What do you think were real reasons for war?

Jani

Senior member
Dec 24, 1999
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Please no flame wars. Respect other opinions too even if you don't agree those.

I think main reasons are (+-5%):

Believed WMD's 30%
Fear of terrorism 15%
Oil 30%
Oil and euro vs. dollar less than 5%
Imperialism 20%
Iraq liberation 0%

So I think true reasons are believed WMD's, fear and oil. Iraq liberation was no reason at all beforehand but now afterwards it is good justifying reason. Imperialism, I mean that USA wants to secure its posession in Middle East.
 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
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I liked the Hans BLix article I posted in another thread:

Hans Blix dismisses many of the theories that flourish about why the USA entered Iraq:

- I do not believe this is a war of civilizations, a war between Islam and Christianity. I do not believe that they are trying to establish an american hegemony in Iraq.
Neither is oil the foremost reason for USA's actions, nor the threat against Israel.
Instead, Hans Blix says the reason which led the USA to war is what was the country has held from the very start.

- I believe they seek guarantees that Iraq does not have nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction or the ability to get them, he says.
After the attacks of September 11th 2001 the US attitude towards Iraq and terrorism hardened.
Hans Blix started his international career in the 1940ies as a councilman in the International section of FPU (the People Party Youth segment). During the People Party government 1978-1979 he was their Foreign Minister. A few months ago the eyes of the world were turned to the 75-year old Blix when he as chief of the UN's weapon inspectors in Iraq were to report their results.
Hans Blix is disappointed that the weapon inspectors were not granted more time, but at the same time he seems to have an understanding for why the USA did not want to extend the deadline and risk additional delays. Experience with Iraqi procrastination from earlier controls are the background for this.

Blix believes Iraq could have avoided confrontation by clearly declaring what weapons they still kept and that the country would start dismantling them. This was not done, instead Iraq tries to convince the UN that there were no chemical weapons in the country.
On the question whether he feels responsible for the war, Hans Blix responds with a resolute no.
Without the threat of military action Iraq would never have allowed inspections in the country. Hans Blix thinks the inspections went fairly well. In January the inspections became more intense.
- We were granted access to all areas without any delays, but it didn't really straighten out any question marks, he says.
The weapons inspectors requested more time for their work, but at the beginning of March the USA decided enough was enough. The Iraqi war began.
Three and a half months is a short time for inspections, Blix states. He does not believe the discussions in the UN during Fall were held with such a short timespan in mind.
Hans Blix works on a mission from the UN Security Council until this summer. Before Blix retires he hopes to be able to return to Iraq and finish the work the weapons inspectors started last fall. The chance of finding any weapons of mass destruction in the country increases markedly now that Saddam Hussein's regime has fallen, according to Blix.
- Iraq is a police state. I think more people are prepared to talk after the war. It is easier to find weapons when the country is liberated.

It is difficult for the USA to point out a solid reason for war. It is rather the absense of a solution from Iraq that became the motivation.
One could ask why the USA came to the UN looking for support for the war in the fall of last year. There were already signs that the USA doubted continued inspections. There were strong wishes for cooperation from USA's side -- through the UN the USA could gain legitimacy for a war on Iraq.
The division within the UN however prevented the plans of support for an interdiction. Hans Blix is convinced that France sooner or later would have agreed to a march into Iraq.
- Europe has been relatively lame in the question of weapons of mass destruction. The five permanent members of the security council agree to restrict the spread of nuclear weapons to themselves, Blix says ironically.
He thinks one could demand that these five nations themselves should aim to be good examples. Primarily the USA has a large arsenal and even continues development of nuclear weapons.



 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Believed WMD's
Fear of terrorism

50/50 mix, the others are just conspiracy theories, we will not colonize, we will not steal their oil, liberation was a great secondary effect and a usefull selling point. Not many would argue the people were doing well under Saddam and who could oppose freedom from oppression.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
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To remove a potentially destabilizing force from a region of the world who's stability, due to it's huge deposits of oil and our dependency upon them, is vital to our national security. Terrorism, WMD, links to 9/11, concern for the Iraqi people, etc. were just reasons du jour, dependent on what side of our face we were talking out of and who we were trying to convince.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
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76
repeated u.n. failure, impotence, and bureacratic dithering forced the u.s. hand to act
in the interests of regional security, which 9/11 redefined more forcefully.

you can't sit back and wait for a toothless bureaucratic beast like the u.n. to grow some
cahones and speak to petty police state megalomaniacs in the only language they understand.

scan the web for articles that explore the particulars for long overdue u.n. reforms, particularly
in the veto powers the permanent members use to lord over proceedings and invasively push
their narrow national interests.

besides, iraq failed to comply with the upteenth u.n. resolution in 1441 drafted in november,
with unanimous international support, and had to suffer the consequences outlined in it.
 

PELarson

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2001
2,289
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To fix his father's screw up. Now it appears he is well on the way to creating his own cluster f**k!
 

HappyGamer2

Banned
Jun 12, 2000
1,441
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NUMBER 1, re-election
2, to make the bush name look good after his dad made look bad
3, oil
4, WMD, if any
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
What do you think were real reasons for war?

Believed WMD's 30%
Fear of terrorism 30%
Oil 5%
Oil and euro vs. dollar 0%
Imperialism 0%
Iraq liberation 0%
Send a strong message to the region 30%
Economics 5%

"Ole Unca Sam only gonna take so much" ;)
 

43st

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
3,197
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0
I think ego was the #1 factor. There's been bad blood between the US and Iraq since the mid 80's when Saddam stopped "playing ball" with the US. After he nixed the pipeline deal it was downward slide. So I guess that makes it Imperialism... So 100% Imperialism for me.
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
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Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
NUMBER 1, re-election
2, to make the bush name look good after his dad made look bad
3, oil
4, WMD, if any

#1 and #2 = Hahahahah......hahahahaha....hahahaha.....excuse me while I catch my breath

Jani & burnedout have the best ideas but I would skew them slightly different, I say:

30% believed WMDS (which I believe will be found in time)
25% Iraq liberation (I like to believe that there are good people in this world willing to help others)
15% fear
10% oil/economy
10% send a message and shake up the region
10% we are sick of his crap and tired of the UN not doing a damn thing
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,784
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1) Oil, they want to get rid of the OPEP and control Oil prices
2) Euro fear against a weak dollar
3)Paying back donations to the Republican Party , from companies making weapons, millitary, Oil.
 

aznparty

Member
Aug 9, 2002
70
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0
Originally posted by: Jani
Please no flame wars. Respect other opinions too even if you don't agree those.

I think main reasons are (+-5%):

Believed WMD's 30%
Fear of terrorism 15%
Oil 30%
Oil and euro vs. dollar less than 5%
Imperialism 20%
Iraq liberation 0%

So I think true reasons are believed WMD's, fear and oil. Iraq liberation was no reason at all beforehand but now afterwards it is good justifying reason. Imperialism, I mean that USA wants to secure its posession in Middle East.

Fear of terrorism: 25%
Oil: 25%
Helping out Israel: 30%
neoconservatives asserting their power status/reminding the world who is boss: 20%

Its as simple as that. Most so called terrorists that Iraq supports are ones fighting the Israelies. No WMD has been found and if they did have it and was going to use it against the US, they would have done so already so sold it to terroists already but they haven't. At least haven't used it against US. And fear of terrorism? The Bushy administration seem to have all but forgotten about bin Laden and 9/11. I don't hear them talk about it no more? Why is it because we caught bin Laden and neutralized al-Qaeda? Nope and nope!
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
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Originally posted by: aznparty

Its as simple as that. Most so called terrorists that Iraq supports are ones fighting the Israelies. No WMD has been found and if they did have it and was going to use it against the US, they would have done so already so sold it to terroists already but they haven't. At least haven't used it against US. And fear of terrorism? The Bushy administration seem to have all but forgotten about bin Laden and 9/11. I don't hear them talk about it no more? Why is it because we caught bin Laden and neutralized al-Qaeda? Nope and nope!

Are you implying that we just gave up on bin Laden and al-Qaeda? Just becaues you don't hear much about bin Ladan and Al-Qaeda doesn't mean we still aren't working on it. We are still fighting in other places than just Iraq you know. We have severly damaged them and continue to search for bin Laden. Do you really know what is going with with bin Laden or do you understand the fact that we have intelligence people and spec ops still working on it? Nope and nope!
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
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Originally posted by: colonel
1) Oil, they want to get rid of the OPEP and control Oil prices
2) Euro fear against a weak dollar
3)Paying back donations to the Republican Party , from companies making weapons, millitary, Oil.

........ I hope your joking

Terrorism - 9/11 woke up the world - 35%
WMD's - A madman shouldn't have one, espically Saddamn, we don't want another 9/11 with NCBs. 35%
Enforcing UN Resolutions - We can't have people who just sitback and be armchair generals - 10%
Oil & Economy - 20%

 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
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Well, considering that just about every country in the middle east are known to have WMD's (Iran, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan etc) and that most of them are known to harbour terrorists it surprises me that the ONE nation which could not be PROVEN to do either was the one nation that was attacked...

I think Irak was just an easy target to set an example...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: colonel
1) Oil, they want to get rid of the OPEP and control Oil prices
2) Euro fear against a weak dollar
3)Paying back donations to the Republican Party , from companies making weapons, millitary, Oil.

........ I hope your joking

Terrorism - 9/11 woke up the world - 35%
WMD's - A madman shouldn't have one, espically Saddamn, we don't want another 9/11 with NCBs. 35%
Enforcing UN Resolutions - We can't have people who just sitback and be armchair generals - 10%
Oil & Economy - 20%

Ok, but what about Pakistan (nukes), Iran (al quaida training grounds), Saudi Arabia (home of al quaida)?

Just about ever nation in the region can be proven to harbour terrorists and most of them have WMD's, so why Irak?
 

aznparty

Member
Aug 9, 2002
70
0
0
Originally posted by: Staley8
Originally posted by: aznparty

Its as simple as that. Most so called terrorists that Iraq supports are ones fighting the Israelies. No WMD has been found and if they did have it and was going to use it against the US, they would have done so already so sold it to terroists already but they haven't. At least haven't used it against US. And fear of terrorism? The Bushy administration seem to have all but forgotten about bin Laden and 9/11. I don't hear them talk about it no more? Why is it because we caught bin Laden and neutralized al-Qaeda? Nope and nope!

Are you implying that we just gave up on bin Laden and al-Qaeda? Just becaues you don't hear much about bin Ladan and Al-Qaeda doesn't mean we still aren't working on it. We are still fighting in other places than just Iraq you know. We have severly damaged them and continue to search for bin Laden. Do you really know what is going with with bin Laden or do you understand the fact that we have intelligence people and spec ops still working on it? Nope and nope!

If they are really working on bin Laden and al-Qaeda why dont they come out and annouce what they have done so far? Why not talk about it? They don't have to give details on their operations but a status update would be nice. They seem to tell us everything and anything about Iraq, like how they discovered this so called bio lab or a so called terrorist camp or a so called missile site yet nothing about bin Laden? I think they have pushed it to the back in favor or other agendas. IN fact, now they can use the "terrorist" card as a reason to do whatever they want in the region. Most of the hijackers were Saudi nationals, maybe the US should invade Saudia Arabia instead of Syria.
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Originally posted by: aznparty
Originally posted by: Staley8
Originally posted by: aznparty

Its as simple as that. Most so called terrorists that Iraq supports are ones fighting the Israelies. No WMD has been found and if they did have it and was going to use it against the US, they would have done so already so sold it to terroists already but they haven't. At least haven't used it against US. And fear of terrorism? The Bushy administration seem to have all but forgotten about bin Laden and 9/11. I don't hear them talk about it no more? Why is it because we caught bin Laden and neutralized al-Qaeda? Nope and nope!

Are you implying that we just gave up on bin Laden and al-Qaeda? Just becaues you don't hear much about bin Ladan and Al-Qaeda doesn't mean we still aren't working on it. We are still fighting in other places than just Iraq you know. We have severly damaged them and continue to search for bin Laden. Do you really know what is going with with bin Laden or do you understand the fact that we have intelligence people and spec ops still working on it? Nope and nope!

If they are really working on bin Laden and al-Qaeda why dont they come out and annouce what they have done so far? Why not talk about it? They don't have to give details on their operations but a status update would be nice. They seem to tell us everything and anything about Iraq, like how they discovered this so called bio lab or a so called terrorist camp or a so called missile site yet nothing about bin Laden? I think they have pushed it to the back in favor or other agendas. IN fact, now they can use the "terrorist" card as a reason to do whatever they want in the region. Most of the hijackers were Saudi nationals, maybe the US should invade Saudia Arabia instead of Syria.

CNN article dated 3/7/03 U.S. intelligence officials say they believe they are getting closer to finding fugitive al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden in northern Pakistan. . I can find some more I"m sure. I do agree with you though that we never hear anything about it, the media just gives us every tiny detail from Iraq but no real info on the 9/11 issue. And I also agree with you that using the terrorist card for a reason to invade Iraq doesn't fly (if you want to know why I think we are at war with Iraq see my earlier post). I just wanted to point out to you and others that just b/c the war with Iraq grabs all the media attention that doesn't mean we've given up on Bin Laden and Co.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Well, considering that just about every country in the middle east are known to have WMD's (Iran, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan etc) and that most of them are known to harbour terrorists it surprises me that the ONE nation which could not be PROVEN to do either was the one nation that was attacked...

I think Irak was just an easy target to set an example...

Iraq is shitter than Syria, Jordan, Pakistan and we have a better WMD's abuse (Habajah anyone?) record than other contries.
 

bolinger

Member
Apr 16, 2003
132
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0
What do you think were real reasons for war?
Bush: Goddammit Connie, I dropped another three points in the polls yesterday. What the hell can I do about this?
Rice: [sarcasm]Well you could always go to war with someone......Iraq?[/sarcasm]
Bush: Connie, you're a goddamn genius.
 

Raiden8

Junior Member
Aug 20, 2002
14
0
0
1. Support Democracy & Democratization = 30%
2. National Security = 60%
3. Oil reserves = 10%

10 percent is generous by me. Oil in Iraq is just coincidental. It would not matter if Iraq didn't have a pint of oil because no.2 is the highest priority