What do you think is the proper role of the Federal Government?

[Siddhartha]

At least half of the threads on this forum come down to a disagreement on the role of the Federal goverrnment.

Lets discuss this subject

In your opinion, what is the proper role the US Federal government?

Please resist the urge to devolve the conversation into the typical ATP and N left vs right or any other overly simplistic dichotomies.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

 

[Zebo]

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

 

[dmcowen674]

What do you think is the proper roles of the Federal Government?

At least half of the threads on this forum come down to a disagreement on the role of the Federal goverrnment.

Lets discuss this subject

In your opinion, what is the proper role the US Federal government?

Please resist the urge to devolve the conversation into the typical ATP and N left vs right or any other overly simplistic dichotomies.

Own everything

/thread

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Government's job? To protect me from you. And from them. But not from myself.

 

[Siddhartha]

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Can you be more specific?

 

[Anarchist420]

The Federal Government should be confederal (the member states vote to declare war, treaties, agree to become a union for their mutual defense, etc.) And it should require a 2/3 vote of member states to declare war and sign treaties. There should be a few limitations on the states, like requiring a republican form of government, prohibition of involuntary servitude, and a few others.

It shouldn't have the power to declare war (should be up to the member states), to require taxation, to crack down on civil liberties, or to regulate the market.

Sadly, Confederal Republicanism died in 1789, so my views on the powers of the Federal Government are a bit outdated.

 

[Moonbeam]

Check out the preamble to the Constitution.

 

[Siddhartha]

Check out the preamble to the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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[Jaskalas]

Own everything

/thread

So when Bush was President, he owned you, is that correct? That's how you'd like it?

 

[Jaskalas]

Government's job? To protect me from you. And from them. But not from myself.

If they put your health on the budget, and they must pay FOR you, then you think they are not allowed to balance the budget by making personal decisions FOR you?

He who controls the money makes the rules. If you take a dime from them, they own you and you've violated your own principle.

 

[Siddhartha]

So when Bush was President, he owned you, is that correct? That's how you'd like it?

What do you think is the proper role of the Federal Government?

 

[Zebo]

Can you be more specific?

That's not specific? Wow.

Thomas Jefferson was saying whatever we want.

We are gods. Not economics, not Phorahs or divine rights of kings - us.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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Yep, but people will interpret that as Constitutional grounds for the government doing virtually anything. The facts are that no court has ever used the preamble as grounds for an action. What it does is provide context for the government to use it's authority as defined within the body of the Constitution itself.

My belief is that in an ideal world (yeah I know) government should be a facilitator, a servant of the people who's purpose is to minimally insert itself when there is clear need and as defined by the constraints placed upon it by the people. Otherwise, it should butt out. It should not be the source of morality, a repository of power for it's own sake, a shill, or whatever it really is, which is not as I first defined.

 

[matt0611]

Its spelled out pretty clearly in the constitution.

1. Federal court system
2. Coin money (emphasis on the coin)
3. Keep commerce between the states regular
4. Make treaties with other nations
5. Provide for defense
6. Post office
7. Uniform standard for weights and measures
8. Collect Excise taxes
9. Intellectual property / patent laws
10. Regulate trade with other nations

Basically nothing else.

Check out the preamble to the Constitution.

Check out the rest of it. It will do you some good.

 

[Jaskalas]

What do you think is the proper role of the Federal Government?

The Federal Government should be confederal (the member states vote to declare war, treaties, agree to become a union for their mutual defense, etc.) And it should require a 2/3 vote of member states to declare war and sign treaties. There should be a few limitations on the states, like requiring a republican form of government, prohibition of involuntary servitude, and a few others.

It shouldn't have the power to declare war (should be up to the member states), to require taxation, to crack down on civil liberties, or to regulate the market.

Sadly, Confederal Republicanism died in 1789, so my views on the powers of the Federal Government are a bit outdated.

He said it most ideally, where it's a nothing more than a voluntary Union of States. States that are required to uphold the Bill of Rights, but have no other requirements placed on them.

I want 50 experiements in government, where the people are free to move to a more like-minded state and thus get the representation that best suits them. Then we can have an ecomonic competition among states where the people pick winners and looser, and the looser can freely decide to emulate the policy of the winning states.

We'll have such variety that we won't get stuck in century long arguments of policy. If there's an idea then there's a state where someone has tried it and learned the results. Everyone else knows the results and this competition, this plurality, results in a better life for everyone because an entire nation of 310 million people won't be held hostage to a stagnant and ineffective consolidated seat of power in Washington DC.

 

[Siddhartha]

Yep, but people will interpret that as Constitutional grounds for the government doing virtually anything. The facts are that no court has ever used the preamble as grounds for an action. What it does is provide context for the government to use it's authority as defined within the body of the Constitution itself.

My belief is that in an ideal world (yeah I know) government should be a facilitator, a servant of the people who's purpose is to minimally insert itself when there is clear need and as defined by the constraints placed upon it by the people. Otherwise, it should butt out. It should not be the source of morality, a repository of power for it's own sake, a shill, or whatever it really is, which is not as I first defined.

Moonbeam referred to the US Constitution Preamble so I cut and paste it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Moonbeam referred to the US Constitiution Preamble so I cut and paste it.

I understand. I made my comment because so much of the basis for government action is based on the concept that the Preamble of itself gives the authority to act as the powers that be wish, as long as it's deemed in the "general welfare". That would be an incorrect assumption on their part.

 

[Zebo]

Yep, but people will interpret that as Constitutional grounds for the government doing virtually anything. The facts are that no court has ever used the preamble as grounds for an action. What it does is provide context for the government to use it's authority as defined within the body of the Constitution itself.

My belief is that in an ideal world (yeah I know) government should be a facilitator, a servant of the people who's purpose is to minimally insert itself when there is clear need and as defined by the constraints placed upon it by the people. Otherwise, it should butt out. It should not be the source of morality, a repository of power for it's own sake, a shill, or whatever it really is, which is not as I first defined.

Th Amendment process says we can do not just virtually anything but anything. The boundreis, rights, and structure of the Constitution can all be changed. What you're talking about is times acting outside the law.

To quote my main man Tj again.

...their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness

 

[ericlp]

Proper role? Go in clean house! I mean FIRE everyone down to the janitors and cooks.

Rehire everyone that is not related to anyone of them. No distant uncles non of that shit.

Nothing short of a revolution. Then, ask that same question again.

 

[CycloWizard]

Government should protect its citizens' rights to life, liberty, and property. Providing for any of these is clearly beyond the scope of any responsible government, and beyond the ability of any government.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Proper role? Go in clean house! I mean FIRE everyone down to the janitors and cooks.

Rehire everyone that is not related to anyone of them. No distant uncles non of that shit.

Nothing short of a revolution. Then, ask that same question again.

The government should fire it's janitors and cooks?

 

[wuliheron]

Their role is to promote the wealthy, corporations, and special interest groups.

That's what they're paid to do right?

 

[Siddhartha]

Their role is to promote the wealthy, corporations, and special interest groups.

That's what they're paid to do right?

Is this what you consider to be the proper role of the Federal government?

 

[wuliheron]

Is this what you consider to be the proper role of the Federal government?

Of course! If you want them to do something else you'd better be prepared to pay them for the work. I know I don't work for free.