What constitutes a ?Victory? in Iraq to you?

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: new22003
There has been much talk about what to do in Iraq and people always throw around the word ?Victory? in reference to it. The problem is everyone?s definition of the word, as it applies to Iraq, seems different. I would like to know what everyone in here, Republican, Democrat, and otherwise thinks.

So I guess the question is ?What is your realistic definition if victory in Iraq?. Please try and keep debate civil.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

Victory is when you don't mind visiting there on a civilian vacation.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: new22003
There has been much talk about what to do in Iraq and people always throw around the word ?Victory? in reference to it. The problem is everyone?s definition of the word, as it applies to Iraq, seems different. I would like to know what everyone in here, Republican, Democrat, and otherwise thinks.

So I guess the question is ?What is your realistic definition if victory in Iraq?. Please try and keep debate civil.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

Victory is when you don't mind visiting there on a civilian vacation.

By that standard we have achieved victory in Vietnam.

 

[Agent11]

Just goes to show, leaving when you cannot do anymore good(although I do not think we have done much to this date) can have a happy outcome.. eventually.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: new22003
There has been much talk about what to do in Iraq and people always throw around the word ?Victory? in reference to it. The problem is everyone?s definition of the word, as it applies to Iraq, seems different. I would like to know what everyone in here, Republican, Democrat, and otherwise thinks.

So I guess the question is ?What is your realistic definition if victory in Iraq?. Please try and keep debate civil.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

Victory is when you don't mind visiting there on a civilian vacation.

By that standard we have achieved victory in Vietnam.

LOL. Good point.

But Vietnam coulda turned out even worse without our intervention...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

Oh really???

Gotta love how the radical Republicans have changed their tune since having their collective a$$e$ handed to them.

You have one point right though.

It's bi-partisan for those that truly care about the Country, all others simply are still America haters and just feel miserable now that their heroes have been ousted from power.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Bush ruined the U.S's reputation

He also failed to act like the leader of the world police, because face it we are the world police.

Should have attacked North Korean nuclear sites the day he came into power. He called them the "Axis of Evil" so he should have done something about it. Yet rather than go after North Korea or Iran, he went after the country with no defense or any means to attack anyone.

Brilliant.

& Victory would be to stablilze Iraq enough for us to get out of there. That is not going to happen. Mission Failed.

The only question that faces America is do we give up the Iraq oil.

 

[Sentrosi2121]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

Awwwwwww another Republican comes out of the woodwork.

It's a Republican problem but Americans and Democrats will do everything they can to try and fix as best as possible.

If Republicans kept control you wouldn't even be spewing such nonsense.

Looks like you are new here welcome to P&N, your fellow Republicans can use your help.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Craig234
That's one of the nicest posts I've seen in a while, Retrospooty, thank you

No problem... I am sure someone willstill flame you before the thread dies though.

He mentioned the UN, automatic flame points there

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Victory will be Iraq the 51st state. We broke it, we own it.

Ok... if we broke it and own it.. then we should partition it just like Mountbatten did with India... put some here and some over there and the rest up there.. Iraq is three places based on their notion of it all.. so let em be three places and in three different locations... split up the oil revenue three ways.. and there it is.. the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states..

Ya know Mountbatten knew that there was no way Hindu and Muslim could exist in the same area... and I think it is worse when you get into the Muslim sub sets.. not only do they see the others as evil but also see them attempting to pervert the good that Islam is and must do something to obviate that..

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: new22003
There has been much talk about what to do in Iraq and people always throw around the word ?Victory? in reference to it. The problem is everyone?s definition of the word, as it applies to Iraq, seems different. I would like to know what everyone in here, Republican, Democrat, and otherwise thinks.

So I guess the question is ?What is your realistic definition if victory in Iraq?. Please try and keep debate civil.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.

Victory is when you don't mind visiting there on a civilian vacation.

By that standard we have achieved victory in Vietnam.

LOL. Good point.

But Vietnam coulda turned out even worse without our intervention...

How on earth could that be true.. After the French left... and we sorta eased in... Kennedy ok'ed the end of the south's president.. Johnson escalated the involvement and lots died... then Nixon went beyond the beyonds... IF just a million died there... my god.. I can't believe just a million died.. but anyhow.. they would have become what they are today in a much less bloodier manner..
The Viet Cong were South Vietnam's Freedom fighters and IMO they had good cause.. the corrupt government of the South needed to cease to exist.. but in its place the North would have been much more at ease with what could have been in place and re-unified..

 

[Sentrosi2121]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

Awwwwwww another Republican comes out of the woodwork.

It's a Republican problem but Americans and Democrats will do everything they can to try and fix as best as possible.

If Republicans kept control you wouldn't even be spewing such nonsense.

Looks like you are new here welcome to P&N, your fellow Republicans can use your help.

Every single problem in this country IS an American problem. WE make the laws of this country therefore WE are the caretakers of this great land of ours.

It's time to stop wasting time and effort into blaming someone. What are you going to do when the buerocracy(sp?) of this country finally finds out who is to blame? Tell them that they have to pay money? Apologize? Name one thing that will be PRODUCTIVE once we figure it out....

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Victory will be Iraq the 51st state. We broke it, we own it.

Ok... if we broke it and own it.. then we should partition it just like Mountbatten did with India... put some here and some over there and the rest up there.. Iraq is three places based on their notion of it all.. so let em be three places and in three different locations... split up the oil revenue three ways.. and there it is.. the 51st, 52nd and 53rd states..

Ya know Mountbatten knew that there was no way Hindu and Muslim could exist in the same area... and I think it is worse when you get into the Muslim sub sets.. not only do they see the others as evil but also see them attempting to pervert the good that Islam is and must do something to obviate that..

It will go against my very soul, and the very nature of our society since it's very inception, if the United States became a colonial power. Doing so after an aggressive war that we began would be even worse. Finally, neither the US citizens nor world opinon would tolerate a permanent occupation of Iraq.

The fires of deep seated sectarian violence were eventually tamped out in the former Yugoslavia by UN and US action. That should be studied as a model.

 

[Trell]

Originally posted by: senseamp
An Iraq where Saddam Hussein is not threatening us with WMD's.

So we were victorious before we went to war?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Trell

Originally posted by: senseamp
An Iraq where Saddam Hussein is not threatening us with WMD's.

So we were victorious before we went to war?

Seems we were IF we invaded Iraq based on the premise articulated by the Administration to the UN and the Congress.. we US and the Blair folks...
The fellow Blix said he was makin progress and would be done in a few months.. but that was not good or fast enough, apparently.. the exigent circumstane that the US said existed mandated we invade when we did... Since we found NO WMD or their Delivery Systems... nor any indication Iraq intended to attack us with their non existent WMD... we had Victory before we invaded but I suppose needed to invade to insure that... and we have.. so.... We won a Victory...

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

wrong, Finding a SOLUTION is an american problem. ASSIGNING BLAME or accountability, it is CLEARLY the work of George Bush Jr and the party that supported him. any other answer is just hypocrticial hogwash.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

Awwwwwww another Republican comes out of the woodwork.

It's a Republican problem but Americans and Democrats will do everything they can to try and fix as best as possible.

If Republicans kept control you wouldn't even be spewing such nonsense.

Looks like you are new here welcome to P&N, your fellow Republicans can use your help.

Every single problem in this country IS an American problem. WE make the laws of this country therefore WE are the caretakers of this great land of ours.

It's time to stop wasting time and effort into blaming someone. What are you going to do when the buerocracy(sp?) of this country finally finds out who is to blame? Tell them that they have to pay money? Apologize? Name one thing that will be PRODUCTIVE once we figure it out....

we LEARN FROM IT, your approach of NO ACCOUNTABILITY is just plain stupid. those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

guess what a policy that is designed to create wars in order to make cronies rich who make armaments and such are BAD POLICIES and we have to acknowledge that before we can say is is an AMERICAN PROBLEM.

anything less is counterproductive.

 

[1EZduzit]

I for one find it rather ironic that the party that touts "personal responsibility" now wants to just forgive and forget about their mistakes under the guise of it being counter-productive.

Counter-productive to who?? LOL, the only ones they care about, themselves.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sentrosi2121

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To me victory would be a stable Iraq---even if its governed by someone even worse than Saddam.

The world danger is now an Iraq going civil war---and the resulting instability spreading far past the borders of Iraq.

Its the latter danger that keeps us in Iraq.----and the problem we as Americans now face---getting out will not be as easy as getting in.

Playing the blame game now is counterproductive---its a bi-partisan problem now.

what a crock.

it is NOT counter productive to hold the republicans responsible for this mess. and yes, it is the mess of G Bush and his cronies.

yes, there are serious issues to be dealt with in regards to the war but to say that you don't have to hold the Republicans responsible because it will be "counterproductive" is a crock of sh1t.

Honestly, it's an American problem. Blaming either side of our politics IS counterproductive.

Awwwwwww another Republican comes out of the woodwork.

It's a Republican problem but Americans and Democrats will do everything they can to try and fix as best as possible.

If Republicans kept control you wouldn't even be spewing such nonsense.

Looks like you are new here welcome to P&N, your fellow Republicans can use your help.

Every single problem in this country IS an American problem. WE make the laws of this country therefore WE are the caretakers of this great land of ours.

It's time to stop wasting time and effort into blaming someone. What are you going to do when the buerocracy(sp?) of this country finally finds out who is to blame? Tell them that they have to pay money? Apologize? Name one thing that will be PRODUCTIVE once we figure it out....

Our representatives do the work, not "we." If our representatives do a poor job, we hold them accountable, learn from their mistakes, and move on. That is what would be productive. If we ignore the ones who have led us astray, we are doomed to continue to repeat the mistakes.

We will also be doing justice a bad service by letting them get away with it in the first place. Do we let criminals get away with crimes and move on? Our top officials representing our country should be held to the absolute highest standard. How could we achieve this without accountability?