Hopefully some Muslim members here could chime in and speculate on the response to the nuclear destruction of Mecca and/or Medina
Alot of people would die.
We can all debate how and where the US would respond (and how many more people would die), but it all ends in the same thing: Lot's of people dying.
The real question is: If such a thing happened, how many people would ultimately die worldwide and in what fashion?
I'm not really sure what this argument is about, to be frank. I hate to be rude but the last post by yours is not logical, your conclusion about ends and means is emotive at best and without premise.
Anyway, I don't know what else to tell you.
They are closer to generals than serial killers with respect to their tactical and strategic behavior.
SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
- 2,422
- 3
- 76
Don't you think that SOME symmetry has to be maintained? I mean, what should happen, in your eyes, before total war is declared on Islam? Isn't a nuclear blast on a US city good enough of a reason?
I have no grudge against Muslims, I mean, I'd love to exist in peace and harmony, but I know that just isn't possible with the direction they're heading to.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
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well the sh*t would finally hit the fan for all those that go around chanting death to america. u know those people only do it because its pretty consequence free. welll supporting terror would finally hit them in the ass. a surrender or die ultimatim in the middle east would probably happen. failed civilization, they need to be ruled over or killed. they give up right to self rule until they demonstrate their society is free from the poison of that religion. that would be the "fair" response. the other one would involve perhaps a thousand icbms. with a worldwide reaction of "anger", but really silent relief they dont' have to deal with that region ever again.
think u overestimate the size of a nuke blast.
think u overestimate the size of a nuke blast.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
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Large prtions of the Afghan / Pakistan border are turned into glass.
North Korea is placed on notice, as are the other Nuclear players, that now is the time to shut the f**k up and sit down.
North Korea is placed on notice, as are the other Nuclear players, that now is the time to shut the f**k up and sit down.
Well Frackal, as a muslim, I find comments like
"islam, the religion of peace. those nice fellows would never harm us! gosh!"
"My point exactly. They ARE mindless bloodthirsty maniacs. And like all mindless bloodthirsty maniacs, once they start doing it, they want to keep doing it. Just like any psychopathic serial murderers."
"and then nuclear bombing of Mecca and Medinna. Just hurt them where it matters. They want our symbols? Lets get theirs."
these mildly amusing. If educated people from the world's largest superpower think like this, I don't see what's wrong with all these terrorists who come from some of the most backward, illiterate, oppressed and troubled nations in the world. Over one billion people are responsible for the acts of the Al-Qaeda? Why the hell do I need to offer an explanation for the act of some psychotic terrorist organization?
If by knowing Al-Qaeda you think you know Islam, then knowing Adolf Hitler is all I need to know about Christianity.
If 9/11/01 leads you to believe all muslims are mindless bloodthirsty maniacs, then 8/6/1945 and 8/9/1945 is all I need to know about America's contribution to humanity. Or why go that far in history when I can just look at Iraq.
But of course, I will not...shall not...can not stoop to that insanely stupid level of ignorant stereotyping of entire cultures. But I will answer your question, Frackal.
Muslims take their religion very seriously because we believe the Revelations of the Quran leave no doubt about who God really is. Muslims just can't tolerate any kind of insult to their religion and their people. It might be okay for Americans to make all their "Buddy Christ" & "This makes Baby Jesus Cry" jokes....it is not for muslim people. Just try and understand this. Americans like to believe one American life is more precious than 100 non-American lives. 3000 American lives lost on 9/11 is the biggest turning point in the history of the universe...40,000 dead Iraqi civilians is collateral damage. Quite frankly, muslims do hate America (as in the government). The ones who have lost everything they had - family, home, land - are the ones who carry out suicide bombings. These are people that have been pushed so far over the edge, that they now have the mentality, "I'm gonna die anyway...might as well take a few of the enemy along with me"
The problem with these idiots is they keep striking civilian targets (which is completely against the teachings of Islam). A Muslim soldier is only allowed to meet his enemy on a battlefield. A Muslim soldier is only allowed to strike an enemy who is a voluntary soldier of the opposing army who poses a mortal threat. This is the part all the terrorists no longer care about, because quite frankly, what they are doing isn't Jihad...at all. Al-Qaeda is not a Jihadi organisation with religious motives...it's all political. They hate Israel and the US/UK: not Christians & Jews.
I have a feeling most of the Radical Islamic Terrorists were directly (adversely) affected by the countries that they plan their terror strikes against. Blow up Mecca & Medina...I promise you, 1 billion people WILL go postal. That is the truth and I'm not going to deny it.
Of course, Bush still hasn't tracked down OBL and dismantled the Al-Qaeda like he said he would. This worries me because
1) Al Qaeda has seriously screwed the lives of billions of people - Muslim as well as Non-Muslim
2) Bush is very capable of, "Can't find OBL? Let's bomb Iran. They nuked us? We still can't dismantle Al-Qaeda? Let's nuke Mecca instead" :disgust:
I hate religious debate because never has anyone actually changed their opinion or stand and after a certain point, it loses objectivity. It leads to endless flaming and bitching. Why bother? Everybody in the world wants the same things: house, job, car, family, education, peace, healthcare, freedom, etc. And most people do want to get along. It's only governments and the love of money/power that causes all the sh!t the world goes through today.
It would be the precursor to something far more worse then nuclear war, I'm talking about 4 more years for Bush. 
dang, that's quotable
but why can't the muslim govts. get Bin Laden? why does it have to be Bush/USA?
seems to me if he is really in Northern Pakistan, if the Pakistan Govt AND the Pakistan people would back up the govt. doing it, then they could go get him
Metron
Golden Member
- Oct 16, 2003
- 1,163
- 0
- 0
I think there is one fatal flaw in your logic here...
While Christians (and most sentient beings) almost universally denounce, decry, and despise the actions of Adolf Hitler, just the opposite seems to be true among Muslims with their praise for Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden is held in a position of reverence and respect by the majority of Muslims. Hitler is regarded by Christians as a genocidal maniac.
Your tangential characterization of radical Islamic terrorists is meek at best... why can't you just say what they did was wrong? Why does the world not see Muslims globally denouncing the actions of Bin Laden?
*edited for clarity*
Those three qualities listed do not exclude OBL from being Psycho or sociopathic. I would think that Patient and Calculating might even be markers for those less desirable characteristics.
First off, I wanted to thank you for responding on a tough day to a tough topic for a tough audience.
But what Bin Laden has called for is defensive Jihad. Is it not the duty of every Muslim to provide whatever support they are capable of if they determine that the conditions for a defensive Jihad are met? (ie, Muslim people, land, wealth, religion under assault)
I believe it was Qutb who originated the theological justifications for what Al Qaeda and Bin Laden are doing? Doctrinally correct or not.
Certainly, that is not the case
Yes, I do well understand it. That is one problem with the mixing of secular western Christianity with Islam. There is, as far as I know, no serious tradition of separation of religion (ie, Church) and law (ie, State) in Islam. The sticky part becomes when in our societies, we act based upon our values, (ie, like those pictures of the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him ) with the bomb) and Muslims respond according to theirs.
I do think it is acceptable for Muslims to live their own way in their own traditional lands. The sticky part comes from the mixing of our two cultures. When "we" are in "your" lands and vice versa.
Yes this is unfortunate. Essentially, Americans/westerners tend to believe that deaths caused by their actions are justified according to our values, while the Islamists too believe that deaths caused by their actions are justified according to their values.
I know they do. Afghanistan and especially Iraq made things far worse in that regard.
My reading about them tells differently. Would you address the "defensive Jihad" I mentioned? I'm curious for your thoughts on it.
I know, some have suggested that as a form of MAD, ie, one of the only things that they Islamists care about and would not wish to lose, but frankly I'm not sure that's a good way to go because I do agree as you said, it would cause a horrendous response.
btw, Bin Laden was not much personally affected by, and in fact financially benefitted from the status quo in SA. Zawahiri had a tougher time in Egypt but he too was from a wealthy background that was presumably doing well under the govt. of Sadat.
My goal is to understand as much as possible about Islam, the Islamists, etcetera. I don't think this needs to reach a rehash of Christian culture versus Islamic culture, particularly with today's weapons.
But what Bin Laden has called for is defensive Jihad. Is it not the duty of every Muslim to provide whatever support they are capable of if they determine that the conditions for a defensive Jihad are met? (ie, Muslim people, land, wealth, religion under assault)
I believe it was Qutb who originated the theological justifications for what Al Qaeda and Bin Laden are doing? Doctrinally correct or not.
Certainly, that is not the case
Yes, I do well understand it. That is one problem with the mixing of secular western Christianity with Islam. There is, as far as I know, no serious tradition of separation of religion (ie, Church) and law (ie, State) in Islam. The sticky part becomes when in our societies, we act based upon our values, (ie, like those pictures of the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him
) with the bomb) and Muslims respond according to theirs.I do think it is acceptable for Muslims to live their own way in their own traditional lands. The sticky part comes from the mixing of our two cultures. When "we" are in "your" lands and vice versa.
Yes this is unfortunate. Essentially, Americans/westerners tend to believe that deaths caused by their actions are justified according to our values, while the Islamists too believe that deaths caused by their actions are justified according to their values.
I know they do. Afghanistan and especially Iraq made things far worse in that regard.
My reading about them tells differently. Would you address the "defensive Jihad" I mentioned? I'm curious for your thoughts on it.
I know, some have suggested that as a form of MAD, ie, one of the only things that they Islamists care about and would not wish to lose, but frankly I'm not sure that's a good way to go because I do agree as you said, it would cause a horrendous response.
btw, Bin Laden was not much personally affected by, and in fact financially benefitted from the status quo in SA. Zawahiri had a tougher time in Egypt but he too was from a wealthy background that was presumably doing well under the govt. of Sadat.
My goal is to understand as much as possible about Islam, the Islamists, etcetera. I don't think this needs to reach a rehash of Christian culture versus Islamic culture, particularly with today's weapons.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
Blah blah blah, leaders from Muslim governments always denounce or decry the loss of life from terrorist acts, with the exception of a notable few (Iran, Syria).
If you want all Muslims globally to do the same, bust out your phone book and start calling them yourself.
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