What are your plans now that we all know America is on a steep and inevitable decline?

[ponyo]

That's all fine and dandy until the clashing groups around you start the war they desire.

We haven't had war on American soil since 1865.

 

[pmv]

I do think the US system is creaking-at-the-seams because it's been allowed to ossify for centuries. In part because it was designed by the over-rated gang you call the Founding Fathers to be insanely difficult to change (like, why is the transition period so long anyway? The new administration no longer has to cross the country on horseback to reach the capital. Why, when you did try and formalise the transition process, did you not make it a legal requirement for the old administration's appointees to co-operate with the incoming administration and release the funds required? Why leave it as a voluntary choice by a political appointee?).

Sooner-or-later a more competent wanna-be-despot will arise, who will make a better job than Trump has of exploiting the system's multiple, manifest weaknesses. Trump has done the country a huge favour by revealing how vulnerable the system is, while being too personally dysfunctional to truly take advantage of it.

But are we talking about relative or absolute decline? Because with respect to the former, I don't see things are going a whole lot better anywhere else. The US, as always, is generously allowing the whole world to see it and comment on it, but it seems like the exact same problems are present almost everywhere. That Fukayama 'end of history'/'triumph of liberal democracy and capitalism' thesis is looking more-dramatically-wrong with each year that passes.

The only candidate for a 'rising power' who would make US 'decline' a relative one, would I guess be China. But China clearly has massive challenges of its own and has a very long way to go to overtake the US on almost any dimension (economic, military, cultural influence, or quality-of-life). And by the time China comes close to doing so it may very well have run into the same crises as the US - or something worse.

 

[sandorski]

We haven't had war on American soil since 1865.

Ya, and?

 

[Starbuck1975]

The system is fine. The people who’ve been conditioned to a preference for one party rule are the problem.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm always amazed at the all the chicken littles running around screaming doom and gloom for the US. Seriously, step outside and get some fresh air. Travel and see the vast and great land of ours and refocus and get help on your mental state. I question your mental state if you think this country is falling apart and on steep and drop off the cliff decline.

US is fine. Are we going to be the number #1 economic power in the world in the future? No. China will be. But that's ok. Nothing can stop China from becoming #1 economic power in the future. It's just simple math. But is it bad being number #2 economic power? No. US will still be #1 in political power. US is still and will be the land of opportunity and the envy of the world.

I don't know if it's hate or rage that prevents people from being able to look at the big picture but so many people have trouble seeing. I just find it remarkable they're so obsessed with looking for all the small things that are wrong that they miss all the big things that are great. Focus on the big picture. Don't let your obsession with politics close your eyes and mind. That will lead you nowhere and will severely hurt you in all aspects of your life.

I agree that Americans tend to constantly think the country is much worse off than it actually is. Anyone looking at the events of the last four years who doesn’t see major signs of political instability is delusional, however.

 

[sandorski]

I do think the US system is creaking-at-the-seams because it's been allowed to ossify for centuries. In part because it was designed by the over-rated gang you call the Founding Fathers to be insanely difficult to change (like, why is the transition period so long anyway? The new administration no longer has to cross the country on horseback to reach the capital. Why, when you did try and formalise the transition process, did you not make it a legal requirement for the old administration's appointees to co-operate with the incoming administration and release the funds required? Why leave it as a voluntary choice by a political appointee?).

Sooner-or-later a more competent wanna-be-despot will arise, who will make a better job than Trump has of exploiting the system's multiple, manifest weaknesses. Trump has done the country a huge favour by revealing how vulnerable the system is, while being too personally dysfunctional to truly take advantage of it.

But are we talking about relative or absolute decline? Because with respect to the former, I don't see things are going a whole lot better anywhere else. The US, as always, is generously allowing the whole world to see it and comment on it, but it seems like the exact same problems are present almost everywhere. That Fukayama 'end of history'/'triumph of liberal democracy and capitalism' thesis is looking more-dramatically-wrong with each year that passes.

The only candidate for a 'rising power' who would make US 'decline' a relative one, would I guess be China. But China clearly has massive challenges of its own and has a very long way to go to overtake the US on almost any dimension (economic, military, cultural influence, or quality-of-life). And by the time China comes close to doing so it may very well have run into the same crises as the US - or something worse.

Trump has another 1.5 months to continue to undermine US Domestic Institutions and/or ratchet up tensions with Iran/Others. The tabulation of Votes should occur within a Week and the winner should be sworn in within 2 or 3 at most.

 

[ponyo]

I agree that Americans tend to constantly think the country is much worse off than it actually is. Anyone looking at the events of the last four years who doesn’t see major signs of political instability is delusional, however.

I don't think Americans tend to negatively think about their country. I think people on this forum tend to be so close minded and crazy with their political views that it blinds them to the truth. America is fine.

The fact America can survive someone like Trump should be viewed positive.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think Americans tend to negatively think about their country. I think people on this forum tend to be so close minded and crazy with their political views that it blinds them to the truth. America is fine.

America may or may not be fine, but Americans don’t think it is.

Looking to the Future, Public Sees an America in Decline on Many Fronts

When Americans peer 30 years into the future, they see a country in decline economically, politically and on the world stage.

www.pewsocialtrends.org

Does this change your evaluation any?

The fact America can survive someone like Trump should be viewed positive.

I strongly disagree, and Trump is a symptom of our instability, not a cause. I think it is entirely obvious that if Richard Nixon were president today he would not have been forced from office.

Almost every single country with a system designed after ours has seen it collapse because split sovereignty between the legislature and the executive eventually leads to consolidation of executive power. The US stood as a shining counter-example to this but now we are exhibiting the exact same signs of political instability other presidential systems displayed.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Still waiting on all those celebrities to move to Canada that said they would if Donald Trump won the presidency.

Notice - it's always "I'm moving to Canada!"... definitely don't want to be near those horrible brown folks in Mexico



But don't worry little buddy - much like our moronic celebrities - you will be right here, staying still, continuing to bend over to the typical government that you know and love.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

This is you.

And...... ironically, this is you (and countless others here)

 

[sandorski]

Still waiting on all those celebrities to move to Canada that said they would if Donald Trump won the presidency.

Notice - it's always "I'm moving to Canada!"... definitely don't want to be near those horrible brown folks in Mexico



But don't worry little buddy - much like our moronic celebrities - you will be right here, staying still, continuing to bend over to the typical government that you know and love.

Cope harder Dude.

 

[Ken g6]

Yes, I’m looking at Central America most likely, you can live incredibly cheaply there. Plans have a way of going awry or whatever, but hopefully it all works out.

I think that, whatever condition the US is in, Central America will be worse. I'm thinking maybe Spain or Portugal.

You need some sun, maybe a little time out with real people living their lives.

But that's true, I need to travel more and find out where I might prefer to live.

 

[MtnMan]

You need some sun, maybe a little time out with real people living their lives.

You need a reality check, perhaps some education beyond the 5th grade level you seem to be stuck at, and to stop using facebook as your infallible source.

 

[Muse]

One of my big passions is politics, and I really did have hope, even through these last four years, but let's face it, now we all know the writing is on the wall. America is finished. The election was not a repudiation of Trump as it should have been. The basic machinations of democracy are questioned now by almost an entire party - who if they are not questioning it directly, are staying silent as their leader does. What are you going to focus on next since it's pretty evident this whole system is utterly fucked beyond repair?

Before you write off America, you might want to pay attention to what happens the next few years. I don't think the writing is on the wall yet. What Republicans think and feel now can change dramatically the next 2 years. Trump out of power is a huge change, wait and see. The Republican's faithlessness concerning the fairness of elections is unfounded. Unfounded notions have a way of disappearing like morning mist. Be patient.

However, I admit, I may leave the USA.

 

[vi edit]

I'm always amazed at the all the chicken littles running around screaming doom and gloom for the US. Seriously, step outside and get some fresh air. Travel and see the vast and great land of ours and refocus and get help on your mental state. I question your mental state if you think this country is falling apart and on steep and drop off the cliff decline.

US is fine. Are we going to be the number #1 economic power in the world in the future? No. China will be. But that's ok. Nothing can stop China from becoming #1 economic power in the future. It's just simple math. But is it bad being number #2 economic power? No. US will still be #1 in political power. US is still and will be the land of opportunity and the envy of the world.

I don't know if it's hate or rage that prevents people from being able to look at the big picture but so many people have trouble seeing. I just find it remarkable they're so obsessed with looking for all the small things that are wrong that they miss all the big things that are great. Focus on the big picture. Don't let your obsession with politics close your eyes and mind. That will lead you nowhere and will severely hurt you in all aspects of your life.

I'm not a doomer by any means, and I also live somewhere in the upper 2-3% of all Americans. I could take the stance that everything is fine since I'm benefiting from it. And I could probably go on living just fine. But the reality is that it's not fine. We have vast wealth disparity that is growing by the day. This is not good. We have racial inequalities that are still wildly out of control. We one half of our elected officials that have zero interest in governing and just expanding those gaps for their own benefit. We try and speak of life but many of our actions just end up with death. We aren't fine.

 

[ponyo]

I'm not a doomer by any means, and I also live somewhere in the upper 2-3% of all Americans. I could take the stance that everything is fine since I'm benefiting from it. And I could probably go on living just fine. But the reality is that it's not fine. We have vast wealth disparity that is growing by the day. This is not good. We have racial inequalities that are still wildly out of control. We one half of our elected officials that have zero interest in governing and just expanding those gaps for their own benefit. We try and speak of life but many of our actions just end up with death. We aren't fine.

Everything you mentioned existed before and will continue to exist. Social media and technology are just increasing the speed and availability of access and the magnitude of how we're receiving and processing news and information. Never in history have we been as interconnected with this amount of data publicly available for all to see. Sometimes when there is information overload, things can look vastly better or worse than reality and appear far worse than in the past.

 

[fskimospy]

I think that, whatever condition the US is in, Central America will be worse. I'm thinking maybe Spain or Portugal.

But that's true, I need to travel more and find out where I might prefer to live.

Oh I wouldn't be leaving the US due to political instability (unless it got really bad), I would be leaving because of cost concerns. If I wait until ~60 to retire I can live very comfortably in the US. I want to retire earlier though, so somewhere cheaper is in order.

 

[kage69]

Cope harder Dude.

It's only OK when business-before-country types leave over taxes. All other reasons lack patriotism and principles, funny how that works isn't it?

 

[vi edit]

Everything you mentioned existed before and will continue to exist. Social media and technology are just increasing the speed and availability of access and the magnitude of how we're receiving and processing news and information. Never in history have we been as interconnected with this amount of data publicly available for all to see. Sometimes when there is information overload, things can look vastly better or worse than reality and appear far worse than in the past.

That's not actually true.

 

[Stokely]

Well...I might not put it in the same exact terms, but I tend to agree with the OP. I think "we" are screwed. Mainly because people are committed and addicted to constructing alternate realities for themselves. The best we can hope for is that the closest thing to actual reality wins out, leaving roughly half of society angry and fearful and deluded. That's where we barely are right now.

Anyone think people are going to become less hooked on bullshit information over the next four years? If you read what QAnon puts out it puts Monty Python to shame, and yet how many people believe that utter nonsense?

I'd say the solution is to get out, but unfortunately the rest of the world is no more immune to screwing themselves over than America is. We just seem to be a bit better at it. That said, we've decided that when times get tough all the future millionaires are on their own, who needs a safety net--I think that is a really dangerous way to go. America is the guy saving money by not having health insurance (we sure as hell can afford it, unlike many actual people) and just hoping nothing dire happens to us. We've gotten off relatively lucky with Covid, the next one maybe not so much. One thing is for sure, the ultra rich will be ok--look how they have made out during the pandemic! We can all surely breath a sigh of relief over that.

 

[ponyo]

That's not actually true.

Wealth gap was just as big and bad in the early 1900 as it is now. If you look at a 100 year chart, it's a massive U shape curve. We're now in the 2nd upper half of the U curve.

Wealth gap is accelerating in modern times because the top 1 to 10% owns majority of the stocks and equities. Stock market had tremendous run. So it's only natural the rich benefited disproportionately. And wages have been stagnant and people are getting into bigger debts with credit cards and student loans. Investing is all about time and compounding. It takes money to make money and the rich already have plenty. So it's super easy to grow that money into more money at rapid rate. That's how wealth is built and maintained. Meanwhile, the rest of the working population is starting with gigantic handicap because of things like giant student loan and credit card debts. Majority will never come close to being rich. It's unfair system but that's what we have and always had.

 

[mect]

Everything you mentioned existed before and will continue to exist. Social media and technology are just increasing the speed and availability of access and the magnitude of how we're receiving and processing news and information. Never in history have we been as interconnected with this amount of data publicly available for all to see. Sometimes when there is information overload, things can look vastly better or worse than reality and appear far worse than in the past.

No, this is not the only influence of social media. Several studies have shown that social media magnifies false information. Social media is destroying our ability as citizens to even agree on a common set of facts. Never in history have we been so interconnected but at the same time disconnected. But that is really beside the point. It is history that shows that the US is about to decline (and is already in decline).

Look at the patterns of empires throughout history, and America is following in their paths. We are focusing all our resources on the elite and our wars, allowing our infrastructure and middle class to decay. I'm not saying that America is going to revert into a developing nation, but our day as the world power is ending. Trump destroyed our reputation abroad even beyond what Bush Jr did, and I don't think it will ever recover. The big question is how we move forward. Do we just fade into the background, and become a nice place to live like much of western Europe, or do we dissolve into dystopia with 95% of the population living in poverty while the other 5% hoard the resources?

 

[blackangst1]

Go visit some popular destination countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines, Brazil, Moscow, etc then see if you feel the same way. Im betting you wont.

 

[mect]

Wealth gap was just as big and bad in the early 1900 as it is now. If you look at a 100 year chart, it's a massive U shape curve. We're now in the 2nd upper half of the U curve.

Wealth gap is accelerating in modern times because the top 1 to 10% owns majority of the stocks and equities. Stock market had tremendous run. So it's only natural the rich benefited disproportionately. And wages have been stagnant and people are getting into bigger debts with credit cards and student loans. Investing is all about time and compounding. It takes money to make money and the rich already have plenty. So it's super easy to grow that money into more money at rapid rate. That's how wealth is built and maintained. Meanwhile, the rest of the working population is starting with gigantic handicap because of things like giant student loan and credit card debts. Majority will never come close to being rich. It's unfair system but that's what we have and always had.

This is not the system we have always had. We used to have a much more progressive tax system, with stronger labor protections, stronger unions, and affordable higher education.

 

[pmv]

Wealth gap was just as big and bad in the early 1900 as it is now. If you look at a 100 year chart, it's a massive U shape curve. We're now in the 2nd upper half of the U curve.

Wealth gap is accelerating in modern times because the top 1 to 10% owns majority of the stocks and equities. Stock market had tremendous run. So it's only natural the rich benefited disproportionately. And wages have been stagnant and people are getting into bigger debts with credit cards and student loans. Investing is all about time and compounding. It takes money to make money and the rich already have plenty. So it's super easy to grow that money into more money at rapid rate. That's how wealth is built and maintained. Meanwhile, the rest of the working population is starting with gigantic handicap because of things like giant student loan and credit card debts. Majority will never come close to being rich. It's unfair system but that's what we have and always had.

Between then and now there was a little thing called "World War Two". Actually _two_ world wars and a depression. Yes, it's the same system, but for several decades there was unprecedented social mobilty due to the post war boom (in good part due to the world's industrial capacity having been bombed to rubble and needing to be rebuilt). That is now over, and the previous trend has resumed. Are you quite sure that is going to turn out well?