what do you need to build a web server?

[stndn]

i was talking with my friends about creating our own web server (something like geocities or tripod, but a much much smaller scale)

so what will we need? i know for one we'll need a domain name (or just IP address if we're too poor to afford that 🙂 ).

what kind of computer(s) do we need? the processor, memory, storage, etc?

what kind of connection? i heard usually this is worked between us and the phone carrier (or local ISP). is that true?

anything else we need to take into considerations?

thanks a bunch 🙂

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[Qacer]

Hello,

Just for a simple webserver you don't really need much. Heck, I can run a 486 using Linux and make it a webserver. As for the connection, I've been told that 128KB upstream is decent enough for general purposes. As a matter of fact, Yahoo!'s dedicated server services starts at 128KB upstream. For this speed, you will be much better off getting a DSL connection. Usually, you will get a static IP address with this kind of subscription unlike most cable services.

Server software:
http://www.nonags.com
http://www.tucows.com

DSL:
http://www.dslreports.com

Cheap parts:
http://www.pricewatch.com

Good luck..

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< i was talking with my friends about creating our own web server (something like geocities or tripod, but a much much smaller scale)
so what will we need? i know for one we'll need a domain name (or just IP address if we're too poor to afford that 🙂 ).
what kind of computer(s) do we need? the processor, memory, storage, etc?
what kind of connection? i heard usually this is worked between us and the phone carrier (or local ISP). is that true?
anything else we need to take into considerations?
thanks a bunch 🙂
-476- >>



Domain names are cheap. I have seen them as low as `$10.
Hardware: I recommend a pIII or athlon 500 or better. They are cheap and easy to find. They are relatively up to date, can run better software faster and if you are using a free operating system they will let you compile updates and bug fixes faster. As much memory as you can afford/fit. If for some reason you make it big (mentioned on slashdot?) the more memory you have the better. This is a good rule of thumb for ANY modern system... A couple UATA/66 or better drives will be more than enough for a simple site. SCSI is always better but you would have to wiegh the price to performance to need comparison. You won't need a video card, or atleast much of one. Skimp here. No sound card, skimp here too. Of course you will need a connection to the internet (Which I will get to in a moment) so networking equipment is the best. Try not to skimp much here. For network cards go with intel. They have some of the best cards on the market. Monitor may not be necessary but if it is and you cannot use one you have already pick up a cheap 15&quot;. Keyboard is also not necessary. Get a decent powersupply and get a rackmount case if possible.

The internet connection can be as simple as a 56k connection to an OC 256. I recomment staying on the lighter side 😉 Check for DSL connections in your area. Go with a package that has decent upstream speeds (128 was mentioned earlier as a minimum) and gives you static ip addresses (the more the better). If you need a better connection go with a T1 but those are VERY expensive, especially for toys like this project 😉

You can also get an isp to host the server (colocation) but this is expensive and you will not have 24/7 easy access to your server if anything goes wrong.

As far as software, take a look at linux or the BSDs. I recommend FreeBSD or OpenBSD (my personal favorites). WinNT will serve you fine, but hardening the system is a lot tougher. Apache is one of the best webservers out there and it is free. IIS is better for NT but there are several security uhmmm considerations involved 😉 The best thing to do is use what you understand. NT can be secured well enough, but it takes a lot of work (changing file permissions, editting registry, etc).

One of the biggest topics for sysadmins of all types is (or atleast SHOULD BE) security. Take the time to do this right. There are MANY applications that will help you tighten the security of all systems. This is not something to slack on.
Good luck.

 

[Ben]

n0cmonkey, I'm with you except for the no keyboard part. I don't see how that's good. I mean they aren't very expensive anyway, and I don't see how you'd get by without one.

stndn, most of the time your outgoing bandwidth is going to be your limitation. 128K is barely adequate, but would be a good place to start so you could get familiar with the in's and out's without spending a lot of money. With 128K you really wouldn't be able to provide any large pictures or files. Some cable modem users are lucky enough to get a FAT pipe going out so you may want to look into cable first.

Almost any old POS computer would be able to supply 128K of data so your hardware requirements are pretty open.

You don't have to have a domain name but it's nice. You'll definately want one once you start giving out your address to Joe Public.

If you want to get up and running quickly, try the web server built in to Windows2000. The first thing you'll want to do though is head to the Microsoft Windows Update page and install all the critical updates so you don't leave any security risks open for hackers.


As you start to scale up you'll want to upgrade your connection to the outside world. That's when things start to get expensive. Just as a ballpark figure if you use DSL, 128K out will run about $40/month, 384K out will run about $70/month, 768K out is going to be well over $100/month, probably around $150. It depends on who you go with. If you ever get to the point where you need a T1 (1.5Mbps), you can expect to pay ~$500/month. Maybe more, maybe less, depending upon the options in your area and how far you are from your CO.

Again, even with a T1, a basic computer would be able to handle that easily. They key really becomes reliability. You need a computer that can handle light loads 24/7 without a single crash for months on end.

If you ever get to the point where you need faster than a T1, then you'll be upgrading your server as well. But by then you'll probably be involved in it enough to know what you need.

There's a link to my server in my profile as well as a hardware description in my &quot;rigs&quot; profile. I only have 384K going out so a Dual Xeon is major overkill but I use my server for many different things on my LAN as well.

At work we have a T1 that's fed by an HP Netserver. It's just a dual P-Pro 200 with a 3-drive RAID5 array. The RAID is for data redundacy, not for speed. That thing easily handles the T1.

 

[n0cmonkey]

<< n0cmonkey, I'm with you except for the no keyboard part. I don't see how that's good. I mean they aren't very expensive anyway, and I don't see how you'd get by without one. >>



SSH with operating systems that do not require a gui. No, they are not expensive, but they are also not needed. I have a system (my p133) that only has a keyboard and monitor hooked up because I own a kvm switch. But for a windows machine a keyboard, mouse, and monitor would all be necessary. But why spend $300 or whatever on an NT/2k license when OpenBSD is free?



<< stndn, most of the time your outgoing bandwidth is going to be your limitation. 128K is barely adequate, but would be a good place to start so you could get familiar with the in's and out's without spending a lot of money. With 128K you really wouldn't be able to provide any large pictures or files. Some cable modem users are lucky enough to get a FAT pipe going out so you may want to look into cable first.

Almost any old POS computer would be able to supply 128K of data so your hardware requirements are pretty open. >>



128k will be plenty for a hobby site's humble beginnings. But, like memory you can never have enough bandwidth.



<< You don't have to have a domain name but it's nice. You'll definately want one once you start giving out your address to Joe Public.

If you want to get up and running quickly, try the web server built in to Windows2000. The first thing you'll want to do though is head to the Microsoft Windows Update page and install all the critical updates so you don't leave any security risks open for hackers. >>



These updates/patches/hotfixes/service packs should be installed BEFORE the machine ever touches the internet. Many people have seen intrusions in the time it takes to get the MS's page and download the fix (on a fat pipe).




<< As you start to scale up you'll want to upgrade your connection to the outside world. That's when things start to get expensive. Just as a ballpark figure if you use DSL, 128K out will run about $40/month, 384K out will run about $70/month, 768K out is going to be well over $100/month, probably around $150. It depends on who you go with. If you ever get to the point where you need a T1 (1.5Mbps), you can expect to pay ~$500/month. Maybe more, maybe less, depending upon the options in your area and how far you are from your CO. >>



Where can you find a T1 for ~$500? I want one! 😉



<< Again, even with a T1, a basic computer would be able to handle that easily. They key really becomes reliability. You need a computer that can handle light loads 24/7 without a single crash for months on end. >>



I forgot to mention it, but this part of your book reminded me. Use ECC ram if you can. And high quality if budget allows.



<< If you ever get to the point where you need faster than a T1, then you'll be upgrading your server as well. But by then you'll probably be involved in it enough to know what you need.

There's a link to my server in my profile as well as a hardware description in my &quot;rigs&quot; profile. I only have 384K going out so a Dual Xeon is major overkill but I use my server for many different things on my LAN as well. >>



Tisk tisk! Security problems abound 😉



<< At work we have a T1 that's fed by an HP Netserver. It's just a dual P-Pro 200 with a 3-drive RAID5 array. The RAID is for data redundacy, not for speed. That thing easily handles the T1. >>

 

[stndn]

thanks everybody for the info....

before i read your posts, we were thinking of something along 1GHz machines with 512MB memory and huge SCSI HD 😱 .... but apparently we're not into that big project yet, so we'll start small as you all mentioned 🙂

we were thinking it's easier to setup windows machine as our server... but considering the security breach and stuffs (doesn't feel like looking for something challenging *yet*), maybe we'll try some linux box... (plus, it should push down on the processor requirements, right?)

also, i'm not sure about the keyboard requirement.... if we don't have keyboard, it's going to be hard to specify the settings and everything with a mouse or GUI keyboards... well, it's not that expensive anyway, so it shouldn't be any prob for us (plus i have 2 extra keyboards collecting the dust over here)

some info i'll need to discuss with my friend.... we'll be sure to come back and ask more questions and keep bugging you all, so please bear with us 😉

and btw, if there's a T1 for $500, i'd like to know as well 🙂


btw, does dual processor boost up the server performance or what? i mean, the bottleneck is going to be the connection, right? and not much of the processor? like say, i can perform better with one 500MHz compared to dual 450MHz, no?

again, thanks all for the help... 🙂

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[Ben]

I don't see why you felt the need to rip my post apart n0cmonkey.

He said he wanted something small so I'm trying to help him put something small together to get his feet wet. Are you trying to help him or impress everyone?

Funny how you called my post a &quot;book&quot; when both of your posts were longer than mine.

Security problems abound? WTF is that supposed to mean? If you think you can hack into my server go ahead and try. It seems like you think that anything Windows based is full of security holes and your OpenBSD is bulletproof.
I'd love to hack your post apart but I won't.

Anyway...

If you already own Windows2000 then it would be &quot;free&quot; too. I don't know if you own it already or not.

I don't know if your familiar with Linux or not. If not, then with OpenBSD there's the learning curve of a new OS added to learning how to provide web content. If your comfortable with that then go for it. I know next to nothing about OpenBSD so... maybe n0cmonkey could you give you a place to find information about how to install and implement OpenBSD on a web server so you can get an idea of what it takes?

As for the hotfixes being installed before the server touches the Internet, that can easily be remedied by grabbing a Service Pack 2 CD from Microsoft, or by downloading the Service Pack ahead of time from a secured machine.

The $500 T1 was the LOWEST quote I got and it was from PacBell. Most companies were more, some were a lot more (like Verizon). I just gave you a ball park figure. The best thing to do is get quotes from multiple companies and then get them in a price war against each other. 🙂 For starters try your local phone company, and a couple places like UUNET or Verio.

About your processor question stndn, either would be more than enough to start so go with whichever is more economical. Later if you actually start to put a load on your server then the dual 450's would be better than a single 500.

 

[Ben]

n0cmonkey, you wouldn't happen to live near Colorado Springs by chance?

 

[stndn]

Ben and n0cmonkey, thanks for your help both of you (also Qacer, thanks for the good luck... we'll desperately need them 🙂 ). i didn't mean to introduce any sparks between you two, so please cool down a bit 🙂

i haven't talked to my friend yet (he's in the other half of the world... somewhere in south east asia). the plan is to put the server there. the reason being that he has more time in his hand than i do (but if that change, we may move the server here -- assuming the plan started somewhere). and since it's a developing country, i don't think T1 is available yet (even if it does, it's going to be way beyond $1000 🙁 ). but it's good to know there's an isp who can sell that cheap... maybe we'll get that when we're stable and expanding 😀

we do have Win2000 professional edition (not the server edition, though). i think it's not that hard to get an upgrade to server edition, so it should be no prob. i guess w2k is a good start since we don't know how to set the *nix file systems and configs and all...

from what i heard, ppl usually choose *nix OS as their servers because it's easier to maintain, lower CPU requirement, more stable, and less vulnerable to security? but then again, we don't know much about those, so i guess we'll be starting from the easier one

well, guess this will be halted for a while until i talk to him... yup, for sure we want to get our feet wet first.... but not with water and muds and all 😉

again, thanks for all the help. really really appreciate it 🙂

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