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What can I do in this situation?

weirdichi

weirdichi

Diamond Member
My parents took the Accord into the dealer (yes, I know, bad idea, but that's another topic).
They changed the ignition starter (which I switched 6 months prior) and claimed that fixed the car. They charged my parents $310 for parts and labor (parts = $70, labor = $240).

The car still has the same symptoms, which they can reproduce. Now I just want the car out of there because they do not know what the hell they are doing since it's been in their garage for over 2 days and today my parents finally got it back, still displaying the same symptom.

If my parents paid for them to fix the car, and they did not fix the car, then shouldn't they get money back minus the diagnostics? It was their fault for changing out an ignition switch that wasn't even broken in the first place.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I'm involved in their car because I just want to save them money.

**EDIT** This is from a thread I started at some Honda forum.

1999 Honda Accord LX Coupe
4 Cylinder
120k Miles
Manual Transmission
Driven in the Twin Cities, Minnesota

This is my parents car. The car runs fine when the temperature is cold (winter time), but as the weather gets warmer, it dies randomly, either on the small roads going 20 mph or on the freeway at 50 mph. There are no lights to indicate that the engine has a problem or that the temperature is too high. It just shuts off. There is still electricity, as all the lights are still on just like when you insert the key into the ignition. I'd have to pull over and let it rest for a a few minutes and then it will start again. I haven't driven it more than 5 miles to work. It seems like it would go a few miles then shut off and I'd have to restart it again after letting it rest.

I've changed the spark plugs, the distributor cap, rotor inside the cap, igniter, and the ignition switch and it still dies on the road. I've checked the main relay under the driver side dashboard and it looks clean and still in good condition. Could it be the fuel pump? I was thinking that if the fuel pump is bad, it would die in hot or cold weather.

It's been going on since late December '09 and I still can't figure what is wrong with it. I've taken it to 4 different mechanics and still nothing. My parents finally took it to the dealer and they replaced the ignition switch--which I knew was not going to fix it since my Honda certified friend replaced it already a year ago with Honda parts from the exact same dealership. On the way home (5 miles), it dies twice. The car still runs fine when it doesn't die, but it's just frustrating to not know what it could be.

Anybody have similar problems or know what exactly is wrong here? Thanks in advance.
 
You can file a complaint with the BBB or your state's attorney general. Car repairs are tough to fight. You should always get a second opinion from a different mechanic prior to paying for repairs. Dealers are no more corrupt than many of the national car repair chains.

Are there any smaller family owned repair centers in your area?
 
Try going down there and talking with the general manager of the dealership. Calmly explain the situation and see what he will do about it.
 
I've talked with the manager of the mechanics department before and he assured me of a refund if they can't fix it. Of course it's just words. I'll have to go back later this week. I just want to know what I can do if it comes to the worst case scenario.
 
Originally posted by: weirdichi
I've talked with the manager of the mechanics department before and he assured me of a refund if they can't fix it. Of course it's just words. I'll have to go back later this week. I just want to know what I can do if it comes to the worst case scenario.
Click to expand...

Give us some specifics. What was the car doing? What did your parents tell the dealer their issue was? What is the car doing now?

 
Experienced the exact same symptoms with an older model Nissan Sentra wagon years ago. I found out it was the ignition circuitry built into (as in epoxied) into the base of the OEM distributor. I bought a new one (for $400) but negotiated with the dealer that if it died in the following three (3) months I could return for full refund.

needles to say it was the problem. The distributor on that car had a latent defect that Nissan refused to deal with. For some reason I continue to buy Nissan ...
 
Originally posted by: weirdichi
This is my parents car. The car runs fine when the temperature is cold (winter time), but as the weather gets warmer, it dies randomly, either on the small roads going 20 mph or on the freeway at 50 mph. There are no lights to indicate that the engine has a problem or that the temperature is too high. It just shuts off. There is still electricity, as all the lights are still on just like when you insert the key into the ignition. I'd have to pull over and let it rest for a a few minutes and then it will start again. I haven't driven it more than 5 miles to work. It seems like it would go a few miles then shut off and I'd have to restart it again after letting it rest.

I've changed the spark plugs, the distributor cap, rotor inside the cap, igniter, and the ignition switch and it still dies on the road. I've checked the main relay under the driver side dashboard and it looks clean and still in good condition. Could it be the fuel pump? I was thinking that if the fuel pump is bad, it would die in hot or cold weather.

It's been going on since late December '09 and I still can't figure what is wrong with it. I've taken it to 4 different mechanics and still nothing. My parents finally took it to the dealer and they replaced the ignition switch--which I knew was not going to fix it since my Honda certified friend replaced it already a year ago with Honda parts from the exact same dealership. On the way home (5 miles), it dies twice. The car still runs fine when it doesn't die, but it's just frustrating to not know what it could be.

Anybody have similar problems or know what exactly is wrong here? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I had a similar issue but it was with a different make and model so it may or may not be the same thing. Mine turned out to be a bad connection in the fuse box. For some reason when the car got warm the connection would go bad and the car would just die. 30 minutes later the car would start up and drive. It took forever to figure that one out.
 
What about the pickup under the distributer. I had one one time that would just shut down for no reason, and it would just have to sit for a while. I spent 300.00 replacing things till I found it. It was a silly 7 dollar part that you would not think would be bad.
 
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Honda will have a national consumer complaint line that you should be able to file a complaint thru.
Click to expand...

I had a similar issue with a Dodge dealer but they broke my car while doing the brakes. I tried to talk to the service guy first who was an ass, then to the mgr of the dealer, who stood with the service guy. So then I called the BBB and Dodge corporate office explaining what happened with details and receipts on hand if they needed them. About a week later I got a call from the service mgr with a change of tune to repair and refund. Be persistent, stress the safety issue of what could happen if it were to turn off on the road, and work your way up giving each level of people a chance to resolve it. Writing them letters each step with a date of like 3-5 days to respond in writing is a good idea too so you have a record of the bad service you are getting. Good luck.
 
Originally posted by: zanejohnson
its the main relay, i had a 98 EX coupe and it did the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

i vote this also,
my 93 teg had the exact same symptoms,
i changed out everything as well, distributor, plugs, rotor etc..
my relay looked fine as well, but i changed it anyways and the problem was fixed.

 
The answer to the OP's original question:
Topic Title: What can I do in this situation?
Click to expand...

is nothing...in fact, the repair shop doesn't even have to talk to you about this.
Your parents however have a couple of options.

Check your state's website for something like a Bureau of Automotive Repairs or similar government agency.
You should be able to file a complaint on-line.

Honda should have an advocate of some kind that you can contact as well. (go over the dealership's head so to speak.)

Maybe a regional or national office where you can file complaints and ask for help with the repair issues.

Usually, the dealership is the place to have repairs done IMO. They have the proper tools, training, TSB's and updates, and the right parts to fix problems. Unfortunately, you occasionally get someone who only knows how to diagnose by changing parts.
"Oh, it does this, let's change the starter...oh, that didn't fix it...let's change the relay bearings...oh, that still didn't work...let's transplant the owner's wallet and credit cards to my pocket....Ahhhh...that's better...still doesn't work? Who cares...All your money are belong to us."
 
I had a very similar problem with a '83 Toyota Tercel when it was about 5 years old. I tried adjusting all kinds of things. It would start and run fine, but after about 30 min of driving the engine would quit and just refuse to re-start. But after sitting for about 20 minutes it would start and run again as if nothing ever was wrong! When that pattern became clear I realized it probably was heat-related and talked to the Toyota dealer. They recognized it immediately and said it was a faulty electronic ignition module mounted in the distributor, and provided a free part under standard warranty. I told them I did not need to pay them for installation, 'cause I could do it myself in 30 minutes. Solved the problem completely.
 
Unless your parents did not authorize the work on the starter you're SOL. You can't expect to get new parts and the technician's labor for free. If the work was authorized (either in writing or just in conversation), your parents have to pay. Period. Authorization can be as simple as the shop saying "we think the problem will be fixed by replacing part X" and your parents saying, "OK, go ahead".

You also have a misconception. Your parents did not pay the dealer to fix the problem. They paid the dealer to replace the ignition switch. That work was performed and should be paid for.

As far as the diagnosis having been wrong, it's possible to work with the dealer and try to get a discount on whatever work is yet to be done, but it's irrational to expect the dealer to eat the entire cost of a repair that your parents authorized. Also, testing for this sort of electrical issue can often take far longer than just replacing the most likely part. The ignition switch is a very common cause of exactly the issue that your parents are experiencing (though the heat component suggests a relay is also a good bet) and IMO the dealership did nothing wrong by replacing a relatively inexpensive part (ignition switch) that had a very high probability of correcting the issue.

You can try pursuing things with the BBB, etc, but I honestly don't believe that you will get very far.

As for the car itself, replace the main relay. I know you think it "looked good", but there's no way to just look at the outside of a relay and tell if it's good.

ZV
 
Thanks for all the information. I think it was authorized, but in their defense, when a mechanic tells you X has to be the problem, you think they know what they are talking about and you give them permission to do that, thinking it will be fixed. However, if that's not it, then they need to find the problem and fix it. If my parents cannot get a refund, shouldn't they at least get the car main relay fixed (if that's the problem) from the dealer?

Remember, they diagnosed it wrong and put in the wrong part. There should be something that they need to do to fix this. Why should we pay for them to put in something that did not fix the problem?
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Unless your parents did not authorize the work on the starter you're SOL. You can't expect to get new parts and the technician's labor for free. If the work was authorized (either in writing or just in conversation), your parents have to pay. Period. Authorization can be as simple as the shop saying "we think the problem will be fixed by replacing part X" and your parents saying, "OK, go ahead".

You also have a misconception. Your parents did not pay the dealer to fix the problem. They paid the dealer to replace the ignition switch. That work was performed and should be paid for.

As far as the diagnosis having been wrong, it's possible to work with the dealer and try to get a discount on whatever work is yet to be done, but it's irrational to expect the dealer to eat the entire cost of a repair that your parents authorized. Also, testing for this sort of electrical issue can often take far longer than just replacing the most likely part. The ignition switch is a very common cause of exactly the issue that your parents are experiencing (though the heat component suggests a relay is also a good bet) and IMO the dealership did nothing wrong by replacing a relatively inexpensive part (ignition switch) that had a very high probability of correcting the issue.

You can try pursuing things with the BBB, etc, but I honestly don't believe that you will get very far.

As for the car itself, replace the main relay. I know you think it "looked good", but there's no way to just look at the outside of a relay and tell if it's good.

ZV
Click to expand...

I have trouble accepting your answer. His parents authorized the repair under the assumption that it would fix their car. They (the dealer) should have tested the switch.
 
Originally posted by: weirdichi
I've talked with the manager of the mechanics department before and he assured me of a refund if they can't fix it. Of course it's just words. I'll have to go back later this week. I just want to know what I can do if it comes to the worst case scenario.
Click to expand...

Verbal agreements arent worth the paper they arent writen on.

My lawyer told me that a long time ago.

 
Originally posted by: zanejohnson
its the main relay, i had a 98 EX coupe and it did the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

I had a 92 accord that had this exact same problem and it also was the main relay.
 
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