What causes pregnancy?

[Atreus21]

Rather than utterly hijack Gigantopithecus' thread about third party candidates, I will create this topic instead.

My argument on abortion.

A woman does not have the right to kill anyone except in self-defense. Killing your unborn child, then, is only permissable when you've been raped or in any event did not consent to the act which brought about pregnancy.

The response from the pro-choice side: Sex doesn't cause pregnancy.

Then what does? The implantation of a fertilized egg? In other news, guns don't cause deaths. Bullets aimed at hearts do.

I'd like to know who honestly believes this notion, and furthermore their justification for it.

My mind is insufficient to the task of adequately describing the incongruity of this defense, so I have to resort to metaphor.


The trolls have taken over this thread and derailed it.

I have no choice but to lock it. Oh wait, I do have a choice, I could let it go on, and on.

But we don't want that do we?


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Anarchist420]

Sex can cause pregnancy, but it doesn't automatically cause pregnancy.

 

[fskimospy]

I am unaware of anyone who thinks sex does not cause pregnancy.

I'm aware of quite a large number of people who think that an embryo isn't afforded the same status as a person.

/thread

 

[JSt0rm]

choice. You may not like it but choice.

 

[Brainonska511]

A woman does not have the right to kill anyone except in self-defense. Killing your unborn child, then, is only permissable when you've been raped or in any event did not consent to the act which brought about pregnancy.

If the embryo is so sacred and innocent, why this exception? After all, it didn't do any of those horrible things to the mother, why does it deserve to be or is allowed to be killed?

 

[Atreus21]

I am unaware of anyone who thinks sex does not cause pregnancy.

I'm aware of quite a large number of people who think that an embryo isn't afforded the same status as a person.

/thread

Don't worry, he'll be here soon.

I'm not principally interested in debating abortion, but moreso with reassuring myself that I'm not the last sane person on earth.

To that extent, I'm very grateful for your reply.

 

[fskimospy]

What I find both funny and sad is that even the pro life people don't believe their own bullshit. They don't view an embryo as the equivalent of a full person either.

If there were a Nazi concentration camp where thousands of people were being murdered each year in your hometown, they wouldn't stand for it. By their argument, the exact same thing is happening all over America every day and their response is to take signs outside and say 'please stop'.

 

[SandEagle]

i blame it on the baby batter

 

[Atreus21]

If the embryo is so sacred and innocent, why this exception? After all, it didn't do any of those horrible things to the mother, why does it deserve to be or is allowed to be killed?

I think a mother can claim the principle of self-defense in saying that she has the right to abort a child conceived from rape.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

What's worse than a dead baby in a trash can?

 

[Atreus21]

What I find both funny and sad is that even the pro life people don't believe their own bullshit. They don't view an embryo as the equivalent of a full person either.

If there were a Nazi concentration camp where thousands of people were being murdered each year in your hometown, they wouldn't stand for it. By their argument, the exact same thing is happening all over America every day and their response is to take signs outside and say 'please stop'.

Well, that's a paradox really. My brother and I have that discussion. If we really believe that abortion is no different than a holocaust, then simply bleating about it is terribly lazy and calls into question the depth of our belief in the principle.

However, bombing abortion clinics is not an acceptable way to enforce social change. That can never be on the table.

I think what we ought to do is go anti-tobacco on the issue. That is, completely flood billboards, tv, radio, the internet with our message.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, that's a paradox really. My brother and I have that discussion. If we really believe that abortion is no different than a holocaust, then simply bleating about it is terribly lazy and calls into question the depth of our belief in the principle.

However, bombing abortion clinics is not an acceptable way to enforce social change. That can never be on the table.

I think what we ought to do is go anti-tobacco on the issue. That is, completely flood billboards, tv, radio, the internet with our message.

You don't think violence was justified to prevent the holocaust?

 

[JSt0rm]

I think a mother can claim the principle of self-defense in saying that she has the right to abort a child conceived from rape.

Why do you get to say what is right or wrong? Why is your moral compass better then another adults? If you dont want abortions then dont have your mail order bride get any. Simple.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think a mother can claim the principle of self-defense in saying that she has the right to abort a child conceived from rape.

That doesn't sound reasonable at all. The embryo is an innocent bystander in the whole incident. The embryo isn't attacking the mother. Hell, the zygote stage isn't even formed till way after the rape.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

What's worse than a dead baby in a trash can?

A fetus?

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm so sick of these conservatives who want government out of their lives unless its a issue they think is important. What absolute bullshit.

 

[BladeVenom]

What I find both funny and sad is that even the pro life people don't believe their own bullshit.

I find it both funny and sad is that even the pro-abortion feminazis don't believe their own bullshit. Once women start to choose to abort girls because they want boys, the feminazis want to restrict choice.

 

[JSt0rm]

A fetus?

10 dead babies!

Whats worst then 100 dead babies in a trash can?

 

[Double Trouble]

Why do you get to say what is right or wrong? Why is your moral compass better then another adults? If you dont want abortions then dont have your mail order bride get any. Simple.

I agree with this logic. I'm completely anti-abortion myself, but that's my choice. I don't see any logic in imposing that choice on someone else, everyone gets to make their own choice. A fetus is not a baby or a child, it has the potential of becoming one. Until that potential is fulfilled, trying to equate the two makes no sense. Treating a fetus as the equivalent of a child also essentially turns the mother into nothing more than a glorified incubator that doesn't get to make any choices regarding her own life and body, since the rights of the "child" in the incubator supersede her rights. That also makes no sense.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm so sick of these conservatives who want government out of their lives unless its a issue they think is important. What absolute bullshit.

Why is it considered hypocritical to not ascribe 100% to an extreme viewpoint? Does the world have to be crazy-fringe libertopian no-government anarchy or pinko-commie all-government totalitarianism? That's an extremely simplistic view.

 

[Infohawk]

A woman does not have the right to kill anyone except in self-defense. Killing your unborn child, then, is only permissable when you've been raped or in any event did not consent to the act which brought about pregnancy.

This position is not coherent. First you say that self-defense is the only excuse for murder then you lay out a second excuse that is not at all self-defense.

 

[HAL9000]

Rather than utterly hijack Gigantopithecus' thread about third party candidates, I will create this topic instead.

My argument on abortion.

A woman does not have the right to kill anyone except in self-defense. Killing your unborn child, then, is only permissable when you've been raped or in any event did not consent to the act which brought about pregnancy.

High five! I'm with you on this one. I completely agree about everything said here.

 

[HeXen]

Rather than utterly hijack Gigantopithecus' thread about third party candidates, I will create this topic instead.

My argument on abortion.

A woman does not have the right to kill anyone except in self-defense. Killing your unborn child, then, is only permissable when you've been raped or in any event did not consent to the act which brought about pregnancy.

The response from the pro-choice side: Sex doesn't cause pregnancy.

Then what does? The implantation of a fertilized egg? In other news, guns don't cause deaths. Bullets aimed at hearts do.

I'd like to know who honestly believes this notion, and furthermore their justification for it.

My mind is insufficient to the task of adequately describing the incongruity of this defense, so I have to resort to metaphor.

that's super cool. But you can think quietly without disturbing others.

 

[HAL9000]

choice. You may not like it but choice.

Exactly, you choose to have sex or not, you choose whether you risk getting pregnant, you made the choice. I'm pro that choice.

 

[JD50]

I'm so sick of these conservatives who want government out of their lives unless its a issue they think is important. What absolute bullshit.

That sounds pretty logical actually. You're no different. Do you want government in every single aspect of your life?