What can pass through that water can't?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
12,036
1,134
126
Well it's easy to filter adulteration out of water. That's similar to sink trap capturing food debris.

I meant the other way around. Is there anything 'thinner' than water that can pass through such mesh that water can't?

Water is a molecule made of 2 hydrogen and one oxygen. So any other molecules smaller than that should get though as well as single atoms. Though there are the weak forces that hold the molecules together, not sure if the water would leak out one molecule at a time or in clumps held together by the weak forces.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
/facepalm

Next time you want to keep the fizz... after sealing the bottle, turn it upside down so the carbonation won't escape. :rolleyes:
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Biological membranes can show differential permeabilities, not necessarily based on size. At the simplest level, they'll exclude water and salts, but allow some larger molecules (such as an alcohol) to pass through.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
I meant more 'physical' or 'tangible' things than light (let's not get anal here).

Let's say I create a precise material of mesh that's just fine enough to hold water. Can that precise mesh allow other things to filter, but water?

you mean Goretex?
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
Anything smaller than a water molecule, which I assume would be most of the gasses.
I think water tension has something to do with this too. A single water molecule might fit but because of water tension, it is difficult to separate 2 water molecules.

Wait... is water tension the electromagnetic force?
Edit: It is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohesion_(chemistry)
 
Last edited:

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Yes those material exist and have for millions of years. One exist in your kidneys, removing water and waste from blood but not removing other things, a very selective filter :)
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Anything smaller than a water molecule, which I assume would be most of the gasses.
I think water tension has something to do with this too. A single water molecule might fit but because of water tension, it is difficult to separate 2 water molecules.

Wait... is water tension the electromagnetic force?
Edit: It is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohesion_(chemistry)
I was thinking that water tension had to play a role in this as well. You can get water to bead up on a fairly porous membrane because the surface tension keeps the water in droplets that are too big to pass through (even though the individual molecules would easily pass). Air doesn't have a strong cohesion effect, so I imagine it would be pretty easy to isolate a level of porousness where water would not pass because of surface tension and still have air pass easily. But I'm not a scientist, so that's probably all false.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
As for pop, most likely the gas is not escaping the bottle.
What is happening is the gas escapes into the thin atmosphere that fills the top of the bottle, and then, when you open it, bye bye gas.

You'll also notice how much faster even a fairly new bottle will go flat, based on how much liquid remains. If you take most of the bottle out, reseal it, check in a few days... it'll be flat most likely. If you only take a few swigs, seal it and check back in a few days, it won't be nearly as flat, if much flatter at all.

Try this: once finished with your serving, before sealing the bottle completely, squeeze the sides until you have a deformed bottle that has very little "empty space" in the neck.
It won't go flat nearly as fast, in fact, if it's not opened but a few times, the carbonation will be fairly well preserved.

If it's a bad seal, gas could be escaping. But most of the time, that gas is simply waiting beneath the cap, longing to escape the bottle before you can enjoy the beverage. :p

This, pretty much. There's an equilibrium between carbonic acid in the water, dissolved CO2 in the water and free CO2 in the air in the bottle. When you open the bottle, the air mixes with the open air and lowers the internal pressure (the hiss), reducing the partial pressure of CO2 and driving equilibrium towards more gas. Furthermore, as the liquid volume decreases, there is more air volume for the CO2 gas to expand into.

Also, are there materials (natural or artificial) that can hold water, but allow other things to permeate?

On this separate topic, Gore-Tex is the classic example. It is porous poly(tetrafluoroethylene) (PTFE, basically Teflon). The surface energy of PTFE is really low, making it so that water won't wet it (that's why water beads up on Teflon). The result is it is energetically so difficult for water to interact with the PTFE that droplets can't pass through the pores. Air, on the other hand, has no such trouble.