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What do you call a corporation who lobbies government based purely on what they gain?

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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
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Since they fund the election cycle, buy all the ads, etc, get preferential treatment for those dollars I think they are a bigger problem than welfare moms.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Since they fund the election cycle, buy all the ads, etc, get preferential treatment for those dollars I think they are a bigger problem than welfare moms.
As I said in the other thread, you are correct at one level, however in NY Medicaid is THE major budget buster. That and like programs are fabulously expensive. To tackle them brings out pics of that welfare mom holding her head in one hand and a hungry child in the other. How many dollars is that worth? A great many. Reform is off the table.

Now if it came to it how much easier would it to be take that image off the political third rail than curtail corporate influence? Good luck with either.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
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As I said in the other thread, you are correct at one level, however in NY Medicaid is THE major budget buster. That and like programs are fabulously expensive. To tackle them brings out pics of that welfare mom holding her head in one hand and a hungry child in the other. How many dollars is that worth? A great many. Reform is off the table.

Now if it came to it how much easier would it to be take that image off the political third rail than curtail corporate influence? Good luck with either.

Frankly I think you and I agree on a lot. I think we are both in tune with how the system works/doesn't work.

I am just tired of people placing blame for crap on poor people, lazy yadda yadda yadda, no work, free shit etc.

While I think its a problem I think it pales in comparison to the real problem. which is political and systemic failure and corruption.

I agree nothing meaningful is going to change at all because even if you get a true reformer the monied interest will ensure there is no traction on anything.

that is why my top two issues are

Outlaw all lobby
Publicly finance all national elections and elections for national office.

Until you do those two things you will not have any meaningful change.
I am bewildered that we cant all agree to focus and tackle those issues as they are not partisan at all.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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thats one for sure.

I'm willing to Outlaw all lobby in the interest of reforming our political and government systems are you?
No, because lobbying is just another word for free political speech which include legal and illegal bribes. You can't limit lobbying without limiting free speech.
I would be in favor of targeting illegal bribes though.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I think we need substantial reform as well. I'd change several things to curtail corporate interests, but break the lock on government the two parties hold and provide real means for more choices which have a chance of winning.

As far as the poor goes, I do not begrudge those who cannot work. I do not like multigeneral dependencies, and I definitely do not like to see them used as political pawns in party power plays. That's the thing, not that the truly needy should be thrown to the wolves, but there ought to be ways to help besides checks, and I've touched on some economic reforms before. "Look at poor Margie, provide for her and hers and vote Democrat", or "Look at that useless waste which is Margie, vote Republican to get her gone" or equivalent words does not sit well with me.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
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No, because lobbying is just another word for free political speech which include legal and illegal bribes. You can't limit lobbying without limiting free speech.
I would be in favor of targeting illegal bribes though.
If you reverse corporate person-hood its not a problem. I disagree that lobby is simply exercising free speech, its buying influence and policy through dollars.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,763
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Lobbying is not the problem. People with money will always try to exert their influence upon the government, no matter what laws are passed to try to stop it. Rich people are always going to control the government.

The problem is that those who are lobbying are getting large returns on their investment. If the government did not have as much power, it would not make sense to spend billions of dollars lobbying for a small gain.

A large centralized government makes this even worse. Instead of having to lobby 50 different state governments, a corporation or wealthy person can just lobby the all-powerful federal government, essentially making lobbying 50 times cheaper and making their return on the investment 50 times greater.

The solution is to decentralize the government and reduce its power. Unfortunately the people who complain the most about corporations controlling the government just want to make the government bigger, which would make things even worse.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Lobbying is not the problem. People with money will always try to exert their influence upon the government, no matter what laws are passed to try to stop it. Rich people are always going to control the government.

The problem is that those who are lobbying are getting large returns on their investment. If the government did not have as much power, it would not make sense to spend billions of dollars lobbying for a small gain.

A large centralized government makes this even worse. Instead of having to lobby 50 different state governments, a corporation or wealthy person can just lobby the all-powerful federal government, essentially making lobbying 50 times cheaper and making their return on the investment 50 times greater.

The solution is to decentralize the government and reduce its power. Unfortunately the people who complain the most about corporations controlling the government just want to make the government bigger, which would make things even worse.
I agree government is too big, but I think Lobby is a huge problem.

I think you do both reduce government power and outlaw direct monetary influence of it.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,214
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If you reverse corporate person-hood its not a problem. I disagree that lobby is simply exercising free speech, its buying influence and policy through dollars.
If a corporation is a person, how and where do you put in jail when it breaks the law?
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,763
32
91
I agree government is too big, but I think Lobby is a huge problem.

I think you do both reduce government power and outlaw direct monetary influence of it.
If you outlaw direct monetary benefits I think you'd just see the influence shift to a "do this for us now and we'll give you a cushy job after you retire from the government" type arrangement. I don't see any way to effectively regulate such behavior.
 

echo4747

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2005
1,928
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Frankly I think you and I agree on a lot. I think we are both in tune with how the system works/doesn't work.

I am just tired of people placing blame for crap on poor people, lazy yadda yadda yadda, no work, free shit etc.

While I think its a problem I think it pales in comparison to the real problem. which is political and systemic failure and corruption.

I agree nothing meaningful is going to change at all because even if you get a true reformer the monied interest will ensure there is no traction on anything.

that is why my top two issues are

Outlaw all lobby
Publicly finance all national elections and elections for national office.

Until you do those two things you will not have any meaningful change.
I am bewildered that we cant all agree to focus and tackle those issues as they are not partisan at all.
Agree ... very sad we wont have any meaningful change
 
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