what are the red washers for?
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BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
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They're used to protect the motherboard from the screws when you tighten them into the standoffs. I don't use them, but if you were to, it would be used between the screw head and the top of the motherboard. It's best to keep the bottom of the board uncovered so that the metal around the screw holes makes electrical contact with the case via the standoffs (provided they're not plastic).
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
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With the motherboard out of the case, put the mounting screw through the board and "thread" the red washer onto the screw from the underside of the board. The washers are used so you can both install the board and remove it without the screws coming free and rolling around, etc. The washers will retain the screw in the hole because the hole in the washer is slightly smaller than the diameter of the screw.
They have nothing to do with protecting the motherboard. That's what the the nubs of solder do around the screw holes. The solder keeps you from tightening down directly onto the PCB. If you look closely, these solder nubs go through the motherboard in a continuous path. There is a ring of small holes drilled around each screw hole. These holes are filled with solder and this solder protrudes out from both side of the board. When you tighten the screw, you are bearing against the solder.
Electrical contact in the area of the screws is neither necessary, nor provided for. There are no traces leading to the screw holes. Electrical conductivity through the screws in not required for grounding or any other purpose.
Think about it, if these red washers were required to insulate the board from the screws and/or screw holes, how come so many of us have running systems without them.
They have nothing to do with protecting the motherboard. That's what the the nubs of solder do around the screw holes. The solder keeps you from tightening down directly onto the PCB. If you look closely, these solder nubs go through the motherboard in a continuous path. There is a ring of small holes drilled around each screw hole. These holes are filled with solder and this solder protrudes out from both side of the board. When you tighten the screw, you are bearing against the solder.
Electrical contact in the area of the screws is neither necessary, nor provided for. There are no traces leading to the screw holes. Electrical conductivity through the screws in not required for grounding or any other purpose.
Think about it, if these red washers were required to insulate the board from the screws and/or screw holes, how come so many of us have running systems without them.
<< if these red washers were required to insulate the board from the screws and/or screw holes, how come so many of us have running systems without them. >>
I was under the impression that the washers were protective to the m/board against overtightening of screws like what ST4RCUTTER said & not for electrical insulation in any form!
They have nothing to do with protecting the motherboard. That's what the the nubs of solder do around the screw holes. The solder keeps you from tightening down directly onto the PCB. If you look closely, these solder nubs go through the motherboard in a continuous path. There is a ring of small holes drilled around each screw hole. These holes are filled with solder and this solder protrudes out from both side of the board. When you tighten the screw, you are bearing against the solder.
Electrical contact in the area of the screws is neither necessary, nor provided for. There are no traces leading to the screw holes. Electrical conductivity through the screws in not required for grounding or any other purpose.
Good post. Guess you learn something new everyday.
When I first started installing motherboards I referenced many sites like this and this, so you can understand the confusion. It seems that everyone has their own reasons for installing the red washers either above or below the motherboard.
The metal surrounding each mounting screw is indeed used for grounding purposes. It's not required (as demostrated by plastic standoffs), merely advisable. Don't take my word for it though:
Grounding screws
More grounding...
grounding...
Good luck with your builds!
Electrical contact in the area of the screws is neither necessary, nor provided for. There are no traces leading to the screw holes. Electrical conductivity through the screws in not required for grounding or any other purpose.
Good post. Guess you learn something new everyday.
When I first started installing motherboards I referenced many sites like this and this, so you can understand the confusion. It seems that everyone has their own reasons for installing the red washers either above or below the motherboard.The metal surrounding each mounting screw is indeed used for grounding purposes. It's not required (as demostrated by plastic standoffs), merely advisable. Don't take my word for it though:
Grounding screws
More grounding...
grounding...
Good luck with your builds!
"What are the red washers for?" is like the age old question "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"
The only answer I will ever accept as definitive is one from a motherboard manufacturer's website or documentation. So far I haven't seen such.
boomerang's explanation is as plausible as any, although I don't accept it. There are and alway have been screwdrivers and other devices, non-magnetic of course, that will hold a screw as you guide it into the hole.
My theory, which will be rejected by others who have formulated their own, is that the washer belongs between the screw head and the motherboard to act as a cushion. Expansion and contraction due to heat could cause the screws to loosen over time but the softer washer would compensate for the changing thickness, not of the motherboard pcb, but of the metal ring. Also, I don't believe the metal rings in the motherboard mounting holes are solder. Solder is way too soft to be applying any pressure to it. This can be quickly verified by one of you with a dead board hanging on his wall by applying a hot soldering iron to one of the rings. If I'm wrong let me know.
Another thought I've had which carries just as much credence as any other is that early PC (MAC?) motherboards, 8086 or something older, didn't have the metal rings around the mounting holes and the washers were used to prevent crushing of the pcb or whatever material was being used at that time. Although I'm older than dirt in the eyes of some, like my kids, my PC experience doesn't go back far enough to verify this. If there's anyone out there who's been around long enough to verify or dispute this, come on back. I'm always ready to learn something new.
I've been curious about this for a long time but have never found an authoritative source that I could accept unequivocably.
BTW, I sometimes use the washers and sometimes don't. It just depends on how I feel and how big a hurry I'm in. Deep down inside I don't believe you need them any more than men need teats.
IMO
The only answer I will ever accept as definitive is one from a motherboard manufacturer's website or documentation. So far I haven't seen such.
boomerang's explanation is as plausible as any, although I don't accept it. There are and alway have been screwdrivers and other devices, non-magnetic of course, that will hold a screw as you guide it into the hole.
My theory, which will be rejected by others who have formulated their own, is that the washer belongs between the screw head and the motherboard to act as a cushion. Expansion and contraction due to heat could cause the screws to loosen over time but the softer washer would compensate for the changing thickness, not of the motherboard pcb, but of the metal ring. Also, I don't believe the metal rings in the motherboard mounting holes are solder. Solder is way too soft to be applying any pressure to it. This can be quickly verified by one of you with a dead board hanging on his wall by applying a hot soldering iron to one of the rings. If I'm wrong let me know.
Another thought I've had which carries just as much credence as any other is that early PC (MAC?) motherboards, 8086 or something older, didn't have the metal rings around the mounting holes and the washers were used to prevent crushing of the pcb or whatever material was being used at that time. Although I'm older than dirt in the eyes of some, like my kids, my PC experience doesn't go back far enough to verify this. If there's anyone out there who's been around long enough to verify or dispute this, come on back. I'm always ready to learn something new.
I've been curious about this for a long time but have never found an authoritative source that I could accept unequivocably.
BTW, I sometimes use the washers and sometimes don't. It just depends on how I feel and how big a hurry I'm in. Deep down inside I don't believe you need them any more than men need teats.
IMO
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
First I must say that what I posted earlier is, in fact my opinion. I would have to heartily agree with HappyPuppy's statement "The only answer I will ever accept as definitive is one from a motherboard manufacturer's website or documentation. So far I haven't seen such.".
With that said, I would like to submit the following as evidence to support my claim of the purpose of the solder nubs. Sorry, but my camera will focus no closer than 6" and I don't have the proper lens. Actually, my picture proves nothing, but look at it anyway if not for anything but the entertainment value.
I will not however back off on my statemnent concerning the use of screws for grounding purposes. How many of us have run a system external of the case, with the power supply, drives, etc. hooked up and laying out and about. No grounding back to the power supply whatsoever unless you consider the wires from the power connector on the motherboard to the power supply itself which are, in fact, the true means of grounding. And I have to reiterate, there are no traces leading to the screw hole areas. No means of electrical conductivity exists. If anyone can submit a photo showing traces on the PCB running to the mounting screw areas, I will stand corrected.
As far as red washers providing a means to prevent crushing the PCB, if that were the case, then washers should be installed on both sides of the motherboard to prevent crushing from occuring between the contact surface of the mobo and the standoffs. So I can't really buy that theory either. Further, I have never received these washers with the purchase of a motherboard. Only with a case. And only with some cases. So what's up with that?
The only aspect of this topic that gets to me is when I read people saying that the washers should be put under the head of the screw to prevent shorting out the motherboard. I wonder how they prevent the threaded portion of the screw from touching the metal ring on the mobo. If they need them on the top side of the board to prevent shorting, why don't they need them on the bottom? When I read this, I just want to scream.
Use the washers, don't use the washers, metal standoffs, plastic standoffs, it all works. This is great fun, I love lively discussions.
With that said, I would like to submit the following as evidence to support my claim of the purpose of the solder nubs. Sorry, but my camera will focus no closer than 6" and I don't have the proper lens. Actually, my picture proves nothing, but look at it anyway if not for anything but the entertainment value.
I will not however back off on my statemnent concerning the use of screws for grounding purposes. How many of us have run a system external of the case, with the power supply, drives, etc. hooked up and laying out and about. No grounding back to the power supply whatsoever unless you consider the wires from the power connector on the motherboard to the power supply itself which are, in fact, the true means of grounding. And I have to reiterate, there are no traces leading to the screw hole areas. No means of electrical conductivity exists. If anyone can submit a photo showing traces on the PCB running to the mounting screw areas, I will stand corrected.
As far as red washers providing a means to prevent crushing the PCB, if that were the case, then washers should be installed on both sides of the motherboard to prevent crushing from occuring between the contact surface of the mobo and the standoffs. So I can't really buy that theory either. Further, I have never received these washers with the purchase of a motherboard. Only with a case. And only with some cases. So what's up with that?
The only aspect of this topic that gets to me is when I read people saying that the washers should be put under the head of the screw to prevent shorting out the motherboard. I wonder how they prevent the threaded portion of the screw from touching the metal ring on the mobo. If they need them on the top side of the board to prevent shorting, why don't they need them on the bottom? When I read this, I just want to scream.
Use the washers, don't use the washers, metal standoffs, plastic standoffs, it all works. This is great fun, I love lively discussions.
I'd really wonder why you'd think a plastic washer prevents one from crushing anything from overtightening? You can still overtighten the screw as in any application where one screws, bolts, or fastens things together.
Washers come in two versions: flat and lockwashers. Lock washers have an obvious job......prevent parts from loosening up from vibration, expansion and contraction, etc. Flat washers can do a few things: a spacer, prevent galling or damage of the equipment by the fastener, help distribute fasterner load during torquing, as fluid seals (copper comes most readily to mind as used in autos and faucets), and to provide a smooth surface for two moving components as with teflon washers.
But one can easily crush whatever is behind the washer by just tightening too much.......a wahser won't stop that.
Washers come in two versions: flat and lockwashers. Lock washers have an obvious job......prevent parts from loosening up from vibration, expansion and contraction, etc. Flat washers can do a few things: a spacer, prevent galling or damage of the equipment by the fastener, help distribute fasterner load during torquing, as fluid seals (copper comes most readily to mind as used in autos and faucets), and to provide a smooth surface for two moving components as with teflon washers.
But one can easily crush whatever is behind the washer by just tightening too much.......a wahser won't stop that.
I will not however back off on my statemnent concerning the use of screws for grounding purposes. How many of us have run a system external of the case, with the power supply, drives, etc. hooked up and laying out and about. No grounding back to the power supply whatsoever unless you consider the wires from the power connector on the motherboard to the power supply itself which are, in fact, the true means of grounding. And I have to reiterate, there are no traces leading to the screw hole areas. No means of electrical conductivity exists. If anyone can submit a photo showing traces on the PCB running to the mounting screw areas, I will stand corrected.
Lively...
Let me first say that grounding the motherboard to the chasis is not required for operation, merely recommended for proper installation. There is a grounding pin on the 20-pin ATX power connector. This should have electrical contact with the grounding plane on the PCB. Remember that a PC board is made of layers, and the grounding layer may not been visible. It's this layer that can make contact with the grounding screw or metal rings, depending on how it's affixed to the motherboard.
Here's an Intel document describing the ways in which motherboard manufacturers can reduce EMI through proper board layout. Here's a snippet from page 8.
"Provide multiple direct metal-to-metal contacts for circuit board grounds to the chassis connections, unless the circuit ground must float. Unintended insulation formed by paint over-spray, washers, or non-conductive coatings degrade the ground connection and increase radiation levels."
I'm pretty sure they mean standoffs when they say "chassis connections". I could be wrong though.
Lively...
Let me first say that grounding the motherboard to the chasis is not required for operation, merely recommended for proper installation. There is a grounding pin on the 20-pin ATX power connector. This should have electrical contact with the grounding plane on the PCB. Remember that a PC board is made of layers, and the grounding layer may not been visible. It's this layer that can make contact with the grounding screw or metal rings, depending on how it's affixed to the motherboard.
Here's an Intel document describing the ways in which motherboard manufacturers can reduce EMI through proper board layout. Here's a snippet from page 8.
"Provide multiple direct metal-to-metal contacts for circuit board grounds to the chassis connections, unless the circuit ground must float. Unintended insulation formed by paint over-spray, washers, or non-conductive coatings degrade the ground connection and increase radiation levels."
I'm pretty sure they mean standoffs when they say "chassis connections". I could be wrong though.
The red washers are simply there to keep the head of the screws from grabbing the solder pad on the motherboard and ripping it off.
boomerang..........i like what you said.....especialy since i've been doing that for some time now..........taken it to a higher degree though.........super glued the washer so wont lose it over many board swaps
I stand corrected. But by golly, I've got to be right on some of that other stuff, dont I? I hope anyway.
Worthy of a rating bump...too bad you don't have "rate the user" enabled in your profile.
Worthy of a rating bump...too bad you don't have "rate the user" enabled in your profile.
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