

at any given time. New York under the best of circumstances, is always 24 hours away from cannibalism.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Non essential employees will get sent home with no pay.

Contractors can gamble and continue working with the expectation that they will get paid when the budget crisis is resolved or stop work until they are told to resume by the contracting officer.

Some construction contracts get paid on a work completed basis so they can go 1-2 weeks of government shutdown without it impacting their anticipated cash flow.

 

[StageLeft]

I wish it would happen, I really, really do.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He is certainly a much better governor than this state deserves.

That may be true for the southeastern part of the state.

It's remarkable that one of the first things he shuts down is the $150 million dollar park system which brings in two billion. Politicians here have no idea how to run a government.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I wish it would happen, I really, really do.

The first thing that needs to go is any compensation or perks for the politicians. No state vehicles. No paid anything. Everything out of their pockets and oh yeah, no income either.

 

[nonlnear]

That may be true for the southeastern part of the state.

It's remarkable that one of the first things he shuts down is the $150 million dollar park system which brings in two billion. Politicians here have no idea how to run a government.

What I really don't understand is why the state of New York doesn't just split in two. NYC already runs its own schools, colleges, etc. so it would be about as painless as a state divorce could ever be. As far as I can tell everyone on both sides would be happier to get a government that is more responsive to their needs. Not to mention extra Senate power for everyone. It's a win-win all 'round: for the people and the politicians. Now that's rare!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What I really don't understand is why the state of New York doesn't just split in two. NYC already runs its own schools, colleges, etc. so it would be about as painless as a state divorce could ever be. As far as I can tell everyone on both sides would be happier to get a government that is more responsive to their needs. Not to mention extra Senate power for everyone. It's a win-win all 'round: for the people and the politicians. Now that's rare!

We can't have that because it would mean a loss of control and income. Most states who have our level of services do so at a much lower tax rate. Well the Upstate part of NY that is.

The reality is that our taxes are the highest in the nation. The rest of the state won't let it's cash cow escape.

 

[nonlnear]

Because that would mean a loss of control and income. Most states who have our level of services do so at a much lower tax rate. Well the Upstate part of NY that is.

The reality is that our taxes are the highest in the nation. The rest of the state won't let it's cash cow escape.

I don't know if this is or is not the case, but it's a pattern of political rhetoric that I see in many places. There are many MANY regions that believe they are being used as a cash cow for some other region. Ironically this same argument is often used in the opposite direction at he same time. (This next sentence is blind conjecture so please correct me if I'm wrong.) I would guess that a couple years ago prior to the latest crash New York City would have complained that upstate NY was a fat leech for milking the fat tax base of NYC's financial sector.

I used to take the arguments of the form you posed at face value when I heard them on the assumption that people who cared about government tended to stick to the best arguments available to them. (A ridiculous proposition when stated so bluntly. Embarrassingly so! ) Now I'm a little more cautious when the "tax cash cow" claim is made. It may well be true, but it's generally not as simple as just adding up the more obvious revenues and expenditures. There are many hidden financial flows in government which are not explicitly tracked as revenues or expenses. Tracking it all down to get a properly comprehensive picture is quite a Herculean task. My general assumption is that regions are generally not all that far from revenue neutral in terms of their operating budgets. I haven't seen a compelling reason to believe this is not the case for upstate/downstate NY. (Granted I haven't taken the effort to truly investigate the matter so I'm not claiming any authority on the point.)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't know if this is or is not the case, but it's a pattern of political rhetoric that I see in many places. There are many MANY regions that believe they are being used as a cash cow for some other region. Ironically this same argument is often used in the opposite direction at he same time. (This next sentence is blind conjecture so please correct me if I'm wrong.) I would guess that a couple years ago prior to the latest crash New York City would have complained that upstate NY was a fat leech for milking the fat tax base of NYC's financial sector.

I used to take the arguments of the form you posed at face value when I heard them on the assumption that people who cared about government tended to stick to the best arguments available to them. (A ridiculous proposition when stated so bluntly. Embarrassingly so! ) Now I'm a little more cautious when the "tax cash cow" claim is made. It may well be true, but it's generally not as simple as just adding up the more obvious revenues and expenditures. There are many hidden financial flows in government which are not explicitly tracked as revenues or expenses. Tracking it all down to get a properly comprehensive picture is quite a Herculean task. My general assumption is that regions are generally not all that far from revenue neutral in terms of their operating budgets. I haven't seen a compelling reason to believe this is not the case for upstate/downstate NY. (Granted I haven't taken the effort to truly investigate the matter so I'm not claiming any authority on the point.)

Have a look at our tax rates in western NY. I didn't say what I did with hyperbole in mind. Cross the state lines west of us and look at similar surroundings and you'll find that few are spending 8k in taxes on a 200k home. I've lived in many states and I am paying far more here than in any other I've lived in.

 

[Hacp]

Why should public sector workers be able to work 30 years, then get paid 40 years doing nothing? It just doesn't make sense. We need to get rid of collective bargaining ASAP or this country will end up like Greece.

 

[Carmen813]

Why should public sector workers be able to work 30 years, then get paid 40 years doing nothing? It just doesn't make sense. We need to get rid of collective bargaining ASAP or this country will end up like Greece.

You are quite delusional if you think that is even remotely close to the norm.

 

[nonlnear]

Have a look at our tax rates in western NY. I didn't say what I did with hyperbole in mind. Cross the state lines west of us and look at similar surroundings and you'll find that few are spending 8k in taxes on a 200k home.

Oh I know they're high. I wasn't objecting to that. I was simply reluctant to follow the claim that the money flow is a huge one way arrow towards NYC. Taxes are high upstate, but AFAIK they're even higher in NYC. Just looking at the taxes vs. services equation it's easy to conclude that the money must be going somewhere else, but it's not always that simple. upstate NY is full of businesses being paid off not to leave by various waiver programs which are often not counted as expenditures. That coupled with the - er - unique medicare/medicaid funding setup they have with the counties and it's really quite difficult to compare the tax picture directly with other states if all you're looking at is the raw revenues compared to the service level.

 

[piasabird]

Just call out the national guard and send all the state employees home. Who cares? Most of the country does not live in New York. Just put up a wall around it and close it for good. If they cant figure out how to make payroll, someone else should be running it.