I have my own strongly held opinions, backed up by accurately interpreted statistics and logic, but I'm interested to hear what y'all think.
What do you know/think about the "wage gap" between men/women/minorities?
- Thread starter Orsorum
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Has it ever been proven that the wage gap is a direct result of being a female and/or minority, or is it merely a correlation?
dullard
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- May 21, 2001
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I don't pay much attention to the minority gap, so I have very little opinion there. I assume it is similar to my women/men gap discussion below.
Yes in some fields there is a wage gap. But in many fields there isn't. A minimum wage job at McDonald's is a minimum wage job whether you are male or female. A government job is the same wage whether you are male or female. There are a lot of fields where the salary is fixed and thus there are no differences.
In other areas, the difference can easilly be explained away. Number of hours worked is the biggest factor. In many jobs, men on average make say 20% more per year than women in the same job. Sounds unfair doesn't it? Not when you look further. In most of those situations, men work on average about 20% more per year than women in the same job. It balances out - per hour worked the wage is about the same.
In cases not covered by those above, women sometimes do have a wage gap. Then you have to look at other details. In our society, women tend to have more of a support job (the husband tends to be the biggest earner). Suppose the husband is an engineer making $70k a year and the wife is a teacher making $35k a year. It makes little sense for a wife to find a better paying job in another city that makes $40k a year if that means the husband may have to settle for a job making $60k a year when he moves to another city. In most cases, it is best for the higher earner to pick the city and the second earner (most often the female) to take what is available. Thus women just settle for a lower paying job so that their family is overall better off.
Other times women just don't ask for raises or don't demand a good wage when hired, they aren't aggressive enough in this area.
Other times, women just don't have the experience. Sorry but there are few women who have 35 years experience running a major corporation. Women didn't go to college in mass back then and they didn't get the management jobs back then. So you are comparing a man with 35 years experience managing a corporation to a woman with 20 years experience managing a small business. Yes the work is the same but the qualifications aren't. This is improving, especially now that women outnumber men in colleges. But it takes time.
What is left is very few fields where there is a REAL difference in wages. I think this difference is discrimination and needs to be addressed. But for the most part, these are rare cases in isolated industries.
Let me go get data, I think I have some that is relavant.
Yes in some fields there is a wage gap. But in many fields there isn't. A minimum wage job at McDonald's is a minimum wage job whether you are male or female. A government job is the same wage whether you are male or female. There are a lot of fields where the salary is fixed and thus there are no differences.
In other areas, the difference can easilly be explained away. Number of hours worked is the biggest factor. In many jobs, men on average make say 20% more per year than women in the same job. Sounds unfair doesn't it? Not when you look further. In most of those situations, men work on average about 20% more per year than women in the same job. It balances out - per hour worked the wage is about the same.
In cases not covered by those above, women sometimes do have a wage gap. Then you have to look at other details. In our society, women tend to have more of a support job (the husband tends to be the biggest earner). Suppose the husband is an engineer making $70k a year and the wife is a teacher making $35k a year. It makes little sense for a wife to find a better paying job in another city that makes $40k a year if that means the husband may have to settle for a job making $60k a year when he moves to another city. In most cases, it is best for the higher earner to pick the city and the second earner (most often the female) to take what is available. Thus women just settle for a lower paying job so that their family is overall better off.
Other times women just don't ask for raises or don't demand a good wage when hired, they aren't aggressive enough in this area.
Other times, women just don't have the experience. Sorry but there are few women who have 35 years experience running a major corporation. Women didn't go to college in mass back then and they didn't get the management jobs back then. So you are comparing a man with 35 years experience managing a corporation to a woman with 20 years experience managing a small business. Yes the work is the same but the qualifications aren't. This is improving, especially now that women outnumber men in colleges. But it takes time.
What is left is very few fields where there is a REAL difference in wages. I think this difference is discrimination and needs to be addressed. But for the most part, these are rare cases in isolated industries.
Let me go get data, I think I have some that is relavant.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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Nope, don't have it anymore. But it basically was a ~2 year old study in my field, chemical engineering. It showed that the average female chemical engineer made roughly 15% less per year than the average male chemical engineer. But as soon as you corrected for the differences in length of work week, education level, experience, and family size then the females were acutally making ~2% more.
I think it's perfectly valid because white educated women/males do a better job than uneducated and underpriviledged minorities. It's just a simple fact.
Even as a minority, I don't believe in equal opportunities because at the work level, there is an obvious inequality.
Even as a minority, I don't believe in equal opportunities because at the work level, there is an obvious inequality.
In addition to dullard's post, women are also more likely to take time off (for children and such). A gap in a work history simply makes you less marketable than an equally qualified candidate without one.
I have a BSN and work with terminally ill children. The man down the street with the shovel in his hand is employed by a construction company to dig a hole in the ground. He earns $2.25 more per hour than I, to dig dirt. Is there something wrong with this picture? Yes?.and No.
Due to my specific line of nursing practice, I?m in demand in the medical profession. I often receive offers of higher wages and benefits from other places of employment. I love what I do for work and refuse to leave my kids (patients). It?s more important to me that I fight for these kids and see that they get everything they need to provide them comfort, rather than fight for a higher wage at my place of employment. Money isn?t everything.
Due to my specific line of nursing practice, I?m in demand in the medical profession. I often receive offers of higher wages and benefits from other places of employment. I love what I do for work and refuse to leave my kids (patients). It?s more important to me that I fight for these kids and see that they get everything they need to provide them comfort, rather than fight for a higher wage at my place of employment. Money isn?t everything.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
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so.. more white males have sold there soul to Lucifer for money and power.
well, can't disagree with that one.
as well they should, if that's what the market for them is at.
Ozoned
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- Mar 22, 2004
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I live in an area where there is a high demand for labor and very few qualified bodies to fill the need. The nice thing about this situation is that there is no income gap among equally qualified indiuviduals. The higher education levels of (some) individuals, however, does demand a premium, as it should.
Funny, the women that have worked for me came in two classes. The ones who were dynamic and worked hard and got the promotions and the ones that complained about the gender gap!
I'd bet that the doctor you work either for or under is doing pretty well. Health care suffers from most of the money going to the top.
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