What do you think of bandwidth throttling for home broadband?

[Soybomb]

So I'm kind of the bitter old geek by now and just added digg to my RSS feed list a few weeks ago. I'm almost floored by the discussions I see there when it comes to bandwidth throttling/traffic shaping for home broadband accounts. For a bunch of people that I would expect to be fairly tech savvy, they seem to have very unrealistic expectations. What do you guys expect from your ISP? Would you feel outraged if you couldn't run torrents 24/7 full tilt?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I signed up for X speed, I pay for X speed, you give me X speed or I cancel due tou your breach of contract.

 

[Lonyo]

My ISP throttles, but it's never been an issue for me.
My up to 20mbps (more like 12~16 actual) cable has a limit of 3GB between 4pm and midnight, and once I go over that amount, I get capped down to 5mbps for 4 hours.
The lower tiers have the same (but lower bandwidth limits, and speed only gets halved).

It's not hugely unreasonable, and leaves me with enough bandwidth, and it means that I can game relatively uncongested in the evenings.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I signed up for X speed, I pay for X speed, you give me X speed or I cancel due tou your breach of contract.

True dat!

I've got another idea for broadband providers....DON'T USE DECEPTIVE MARKETING!!!

Don't tell me that I can get speeds up to X but have in extra-fine print that those speeds are only obtainable during 11:00am and 11:00:15am.

 

[skace]

There was a point when I cared, these days with Comcast I don't even know what to expect anymore, I'm just happy if shit works.

Hypothetically, I'd like to expect what I pay for, I don't think that is too much to ask. Otherwise why would you have separate packages for various speeds?

 

[TwiceOver]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I signed up for X speed, I pay for X speed, you give me X speed or I cancel due tou your breach of contract.

Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

Now if we are talking about packet prioritization then DAMN STRAIGHT peoples email/voip should take priority over torrent/p2p traffic.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

And I think most studies show that the average home user never comes close. Meaning that if the 1 power user on a segment can't reach the advertised speeds then it is basically a lie and questionable marketing.

 

[aceO07]

No throttling please. With all the crap ads/flash/js that I'm subjected to on various websites, I need all the bandwidth I can get.

If there is throttling, give me a discount. I don't want to pay what I do now and get less bandwidth.

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

And I think most studies show that the average home user never comes close. Meaning that if the 1 power user on a segment can't reach the advertised speeds then it is basically a lie and questionable marketing.

I think you're severely underestimating how many people are bandwidth hogs. It isn't powerusers, the mechanics at the garage down the street download dvd's over torrents now even.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I signed up for X speed, I pay for X speed, you give me X speed or I cancel due tou your breach of contract.

Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

That's correct. UP TO.

And an ISP can guarantee whatever performance level you want, but you'll pay for it. There's also an abuse section in the acceptable use policy. The kind of leech that would run torrents all the time isn't the kind of customer an ISP wants. So by limiting or throttling them hopefully they'll go somewhere else and the service as a whole to all customers will improve.

This all falls under reasonable network management as defined by the FCC.

 

[TwiceOver]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

And I think most studies show that the average home user never comes close. Meaning that if the 1 power user on a segment can't reach the advertised speeds then it is basically a lie and questionable marketing.

OK... Then who is going to guarantee the other end of the connection? Just cause you have a 10mb connection doesn't mean you are going to get even a fraction of that beyond the ISP's infrastructure.

 

[meltdown75]

I don't think my ISP throttles, but for the amount I download (a couple shows per week, that's about it, maybe a new album here and there) - it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Soybomb]

The kind of leech that would run torrents all the time isn't the kind of customer an ISP wants.

I'm shocked at how many end users find this concept unreasonable and demand legislation or something to fix their woes. Home users need to understand that the advertised speed is a maximum but they are not buying dedicated service. When you buy your home service from an ISP you're agreeing to split the cost of a bigger chunk of bandwidth with a group of people under the assumption that you won't all be using it to capacity all the time. You get more bandwidth than you afford on your own as long as you're willing to share. The ISP you buy from makes a couple bucks for setting up this sharing arrangement and delivering the bandwidth to your home. If you continually take more than your share, why would you expect to not have your service throttled? If you and 3 other friends go out for pizza every week and split the cost and you always eat 3/4 of the pizza they're not going to keep splitting the cost equally with you.

If you want to get dedicated levels of service with a SLA that is available but you'll pay for it but you won't be getting the kind of deal you're getting now. Too many people seem to be expecting a free lunch.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: skace
There was a point when I cared, these days with Comcast I don't even know what to expect anymore, I'm just happy if shit works.

Hypothetically, I'd like to expect what I pay for, I don't think that is too much to ask. Otherwise why would you have separate packages for various speeds?

Ya no kidding. I am not going to shit a brick if I am not getting my 8 mbit down from Comcast 100% of the time, but there really is no excuse these days when it comes to how low it averages out to be (not including the times of the day where most people are at work and don't use it anyways unless they are letting their downloads run while they are away or something). The bottom line is that I expect it to provide me with at least an average of 75% of the maximum they are advertising. Not to mention that deceptive marketing bullshit needs to end. I don't care how many disagree that it isn't deceptive. No one can argue that most of their customers currently believe that they are supposed to get the max of what is offered. If that is not a clear sign of deceptive marketing, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by: spidey07
That's correct. UP TO.

And an ISP can guarantee whatever performance level you want, but you'll pay for it. There's also an abuse section in the acceptable use policy. The kind of leech that would run torrents all the time isn't the kind of customer an ISP wants. So by limiting or throttling them hopefully they'll go somewhere else and the service as a whole to all customers will improve.

This all falls under reasonable network management as defined by the FCC.

While I am not going to argue what you are saying here, I can't help but see how much profit Comcast rakes in per year and then wonder how much they are just hiding behind their policies and the FCC just so they can make a lot more money instead provide the kind of quality service they used to provide back in the day when they still had adequate competition to deal with. Ever since they overwhelmed their competition, their quality has gotten worse and worse and worse.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Well if they cant handle people using a service in an UNLIMITED manner then they shouldnt be saying unlimited. And if they can come close to the speeds advertised (within reason) then they shouldnt be offering it.

It seems that the isp industry wants to be able to market in their favor but not have to come close to backing it up. Maybe I should say I will pay up to $50 a month for your service and then decide that my financial situation only allows for me to pay $20

I'm fine with a 2mb connection as long as thats what they claim, but dont claim 50mb and then deliver 12, its deceptive marketing

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
I signed up for X speed, I pay for X speed, you give me X speed or I cancel due tou your breach of contract.

Any good ISP will only say "Up To xx"

There's simply no way any ISP (for home users) can guarantee 8-10mb speeds 100% of the time. Think about it, that would have to be a pretty fat pipe.

Now if we are talking about packet prioritization then DAMN STRAIGHT peoples email/voip should take priority over torrent/p2p traffic.

That's the problem. They say "up to" but I've never EVER seen it hit that mark. NEVER.

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Well if they cant handle people using a service in an UNLIMITED manner then they shouldnt be saying unlimited. And if they can come close to the speeds advertised (within reason) then they shouldnt be offering it.

It seems that the isp industry wants to be able to market in their favor but not have to come close to backing it up. Maybe I should say I will pay up to $50 a month for your service and then decide that my financial situation only allows for me to pay $20

I'm fine with a 2mb connection as long as thats what they claim, but dont claim 50mb and then deliver 12, its deceptive marketing

Is that unrealistic though? An all you can eat buffet isn't really all you can eat but you recognize the obviously limitations on "all you can eat." Isn't an unlimited usage ISP the same thing?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

My ISP throttles the news server, but nothing else. I've learned to live with it as I can download from other sources at blazing speed.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Well if they cant handle people using a service in an UNLIMITED manner then they shouldnt be saying unlimited. And if they can come close to the speeds advertised (within reason) then they shouldnt be offering it.

It seems that the isp industry wants to be able to market in their favor but not have to come close to backing it up. Maybe I should say I will pay up to $50 a month for your service and then decide that my financial situation only allows for me to pay $20

I'm fine with a 2mb connection as long as thats what they claim, but dont claim 50mb and then deliver 12, its deceptive marketing

Is that unrealistic though? An all you can eat buffet isn't really all you can eat but you recognize the obviously limitations on "all you can eat." Isn't an unlimited usage ISP the same thing?

No, it's not unrealistic. unlimited means no limits. It is not fair to the consumer for them to say one thing and do another. If they say unlimited, it means no limits. If the buffet says "all you can eat" then they better let you eat as much as you can.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: Soybomb

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Well if they cant handle people using a service in an UNLIMITED manner then they shouldnt be saying unlimited. And if they can come close to the speeds advertised (within reason) then they shouldnt be offering it.

It seems that the isp industry wants to be able to market in their favor but not have to come close to backing it up. Maybe I should say I will pay up to $50 a month for your service and then decide that my financial situation only allows for me to pay $20

I'm fine with a 2mb connection as long as thats what they claim, but dont claim 50mb and then deliver 12, its deceptive marketing

Is that unrealistic though? An all you can eat buffet isn't really all you can eat but you recognize the obviously limitations on "all you can eat." Isn't an unlimited usage ISP the same thing?

No, it's not unrealistic. unlimited means no limits. It is not fair to the consumer for them to say one thing and do another. If they say unlimited, it means no limits. If the buffet says "all you can eat" then they better let you eat as much as you can.

many "all you can eat" places dont let you or only let you for a while then they yell at you for eating too much. every now and then a topic about it gets posted

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn

Originally posted by: Soybomb

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Well if they cant handle people using a service in an UNLIMITED manner then they shouldnt be saying unlimited. And if they can come close to the speeds advertised (within reason) then they shouldnt be offering it.

It seems that the isp industry wants to be able to market in their favor but not have to come close to backing it up. Maybe I should say I will pay up to $50 a month for your service and then decide that my financial situation only allows for me to pay $20

I'm fine with a 2mb connection as long as thats what they claim, but dont claim 50mb and then deliver 12, its deceptive marketing

Is that unrealistic though? An all you can eat buffet isn't really all you can eat but you recognize the obviously limitations on "all you can eat." Isn't an unlimited usage ISP the same thing?

No, it's not unrealistic. unlimited means no limits. It is not fair to the consumer for them to say one thing and do another. If they say unlimited, it means no limits. If the buffet says "all you can eat" then they better let you eat as much as you can.

So how many buffets do you think you could go in and stay at all day? Could I spend all day at the buffet eating? Do I have to leave when they want to close? Would they allow me to go up and take 80% of the trays off the steam cart and not leave any for the other customers?

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
OK... Then who is going to guarantee the other end of the connection? Just cause you have a 10mb connection doesn't mean you are going to get even a fraction of that beyond the ISP's infrastructure.

Valid, which is why Newsgroups are always an excellent test. If your ISPs own newsgroup can't get the advertised speeds or anywhere close there is an issue.