What am I missing? Antec TruePower new 750W... not impressed

[alexruiz]

Like many others, I have come to trust the advice received here in the forums. Most of the times the advice taken is spot on. A few rare times I end doubting the move. This is one of those times. By general consensus, the antec truepower new 750W was one of the best power supplies available. Glowing reviews by pretty much everyone. I took the hint, and also got one.... but I am not impressed. It is a good unit, no doubt, but I have yet to be wowed. What am I missing?

As background, my system is a gigabyte Ga-MA785G-UD3H, AMD Phenom II X4 955BE, 3 1TB hard drives (2 Samsung HD103SJ + 1 Hitachi deskstar 7K1000.C) and 4 optical drives. I am omitting the video card info as that is part of the puzzle

Power supply was OCz stealthxstream 600W (another unit with glowing reviews) It had before a radeon HD4830, single card. The OCZ was doing OK powering the system, but had an annoying up and down humming. It wasn't that big of a deal though.The deal breaker came when I upgraded video cards in the other machines (to HD5770s) and took one of the replaced HD4830 to use as crossfire in my machine. The system crashed when running games. I concluded quickly that the PSU was unable to feed the beast.

I got a Topower Zumax 750W (ZU-750) as replacement. The price was killer, the unit had 2 decent reviews, and I had seen the unit before at a local store. Very heavy unit. The Zumax had absolutely no trouble driving the crossfire setup. However, I was a little wary as topower is not considered top tier after further reading. The unit wasn't perfect either. It had a load of connectors, but is not modular. Tying them and hiding them took some time. Cables also were very long, making it easy for bottom mounted installation, but harder to conceal. Oh, and under load, it was very loud (fan is rated at ~ 96 CFM / 48 dBA full speed...)

In general, the zumax worked great. Very stable, no annying humming, quiet enough under light load, enough connectors to power 2 systems. I didn't know the 12V rails distribution (4 of them), but being labeled as "EPS" compliant I assumed it had also the wrong distribution of 2 rails dedicated to CPU (same as the OCZ) and only one to the GPUS, meaning that an eventual crossfire setup with higher than 4830s could bring it down. It was all my mind however, because as far as real life operation, the zumax was working great.

When the Antec true power new 750W was on sale, I jumped on it. Everyone loved it, had higher amp ratings in the 12V rails than the zumax, and it had separate 12V rails for the GPUs, so an eventual jump to higher powered crossfire was assured. I was expecting to be blown away by the unit....

I noticed it is shorter and lighter than the zumax, which I thought mean more efficient being mainly a 12V supply. Semi-modular meant less cables to conceal. Cables length was barely enough for the EPS connector (shorter than the zumax) Once installed, I noticed it was no more quiet than the zumax at light load (under heavy load it is quieter however) What was a noticeable dissapointment was to notice the humming was back at light loads. The zumax didn't have it. the fan is also fairly noisy. Ripple seemed the same (per PSU tester). In summary, the antec seems no better at the moment than the zumax, and it was $30 more expensive

So, in retrospect, What am I missing? Why the anoying up and down humming? Why am I not impressed with the Antec? Could it be that the zumax was a better unit that expected?

end of rant, feel free to comment


Alex
PS. To add insult to the injury, the zumax had a rebate. I got the rebate 19 days after mailing the submission. That's a new record for my rebates. The antec rebate is expected to take 70 days....

 

[Apocalypse23]

I really have had bad experiences with most PSU brands. The only ones I use right now are Corsair. I'd recommend you stick with Corsair. Thermaltake would be your second option.

 

[Apocalypse23]

edited: Corsair TX/HX, Seasonic, Thermaltake and Silverstone would be the only four options.

 

[Meghan54]

I am omitting the video card info as that is part of the puzzle

Power supply was OCz stealthxstream 600W (another unit with glowing reviews)

I got a Topower Zumax 750W (ZU-750).... I didn't know the 12V rails distribution (4 of them), but being labeled as "EPS" compliant I assumed it had also the wrong distribution of 2 rails dedicated to CPU (same as the OCZ) and only one to the GPUS,...

Honestly, I'm confused. You want help diagnosing a problem but instead seem to be almost trolling. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by hiding the video card identity. If you were truly serious about help, you'd reveal all components, not play petty games.

Second, I don't know where you read the "glowing" reviews of the StealthXStream. Voltage regulation of 3% isn't exactly what I'd call great by a long shot. But if you're using HardwareSecrets as your basis for glowing (and was the only reputable testing of that power supply), remember that at HS, the tester's emphasis is on how much the unit can put out beyond rated capacity.

The Zumax....I don't understand what you mean by "wrong rail distribution" in relation to EPS cert'd. The Zumax you had was a 4 rail ATX 2.2/EPS cert'd power supply. The rail distribution is +12V1 is for the ATX/EPS 4+4 pin connector, +12V2 is for the ATX 20+4 pin connector and SATA/IDE connectors, +12V3 and +12V4 are dedicated to gpu/PCI-e use.

But where did you find any reputable reviews of that power supply? Certainly not at Hardware Secrets, or Jonny Guru or HardOCP.

And how did you test the ripple on the Antec? What oscilloscope did you use? I'd be surprised if any reputable review/examination of the Zumax vs. the Antec would put both on equal footing, given the Antec is a Seasonic built unit based on the M12D. The Antec uses Japanese caps, Chemi-Con, exclusively throughout its contruction, much different than the Zumax with its mix of Chinese and Taiwanese caps....both markedly inferior to Japanese caps.


Finally, the Zumax runs so quietly because the fan is purposely run at lower speeds vs. what both the OCZ and Antec run at their lowest settings. Topower does this intentionally to combat noise but at the expense of the power supply running hotter internally.

 

[tomoyo]

Honestly I'm not seeing the point in this post.
I assume the psu itself is working fine and the functionality is what you would have hoped.
The reason the truepower new has good reviews is because of the very stable rails, very good efficiency, and good components inside. There have been very few reviews regarding the noise level of the psu or if you get any type of humming or buzzing (which seems an issue in EVERY SINGLE BRAND of psu). So I don't see what the issue is there outside of some weird noises you need to diagnose or do a RMA for.

 

[Antec_Rep]

Like many others, I have come to trust the advice received here in the forums. Most of the times the advice taken is spot on. A few rare times I end doubting the move. This is one of those times. By general consensus, the antec truepower new 750W was one of the best power supplies available. Glowing reviews by pretty much everyone. I took the hint, and also got one.... but I am not impressed. It is a good unit, no doubt, but I have yet to be wowed. What am I missing?

As background, my system is a gigabyte Ga-MA785G-UD3H, AMD Phenom II X4 955BE, 3 1TB hard drives (2 Samsung HD103SJ + 1 Hitachi deskstar 7K1000.C) and 4 optical drives. I am omitting the video card info as that is part of the puzzle

Power supply was OCz stealthxstream 600W (another unit with glowing reviews) It had before a radeon HD4830, single card. The OCZ was doing OK powering the system, but had an annoying up and down humming. It wasn't that big of a deal though.The deal breaker came when I upgraded video cards in the other machines (to HD5770s) and took one of the replaced HD4830 to use as crossfire in my machine. The system crashed when running games. I concluded quickly that the PSU was unable to feed the beast.

I got a Topower Zumax 750W (ZU-750) as replacement. The price was killer, the unit had 2 decent reviews, and I had seen the unit before at a local store. Very heavy unit. The Zumax had absolutely no trouble driving the crossfire setup. However, I was a little wary as topower is not considered top tier after further reading. The unit wasn't perfect either. It had a load of connectors, but is not modular. Tying them and hiding them took some time. Cables also were very long, making it easy for bottom mounted installation, but harder to conceal. Oh, and under load, it was very loud (fan is rated at ~ 96 CFM / 48 dBA full speed...)

In general, the zumax worked great. Very stable, no annying humming, quiet enough under light load, enough connectors to power 2 systems. I didn't know the 12V rails distribution (4 of them), but being labeled as "EPS" compliant I assumed it had also the wrong distribution of 2 rails dedicated to CPU (same as the OCZ) and only one to the GPUS, meaning that an eventual crossfire setup with higher than 4830s could bring it down. It was all my mind however, because as far as real life operation, the zumax was working great.

When the Antec true power new 750W was on sale, I jumped on it. Everyone loved it, had higher amp ratings in the 12V rails than the zumax, and it had separate 12V rails for the GPUs, so an eventual jump to higher powered crossfire was assured. I was expecting to be blown away by the unit....

I noticed it is shorter and lighter than the zumax, which I thought mean more efficient being mainly a 12V supply. Semi-modular meant less cables to conceal. Cables length was barely enough for the EPS connector (shorter than the zumax) Once installed, I noticed it was no more quiet than the zumax at light load (under heavy load it is quieter however) What was a noticeable dissapointment was to notice the humming was back at light loads. The zumax didn't have it. the fan is also fairly noisy. Ripple seemed the same (per PSU tester). In summary, the antec seems no better at the moment than the zumax, and it was $30 more expensive

So, in retrospect, What am I missing? Why the anoying up and down humming? Why am I not impressed with the Antec? Could it be that the zumax was a better unit that expected?

end of rant, feel free to comment


Alex
PS. To add insult to the injury, the zumax had a rebate. I got the rebate 19 days after mailing the submission. That's a new record for my rebates. The antec rebate is expected to take 70 days....

Hi Alex,

Some of the advantages that our Antec PSU (in this example the TruePower 750W) over our competitors is continuous power and we have (4) +12V output circuits provide maximum stable power for the CPU independently of the other peripherals.

If you are having trouble with the humming noise, please contact our customer support team and they will help you a solution to this problem. Please submit a ticket to our customer support team and they will get back to you as soon as they can.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/index.php?page=support_online

Regards,
Antec

 

[HOOfan 1]

Some of the advantages that our Antec PSU (in this example the TruePower 750W) over our competitors is continuous power and we have (4) +12V output circuits provide maximum stable power for the CPU independently of the other peripherals.

I am all for the Truepower New series...but that is all pure marketing BULL FLOP!!!

1) Most of Antec's ACTUAL competitors...like Corsair rate by continuous power

2) The number of rails on the PSU has JACK to do with stability. They are an over current protection only...they do not isolate 12V output from other peripherals...they only keep one peripheral from pulling too much current...by shutting down the PSU.

 

[tomoyo]

I am all for the Truepower New series...but that is all pure marketing BULL FLOP!!!

1) Most of Antec's ACTUAL competitors...like Corsair rate by continuous power

2) The number of rails on the PSU has JACK to do with stability. They are an over current protection only...they do not isolate 12V output from other peripherals...they only keep one peripheral from pulling too much current...by shutting down the PSU.

I've gotta agree with HOOfan about the marketing. Antec makes some great psus and has some very good customer service, but some of the statements about the psus are only applicable against the crap junk like raidmax/deer/etc. Against any legit psu brand, none of the comments about continuous power are true. Also the number of mostly virtualized rails is generally only important for OCP protections, not rail stability.

 

[alexruiz]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Sorry, had not been online in a while. I appreciate the answers

I'd be surprised if any reputable review/examination of the Zumax vs. the Antec would put both on equal footing, given the Antec is a Seasonic built unit based on the M12D. The Antec uses Japanese caps, Chemi-Con, exclusively throughout its contruction, much different than the Zumax with its mix of Chinese and Taiwanese caps....both markedly inferior to Japanese caps.

This is what I wanted to hear! :up

Honestly, I'm confused. You want help diagnosing a problem but instead seem to be almost trolling. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by hiding the video card identity. If you were truly serious about help, you'd reveal all components, not play petty games.

This, however, is not. The video card identity was revealed a few sentences later, and it was a midrange card, but I wanted to show the whole context

Second, I don't know where you read the "glowing" reviews of the StealthXStream. Voltage regulation of 3% isn't exactly what I'd call great by a long shot. But if you're using HardwareSecrets as your basis for glowing (and was the only reputable testing of that power supply), remember that at HS, the tester's emphasis is on how much the unit can put out beyond rated capacity.

Hardware secrets was the main one, but some other sites had also good ones. Hardware canucks and overclockers club for example

The Zumax....I don't understand what you mean by "wrong rail distribution" in relation to EPS cert'd. The Zumax you had was a 4 rail ATX 2.2/EPS cert'd power supply. The rail distribution is +12V1 is for the ATX/EPS 4+4 pin connector, +12V2 is for the ATX 20+4 pin connector and SATA/IDE connectors, +12V3 and +12V4 are dedicated to gpu/PCI-e use.

But where did you find any reputable reviews of that power supply? Certainly not at Hardware Secrets, or Jonny Guru or HardOCP.

Per the EPS spec, in a 750W PSU with 4 rails, rails 1 and 2 are dedicated to the CPU. Rail 3 is to the mobo and peripherials, rail 4 to the GPU(s) I already read the spec.... To be "EPS" compliant it would need to match that distribution.

The zumax website has 2 reviews linked. Both of them were positive. Oh, and as far as not being HS, jonny guru or hardocp, as long as the methodology is clear and makes sense, it is valid.

And how did you test the ripple on the Antec? What oscilloscope did you use? I'd be surprised if any reputable review/examination of the Zumax vs. the Antec would put both on equal footing, given the Antec is a Seasonic built unit based on the M12D.

An scope will provide the waveshape and show transients and spikes, but any decent multimeter in "AC" (meaning, AC capacitor coupling to eliminate the DC value) will do a good job of providing the RMS ripple value. I did it myself, both of them were fairly close, need to find my values.....

Finally, the Zumax runs so quietly because the fan is purposely run at lower speeds vs. what both the OCZ and Antec run at their lowest settings. Topower does this intentionally to combat noise but at the expense of the power supply running hotter internally.

You are wrong here. I clearly posted that at full steam, the zumax was very noisy (like 48 dBA or so). I expected the antec to be much quieter at light loads, being a more efficient design. Both of them cheaped out in the fan.

 

[alexruiz]

Hi Alex,

Some of the advantages that our Antec PSU (in this example the TruePower 750W) over our competitors is continuous power and we have (4) +12V output circuits provide maximum stable power for the CPU independently of the other peripherals.

If you are having trouble with the humming noise, please contact our customer support team and they will help you a solution to this problem. Please submit a ticket to our customer support team and they will get back to you as soon as they can.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/index.php?page=support_online

Regards,
Antec

Thanks. For some reason, the humming noise seems to be mainly "mechanical" .The case is a coolermaster gladiator, bottom mounted PSU. The desk has a "compartment" dedicated to a tower. If the computer is in in the computer desk space , it hums. On the floor it doesn't!! Sometimes, just touching the case makes the humming stop. Being the zumax heavier, I assume it provided a more stable center of mass to the case...

 

[StinkyPinky]

I have the 650W version of this and it's fine.

Never heard any humming noise?

 

[HOOfan 1]

An scope will provide the waveshape and show transients and spikes, but any decent multimeter in "AC" (meaning, AC capacitor coupling to eliminate the DC value) will do a good job of providing the RMS ripple value. I did it myself, both of them were fairly close, need to find my values.....

That isn't ripple...the ripple IS the AC wave amplitudes.

 

[Zap]

Sometimes, just touching the case makes the humming stop.

There are things you can do to dampen the case humming. Look for materials similar to Dynamat. Apply that to the main panels of the case (both sides, top, bottom). You need the heavier material, not the thin foam stuff.

You can also try bending the tabs of your side panels slightly to make them fit tighter.

 

[yh125d]

Apoc, You really shouldn't be recommending thermaltake >.>

They have a couple good models in the higher end but realistically speaking there's a better antec/corsair/etc option at every price point

------


OP, don't be surprised that you're not wowed by the PSU. Really, no one is ever really wowed by a PSU. They just don't have that much to do with the end effwect of using your computer. If you buy a nice fast CPU or GPU, you'll see the difference in games/apps. When you buy a nice quality PSU, nothing really changes.


And if the humming stops when you touch the case or put it on the floor, that has nothing to do with the PSU. Most humming like that can be remedied by taking off and putting side panels back on, tightening screws, or my usual go-to method, rocking the case back and forth an inch or so a few times

 

[Modelworks]

Have you checked your outlets AC output ? Ground, neutral not mis wired ? Not over voltage or low ?
It is odd you have had a couple different supplies that make a humming sound. Usually that is caused by the coils vibrating against the ferrite cores and can be cured with a drop or two of silicone put on the coil. A drop or two of hot melt glue on the power supply case between it and the pc case can also stop noise and it can be removed easily if you need to.

 

[deimos3428]

Does the PSU make noise outside of the case, or just when it's installed in your case? (ie. fan vibrations making the case panels rattle). You can't really fault the PSU for the latter IMHO -- that's a case problem.

 

[alexruiz]

Thanks for the rest of the suggestions guys, you made my day!

I checked the AC outlets, they are fine.

The PSU doesn't hum outside of the case, it hums only in this case, and only when the case is in the desk compartment. It is a dampening issue What still strikes me is why the zumax didn't hum... yes, it was quite heavier

Working on that... my fist target is the desk itself, I am re tightening and making sure it is leveled.