What are people talking about when they say "video encoding"?

[avi85]

What are people talking about when they say "video encoding"?
Are they talking about profesional video editing or is this a "legal" way to say "I copy DVD rentals and my friend's DVDs with DVD Shrink"?

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: avi85
What are people talking about when they say "video encoding"?
Are they talking about profesional video editing or is this a "legal" way to say "I copy DVD rentals and my friend's DVDs with DVD Shrink"?

Well, firstly you have to understand what a codec is (encode/decode). Raw video is far too large to process and store efficiently, so there have been a number of algorithms created to compress the video and audio...some of them are MPEG1/2/3/4, different types of AVI, WVM, Quicktime, etc...
Also, there are different ways to compress within those formats...
There are also a large number of formats within THOSE formats...
What encoding does is to combine all of your video/audio into a single format. While this is certainly used for DVD copying, it's also used for a large number of less "shady" projects...

 

[mrred]

I transcode all the DVDs I buy into x264 format to put onto my media center PC.
Of course, people do that with rentals too.

 

[avi85]

Originally posted by: mrred
I transcode all the DVDs I buy into x264 format to put onto my media center PC.
Of course, people do that with rentals too.

what program do you use, and how much space does each movie take up after encoding?

 

[Furen]

I believe it is "illegal" to backup your movies. The DMCA pretty much banned anything that circumvents any copy protection and you can't transcode anything that is CSS encrypted. I think it's BS but I didn't write the law.

When people refer to encoding they refer to every kind of video manipulation that involves transcoding. Viditor here does it for a living, I believe. Some people transcode their home video, custom-made clips, etc. Me, I transcode nothing.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Furen
I believe it is "illegal" to backup your movies. The DMCA pretty much banned anything that circumvents any copy protection and you can't transcode anything that is CSS encrypted. I think it's BS but I didn't write the law.

That is correct, unfortunately.

Nobody is going to say or do anything to you if you buy a DVD, then transcode/encode it for use on a media center PC, however.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: avi85

Originally posted by: mrred
I transcode all the DVDs I buy into x264 format to put onto my media center PC.
Of course, people do that with rentals too.

what program do you use, and how much space does each movie take up after encoding?

x264 is a free encoder (one of the few that operate at professional quality, try Google) for HDTV. In general (there are far too many variables), a one-hour episod of HDTV encodes to ~1.1GB...

Edit: BTW, a one hour episode in the US is generally closer to 42 minutes long (commercials)...

 

[MADMAX23]

One thing is:
Transcoding: DVD Shrink...and others
and another thing very different is:
Encoding: CCE, ProCoder...the best ones out there

So when people talks about encoding, they are referring to encode video from scratch, taking a source video and re-encode it from scratch, not transcoding....

Encoding takes much more time than transcoding BTW...

 

[Furen]

Originally posted by: MADMAX23
One thing is:
Transcoding: DVD Shrink...and others
and another thing very different is:
Encoding: CCE, ProCoder...the best ones out there

So when people talks about encoding, they are referring to encode video from scratch, taking a source video and re-encode it from scratch, not transcoding....

Encoding takes much more time than transcoding BTW...

What are you talking about? Transcoding is the decoding and then encoding of something. Almost no one uses raw, unencoded sources, we usually deal with structured, encoded sources that need to be decoded before we can work on them.

 

[lopri]

Most pr0ns that you can rent are not copy-protected. In case you're interested.

 

[Duvie]

I take captured HDTV content and encode them to Xvid codec...I then take that and burn them on a DVD+R data disc for playback in my Upsampling DVD PLayer. I can fit 12 episodes on 1 disc...generally CSI LV and Miami episodes, as well as CW's Supernatural....

I also use my Pinnacle 10 program to take my RAW DV data and chop and dice, add menus, music,etc and basically make as professional looking DVDs of my home movies as possible...When the editing is all done it is rendered (encoded) to mpeg2 format and then placed into a DVD file format of ifo, bup, and vob files


I have used DVDshrink in the past and less so lately...I have no problem copying a DVD of a semi-lamearse movie that went from theater to DVD in like 4-6 months cause they have the nerve to charge 19.99-24.99 for it....I figure my video rental cost is what it was worth...I do less of this now cause I buy most of movies (previously viewed...I really scrutinize for scratches) anywhere from 4-5 dollars per movie....That is what most of this garbage is worth IMO....

I still buy all my childs DVDS (so hollywood is bending me over elsewehere)...

Transcoding of DVDshrink is popular when all you want is the movie. However due to the fact most are dual layer disk already with tons of extra content (movies from the early days barely had content other then the generic menus and feature film) if you want the whole disk you either pay waaaayyy too much for the media which then the whole things is pointless or you have to compress like 60% to get it to fit at a noticeable degradation (seen using upsampling DVD players and HDTV's)

I can tell you I saved a fortune in my sons early years making copies of movies I bought (honestly since I already say I will copy a DVD if I feel like it) becuase he would destroy the backups in short fashion. Now he is more responsible and the disk I paid 18-24 dollars still look brand new....


Hollywood can fvck itself IMHO....Sell that grabage for what it should be worth....5-7 bucks for all standard DVDs....7-10 for standard DVDs with limited or collectors edition stuff....15 max for HD DVD....This is my 2 cents

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: avi85
What are people talking about when they say "video encoding"?
Are they talking about profesional video editing or is this a "legal" way to say "I copy DVD rentals and my friend's DVDs with DVD Shrink"?

it can mean lots of things. like recoding live shows via tv tuner, converting 40 gb of anime episodes to 10 gb etc etc

 

[MADMAX23]

Originally posted by: Furen

What are you talking about? Transcoding is the decoding and then encoding of something. Almost no one uses raw, unencoded sources, we usually deal with structured, encoded sources that need to be decoded before we can work on them.

When people talks about DVD Shrink, Furen, they talk about transcoding video this way: recompressing files to a lower bitrate without changing formats....this concept not only applies to video, it does also apply to audio....

However, transcoding has also another meaning (more original or professional); Transcoding would be the direct digital-to-digital conversion from one (usually lossy) codec to another. It involves decoding/decompressing the original data to a raw intermediate format (i.e. PCM for audio or YUV for video), in a way that mimics standard playback of the lossy content, and then re-encoding this into the target format.

And this is what CCE and ProCoder do....and why people call them encoders rather than transcoders, because they decode/decompress the original data (input video) to a RAW intermediate format prior to encoding/reencoding, getting as video output the same video format or another different....

This is what I meant when I wrote "from scratch".

Actually, DVD Shrink, Procoder and CCE are all transcoders....but DVD Shrink works in a very different way (less professional = worse results) than the other two as I explained above...

So, relax Furen....

Cheers!!

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: MADMAX23

Originally posted by: Furen

What are you talking about? Transcoding is the decoding and then encoding of something. Almost no one uses raw, unencoded sources, we usually deal with structured, encoded sources that need to be decoded before we can work on them.

When people talks about DVD Shrink, Furen, they talk about transcoding video this way: recompressing files to a lower bitrate without changing formats....this concept not only applies to video, it does also apply to audio....

However, transcoding has also another meaning (more original or professional); Transcoding would be the direct digital-to-digital conversion from one (usually lossy) codec to another. It involves decoding/decompressing the original data to a raw intermediate format (i.e. PCM for audio or YUV for video), in a way that mimics standard playback of the lossy content, and then re-encoding this into the target format.

And this is what CCE and ProCoder do....and why people call them encoders rather than transcoders, because they decode/decompress the original data (input video) to a RAW intermediate format prior to encoding/reencoding, getting as video output the same video format or another different....

This is what I meant when I wrote "from scratch".

Actually, DVD Shrink, Procoder and CCE are all transcoders....but DVD Shrink works in a very different way (less professional = worse results) than the other two as I explained above...

So, relax Furen....

Cheers!!

I believe he was commenting on your comment
"Encoding takes much more time than transcoding BTW"

Since encoding is the second half of transcoding, that really doesn't make much sense...
BTW, DVD Shrink can and does change formats as well...
As to CCE and Procoder being the best, I guess it depends on what you are doing...

 

[MADMAX23]

Originally posted by: Viditor

I believe he was commenting on your comment
"Encoding takes much more time than transcoding BTW"

Since encoding is the second half of transcoding, that really doesn't make much sense...
BTW, DVD Shrink can and does change formats as well...
As to CCE and Procoder being the best, I guess it depends on what you are doing...

With all my respect Viditor, I think you hardly ever use these programs or maybe you haven't used them at all ....DVD Shrink cannot change the video output fomat, It will always be 720 x 576 (called Full-D1) DVD video format (MPEG-2).

About CCE and ProCoder....they are professional transcoders....and probably the best ones out there, check their prices...

 

[sdsdv10]

Originally posted by: Duvie
I also use my Pinnacle 10 program to take my RAW DV data and chop and dice, add menus, music,etc and basically make as professional looking DVDs of my home movies as possible...When the editing is all done it is rendered (encoded) to mpeg2 format and then placed into a DVD file format of ifo, bup, and vob files

Duvie,

What do you think of Pinnacle 10? I have version 9 and was thinking about upgrading. However, all the reviews I have read have been absolutely brutal. Any insights you can provide would be appreciated.

I have used DVD Shrink to put some PAL DVD onto a media extender for conversion to NTSC output, but mostly the computer is used for DV editing off our Sony camcorder.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: MADMAX23

Originally posted by: Viditor

I believe he was commenting on your comment
"Encoding takes much more time than transcoding BTW"

Since encoding is the second half of transcoding, that really doesn't make much sense...
BTW, DVD Shrink can and does change formats as well...
As to CCE and Procoder being the best, I guess it depends on what you are doing...

With all my respect Viditor, I think you hardly ever use these programs or maybe you haven't used them at all ....DVD Shrink cannot change the video output fomat, It will always be 720 x 576 (called Full-D1) DVD video format (MPEG-2).

About CCE and ProCoder....they are professional transcoders....and probably the best ones out there, check their prices...

It has been a very long time since I used DVDShrink...and I must admit that I screwed up there (you are quite correct).
As to CCE and Procoder, I have indeed used them professionally (viditor=video+editor).
The reason I said "I guess it depends on what you are doing" is that they don't do HDTV at all...price really has nothing to do with it.
One of the very best encoders I've used is absolutely free...x264. The quality is superb, though it does require a good system to use properly.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: avi85
What are people talking about when they say "video encoding"?
Are they talking about profesional video editing or is this a "legal" way to say "I copy DVD rentals and my friend's DVDs with DVD Shrink"?

Just by the talk I hear between here and the wall, IMO when "most" people mention "video encoding" they mean ripping a DVD into a video file (AVI/MKV/etc container file using DIVX/XVID/x264/etc codecs).

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[MADMAX23]

Right Viditor, CCE and ProCoder cannot handle HDTV formats, but letting HD on a side (right now best suited for professionals), these are globally considered two of the best pro encoders out there for MPEG-2 video...that's all. I would like your opinion on those, of course, I didn't know you were a video editor...so any comments will be taken into account.

Cheers!