What are your plans now that we all know America is on a steep and inevitable decline?

[pmv]

Which is lot harder than it sounds since the rich usually writes the tax laws. I will do my part and vote Republican in the GA Senate runoff races to keep the Congress divided so they can't pass higher tax laws.


China will easily surpass us in economic power. They have 4 times our population so it will be easy. But politically and socially, I don't see how China can surpass the US. Democracy > Communism. Money can't change that.

Well, yeah. Not just "Democracy" vs "Communism" (the US isn't much of a democracy and China isn't particularly Communist, but let that slide), but China has _massive_ structural and social challenges, whole stages of development it has to get through before it's going to surpass the US in global influence. I honestly don't see _anywhere_ that's doing well. That's the most worrying thing. The US's decline is part of a global crisis, it seems to me.

 

[nakedfrog]

Which is lot harder than it sounds since the rich usually writes the tax laws. I will do my part and vote Republican in the GA Senate runoff races to keep the Congress divided so they can't pass higher tax laws.


China will easily surpass us in economic power. They have 4 times our population so it will be easy. But politically and socially, I don't see how China can surpass the US. Democracy > Communism. Money can't change that.

How much would it really hurt you to vote D? Didn't you already retire early because of your financial success?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

LOL! Your own FUGM attitude is what will allow China to surpass the US.

Right... thats the reason why.

If we just elected democrats as a majority we would be magically prosperous all over.

The koolaid is strong with you....

 

[MrSquished]

Which is lot harder than it sounds since the rich usually writes the tax laws. I will do my part and vote Republican in the GA Senate runoff races to keep the Congress divided so they can't pass higher tax laws.


China will easily surpass us in economic power. They have 4 times our population so it will be easy. But politically and socially, I don't see how China can surpass the US. Democracy > Communism. Money can't change that.

Yes voting for republican senators that are openly calling for Republican state officials to resign because they wouldn't usurp democracy to help try to install Trump as a dictator, that's the right move. Genius.

Not to mention that without a Democratic senate any real economic stimulus/infrastructure investment will be much less effective. But let's just overlook the whole the republican candidates don't even support democracy anymore because taxes might go up on income over 400K a year, and on capital gains for those whose income is over 1 million per year. That's the decline I was speaking of, political decline which will ultimately lead to more economic decline, spurred by total greed.

 

[IronWing]

Right... thats the reason why.

If we just elected democrats as a majority we would be magically prosperous all over.

The koolaid is strong with you....

Gosh, you're dumb.

 

[amrnuke]

Right... thats the reason why.

If we just elected democrats as a majority we would be magically prosperous all over.

The koolaid is strong with you....

As a center-lefty who voted Democrat, I can say one thing: Democrats aren't the solution. Neither are Republicans. But what's going on politically are symptoms of a failing governance model. Checks and balances don't matter when the ones doing the checking and balancing are in on it too. The number of loopholes and carve-outs for lobbying and pork-barreling and pet projects and personal enrichment are insane. Until that ends, we will be stuck in this cycle. I see so many people complaining that police never get held accountable by other officers; well, look at our politicians too!

 

[Muse]

I am curious if anyone is set to take America's place as the world leaders. I know the popular opinion is China, but I just don't see it. They have in inverted, declining population that is going to give them more than they can handle in 20 years. It seems like India is too far behind development wise to take the role. Are we about to have an era without a dominant empire?

Hopefully the age of empires is past us. Yeah, rose colored glasses. Right now, America is not the envy of the world.

 

[ponyo]

LOL! Your own FUGM attitude is what will allow China to surpass the US.

No, 4 times our population and faster economic growth rate and higher savings are what's going to allow China to surpass the US economically. There's really nothing we or anyone can do to stop it. Maybe nuclear bomb that wipes out most of China could stop it but that's about it.

And no one likes paying higher taxes. I feel like 37% to the Fed plus another 5.75% to my state is more than fair.

How much would it really hurt you to vote D? Didn't you already retire early because of your financial success?

I'm going to vote with my wallet. I'm sort of ok with ordinary tax rate going back up to 39% but 40% long term capital gains tax rate for anything over $1 million will be killer and has the potential to cause huge market crash. That will hurt everyone. 20% to 40% is just crazy. I would be sort of ok with 25-30% for the LTCG tax. Maybe.

Yes voting for republican senators that are openly calling for Republican state officials to resign because they wouldn't usurp democracy to help try to install Trump as a dictator, that's the right move. Genius.

Not to mention that without a Democratic senate any real economic stimulus/infrastructure investment will be much less effective. But let's just overlook the whole the republican candidates don't even support democracy anymore because taxes might go up on income over 400K a year, and on capital gains for those whose income is over 1 million per year. That's the decline I was speaking of, political decline which will ultimately lead to more economic decline, spurred by total greed.

Trump is finished. Why are you so obsessed with Trump? Hopefully the states and the law will take care of Trump, but I don't have high hopes. Rich have their own laws.

BTW, I voted for Biden because I can't stand Trump and thought Biden would be better for America and the world. But I don't blindly vote one party or other. I don't give a crap about Democrats or Republicans. They all suck. Gridlock is best.

It's easy to say you don't care about higher taxes when it doesn't hit your pocketbook. Tax the evil rich you say. But what if you're labeled rich when you're not? What if you're the one who has to pay 7 figures in taxes? I bet you wouldn't be calling for higher taxes.

40% long term capital gains tax would cause massive economic decline. I can almost guarantee short term stock market crash if 40% long term capital gains tax passes.

 

[IronWing]

There is absolutely no excuse for the capital gains tax rate to be below the rate people pay for earned income, none at all. It is simply a handout to the richest segment of society at the expense of everyone else. If the welfare for millionaires tax rate is artificially propping up the market then the market needs to crash.

 

[ponyo]

There is absolutely no excuse for the capital gains tax rate to be below the rate people pay for earned income, none at all. It is simply a handout to the richest segment of society at the expense of everyone else. If the welfare for millionaires tax rate is artificially propping up the market then the market needs to crash.

Short term gains are taxed at the ordinary income tax rate. Long term capital gains are basically savings and investments. If you want to greatly reduce the incentives to invest for the long term and only care about short term, go ahead and try to raise it. Millionaires and billionaires can survive a crash. Can you?

 

[IronWing]

Short term capital gains are taxed at the ordinary income tax rate. Long term capital gains are basically savings and investments. If you want to greatly reduce the incentives to invest for the long term and only care about short term, go ahead and try to raise it. Millionaires and billionaires can survive a crash. Can you?

"Long term" being defined as one year. The effect of the obscenely low capital gains tax rate has been the hyper-concentration of wealth at the top. I'll take my chances.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

There is absolutely no excuse for the capital gains tax rate to be below the rate people pay for earned income, none at all. It is simply a handout to the richest segment of society at the expense of everyone else. If the welfare for millionaires tax rate is artificially propping up the market then the market needs to crash.

It's literally 0% tax rate for the overwhelming majority population of the US (bottom 70%) for LTCG.

The stupidity of Americans to not utilize this isn't the fault of the tax system.

You sincerely can't get any better than that - but for some reason you want others to pay more - which they already do - while the majority pays 0%. Ironically stupid. You breathe it all over.

 

[MrSquished]

No, 4 times our population and faster economic growth rate and higher savings are what's going to allow China to surpass the US economically. There's really nothing we or anyone can do to stop it. Maybe nuclear bomb that wipes out most of China could stop it but that's about it.

And no one likes paying higher taxes. I feel like 37% to the Fed plus another 5.75% to my state is more than fair.


I'm going to vote with my wallet. I'm sort of ok with ordinary tax rate going back up to 39% but 40% long term capital gains tax rate for anything over $1 million will be killer and has the potential to cause huge market crash. That will hurt everyone. 20% to 40% is just crazy. I would be sort of ok with 25-30% for the LTCG tax. Maybe.


Trump is finished. Why are you so obsessed with Trump? Hopefully the states and the law will take care of Trump, but I don't have high hopes. Rich have their own laws.

BTW, I voted for Biden because I can't stand Trump and thought Biden would be better for America and the world. But I don't blindly vote one party or other. I don't give a crap about Democrats or Republicans. They all suck. Gridlock is best.

It's easy to say you don't care about higher taxes when it doesn't hit your pocketbook. Tax the evil rich you say. But what if you're labeled rich when you're not? What if you're the one who has to pay 7 figures in taxes? I bet you wouldn't be calling for higher taxes.

40% long term capital gains tax would cause massive economic decline. I can almost guarantee short term stock market crash if 40% long term capital gains tax passes.

The 39% capital gains tax would only be on individuals making a million a year in income.

The market would not crash.

Anyways, the market is not the greatest indicator of how a country is doing. 45% of Americans have no stocks. 10% of Americans own the vast majority of them, 84% in fact. Food bank lines are miles long while the market sets records. But let's take that one metric and run the country with it. It's terrible.

And I'm not talking about Trump, I'm talking about you are going to vote for a senator that wants to overrule democracy. For what you see as a potential hit to your wallet. Just gross.

 

[IronWing]

It's literally 0% tax rate for the overwhelming majority population of the US (bottom 70%) for LTCG.

The stupidity of Americans to not utilize this isn't the fault of the tax system.

You sincerely can't get any better than that - but for some reason you want others to pay more - which they already do - while the majority pays 0%. Ironically stupid. You breathe it all over.

This is simply incorrect. For Americans who have 401k palns, they get taxed at the going marginal income tax rate. Even though their investments are the very definition of long term, well screw them. As for taxing the rich, yes. We should tax the rich because they have most of the money.

 

[MrSquished]

Biden 'blue wave' would boost economy, says Goldman chief economist

The economic benefits of a Democratic stimulus package would outweigh higher corporate taxes, says the investment bank.

fortune.com

That's goldman sachs saying a Biden presidency with a blue Congress would be best for the economy. Moody's did a study and came up with the same conclusion. As Biden's win becomes more inevitable, the market continues to climb.

All this fearmongering about a Biden tax plan is just that. It's pure greed.

 

[amrnuke]

Short term gains are taxed at the ordinary income tax rate. Long term capital gains are basically savings and investments. If you want to greatly reduce the incentives to invest for the long term and only care about short term, go ahead and try to raise it. Millionaires and billionaires can survive a crash. Can you?

If we change the law, we just change taxation on investments, IRAs, and 401ks. Short-term transactions within IRAs are already exempt from short-term gains taxes, and we should extend that to 401ks as well.

- All capital gains not in IRAs or 401ks are just added to your income and taxed normally. Doesn't matter if they're short-term or long-term. Just add them, and be done with it.
- Illegalize the Roth backdoor.
- Eliminate the 25% income inclusion for solo K. Reduce employer contribution limits to 2x poverty line.
- Set withdrawal tax cap to 15% for IRA and 401k.

Most Americans can't afford to fully-fund these tax-advantaged accounts anyway. Those that can will still be protected even more than now by lowering the top withdrawal tax rate.

In the case of the IRA accounts, at $500/month x 30 years x 10% annual growth (avg for S&P 500) = $1 million, minus 15% tax on withdrawals. You can withdraw $7,974 a month, minus 15% tax = $6,777 a month after taxes. Indefinitely. Now, tell me, how many of these Americans you have in your mind who would be hurt by such a long-term capital gains tax actually contributes more than $6,000 a year to retirement?

The Roth IRA offers a means for people to, after 30 years of contributions, at average 10% gain per year, pre-tax, to get $100,000 a year in retirement funds in perpetuity, on average. That's more than enough for most Americans (yes, accounting for inflation, which leaves you at a 2020-equivalent of about $58,800 a year --- $4,100 a month after tax... which is still above the national average income).

If you have money beyond this in retirement, congratulations! You're one of the richest Americans! The average American has less than $200,000 in their retirement account.

 

[bbhaag]

One of my big passions is politics, and I really did have hope, even through these last four years, but let's face it, now we all know the writing is on the wall. America is finished. The election was not a repudiation of Trump as it should have been. The basic machinations of democracy are questioned now by almost an entire party - who if they are not questioning it directly, are staying silent as their leader does. What are you going to focus on next since it's pretty evident this whole system is utterly fucked beyond repair?

Jesus christ.....are you for real bro?? Is this the kinda shit that keeps you up at night because if that is the case then you need to step outside for a minute. Shit man your post reads like a mad mans dossier more than anything else. I know you won't take my advice seriously but I'm trying to help.

Take the aluminum foil that you got around the house and toss it out. Just throw it in the garbage it's not doing anything to help you. Then delete ALL the bookmarks in your browser. This is the big one and it's going to hurt the most but only at first but trust me in the long run it's only going to help you.

 

[MrSquished]

Jesus christ.....are you for real bro?? Is this the kinda shit that keeps you up at night because if that is the case then you need to step outside for a minute. Shit man your post reads like a mad mans dossier more than anything else. I know you won't take my advice seriously but I'm trying to help.

Take the aluminum foil that you got around the house and toss it out. Just throw it in the garbage it's not doing anything to help you. Then delete ALL the bookmarks in your browser. This is the big one and it's going to hurt the most but only at first but trust me in the long run it's only going to help you.

74 million Americans saw trump and not only wanted more, but made the effort to vote for him. He is eroding the very legitimacy of democracy and the vast majority of an entire political party is going along with it. I see it online all the time. It's not six degrees of separation on social media, it's people I've met or people on their pages. It's a pandemic of political stupidity that makes covid look like a sneeze.

Politically the country is at its tipping point. A democracy is only valuable if the voters live in reality and are somewhat informed. If Trump got 10 million votes we'd be alright, but 74? Put a lid on it.

 

[mect]

For anyone interested, here is a good interview on the topic from Amanpour..

 

[ivwshane]

As a center-lefty who voted Democrat, I can say one thing: Democrats aren't the solution. Neither are Republicans. But what's going on politically are symptoms of a failing governance model. Checks and balances don't matter when the ones doing the checking and balancing are in on it too. The number of loopholes and carve-outs for lobbying and pork-barreling and pet projects and personal enrichment are insane. Until that ends, we will be stuck in this cycle. I see so many people complaining that police never get held accountable by other officers; well, look at our politicians too!

That’s some extremely intellectually lazy thinking right there. For one, the difference in the two parties in terms of being part of the problem or being the solution couldn’t be any larger. I mean one party actually tried to reign in corporations, fraud, and enact protections for consumers while the other party has done the opposite.

Second, lobbying, pork barrel spending, and pet projects have been apart of the political system EXCEPT very recently (2010/2011) and only has recently been reinstated (or the ban lifted). So that little experiment obviously failed as almost nothing got done between those years.

But go ahead, keep voting for a third party and wonder why things keep getting worse.

 

[ivwshane]

Gosh, you're dumb.

Like unbelievably dumb.

He chided someone for using a talking point (they didn’t) and then proceeded to use a talking point that’s easily debunked.

Some people are ignorant and others like him are just fucking dumb as a rock. I’m convinced the guy drinks bleach to keep the covid away.

 

[ivwshane]

As far as the OP’s question is concerned: I’ll be right here in America doing what I always do, voting to make things better for all Americans, especially those who aren’t as fortunate as me. I’ll continue paying my taxes and voting for tax increases/decreases when they make sense.

The main difference I’ll be making is investing more and diversifying my portfolio.

If I move it will be to some place that offers more access to my hobbies, such as snowboarding, camping, and community sports. Most places I’ve looked at aren’t cheaper than where I’m at in California so moving for monetary reasons seems unlikely.

 

[bbhaag]

74 million Americans saw trump and not only wanted more, but made the effort to vote for him. He is eroding the very legitimacy of democracy and the vast majority of an entire political party is going along with it. I see it online all the time. It's not six degrees of separation on social media, it's people I've met or people on their pages. It's a pandemic of political stupidity that makes covid look like a sneeze.

Politically the country is at its tipping point. A democracy is only valuable if the voters live in reality and are somewhat informed. If Trump got 10 million votes we'd be alright, but 74? Put a lid on it.

Holy shit you're more gone than I thought.....So 74million Americans exercised there right to vote and you have a very strong opinion against them doing that. To the point were it almost reads like you don't think they should have the right to vote at all......damn bro.

 

[MrSquished]

Holy shit you're more gone than I thought.....So 74million Americans exercised there right to vote and you have a very strong opinion against them doing that. To the point were it almost reads like you don't think they should have the right to vote at all......damn bro.

The fact you think what I said implies I don't think they should have the right to vote just goes to show how far gone you are. I mean seriously. Saying a democracy depends upon an informed populace living in reality is not the same as saying they shouldn't have the right to vote.

Take some meds. You are batshit.

 

[bbhaag]

Yeah it was prolly that first sentence that threw me for a loop. You know the one were you said "74 million Americans saw trump and not only wanted more, but made the effort to vote for him. He is eroding the very legitimacy of democracy and the vast majority of an entire political party is going along with it."

Maybe it's me but it's kinda easy to see how people who don't frequent P&N could interpret your posts differently than you intended.