WGU and salary questions

[Proprioceptive]

I'm starting my degree program in Network Operations and Security through WGU next month. It should take me no more than 3 terms to complete as I've transferred almost all gen eds from college way back when. I have the time and motivation to get this done quickly. I have absolutely no professional experience in the IT world. I have been working as a server/manager in the food industry for the last 8 years. I've been lucky enough to make decent money but It's time to move on. I have grown up around computers my whole life (father is a computer programmer) and I can competently navigate around most computer builds and minor troubleshooting. Just an FYI, I'm currently living in St Louis but will be looking for jobs in the suburbs of Chicago. I studied for and passed my A+ in two weeks in order to get into WGU and I have some questions I'll outline below:

1) Is it realistic to find a $50k+ job BEFORE completing my degree program... say I have my A+, Net+ and maybe a few other minor certs under my belt so far? I would be willing to take a job and move earlier and continue my studies while I finish the program.

2) After completing the program, I'll have the following certs... What kind of positions can I realistically land having no professional experience? What starting salaries can I expect?

• CompTIA A+
• CompTIA Cloud Essentials+
• CompTIA Network+
• CompTIA Security+
• CompTIA Project+
• CompTIA IT Operations Specialist
• CompTIA Secure Infrastructure Specialist
• Axelos ITIL®1 Foundation
• LPI Linux Essentials
• Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA)
• Amazon AWS SysOps Administration-Associate

3) If any of you have gone through WGU, how was your degree received? I have heard before they're respected in the field, but it's been a while.

Thanks!

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I'm starting my degree program in Network Operations and Security through WGU next month. It should take me no more than 3 terms to complete as I've transferred almost all gen eds from college way back when. I have the time and motivation to get this done quickly. I have absolutely no professional experience in the IT world. I have been working as a server/manager in the food industry for the last 8 years. I've been lucky enough to make decent money but It's time to move on. I have grown up around computers my whole life (father is a computer programmer) and I can competently navigate around most computer builds and minor troubleshooting. Just an FYI, I'm currently living in St Louis but will be looking for jobs in the suburbs of Chicago. I studied for and passed my A+ in two weeks in order to get into WGU and I have some questions I'll outline below:

1) Is it realistic to find a $50k+ job BEFORE completing my degree program... say I have my A+, Net+ and maybe a few other minor certs under my belt so far? I would be willing to take a job and move earlier and continue my studies while I finish the program.

2) After completing the program, I'll have the following certs... What kind of positions can I realistically land having no professional experience? What starting salaries can I expect?

• CompTIA A+
• CompTIA Cloud Essentials+
• CompTIA Network+
• CompTIA Security+
• CompTIA Project+
• CompTIA IT Operations Specialist
• CompTIA Secure Infrastructure Specialist
• Axelos ITIL®1 Foundation
• LPI Linux Essentials
• Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA)
• Amazon AWS SysOps Administration-Associate

3) If any of you have gone through WGU, how was your degree received? I have heard before they're respected in the field, but it's been a while.

Thanks!

I had places in lower COL areas offer me less than $50k, with 6 years of experience in the military. Having said that, 50k should be reasonable but don't be surprised if someone stuffs you on the help desk at $40k, and if you're lucky it'll not be in a city where that $40k won't be worth shit. If you can speak competently, as in, have actual knowledge of IT rather than just book garbage, you might be able to wiggle yourself up some, but the limited IT experience is really going to hamstring you.

Most of those certs would mean nothing to me if I was hiring you if you cannot honestly provide anecdotal experience of you actually doing work. You'll be leveraged well for networking with the CCNA, but you'd have to swing high to end up as a jr networking guy without any HD experience I think.

If you cannot find a decent jr networking or some kind of sysad job for a small shop, I'd recommend getting a helpdesk position at a place that's more than just a call center (look for places that expect you to be doing sysad stuff, like fixing servers/firewalls) and LEARN LEARN LEARN, literally everything you can about everything there. Find the Sr. guys and ask for network maps, ask for traffic flow between systems, if you're idle poke at the firewall rules and understand how everything works and why. Use that as your launch pad, if you know enough you can really flesh out a resume and talk your way through interviews and get systems administrator jobs that would otherwise be locked out to you. That's where you start making those $50k -> $65k -> $78k -> $95k jumps.

Also stay the fuck out of cities if you can. You'll get treated like shit, you'll end up feeling locked down to an area that will wring you dry, and at the end of everything, nobody looks back and says 'I'm glad i spent so much time in a city'.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I had places in lower COL areas offer me less than $50k, with 6 years of experience in the military. Having said that, 50k should be reasonable but don't be surprised if someone stuffs you on the help desk at $40k, and if you're lucky it'll not be in a city where that $40k won't be worth shit. If you can speak competently, as in, have actual knowledge of IT rather than just book garbage, you might be able to wiggle yourself up some, but the limited IT experience is really going to hamstring you.

Most of those certs would mean nothing to me if I was hiring you if you cannot honestly provide anecdotal experience of you actually doing work. You'll be leveraged well for networking with the CCNA, but you'd have to swing high to end up as a jr networking guy without any HD experience I think.

If you cannot find a decent jr networking or some kind of sysad job for a small shop, I'd recommend getting a helpdesk position at a place that's more than just a call center (look for places that expect you to be doing sysad stuff, like fixing servers/firewalls) and LEARN LEARN LEARN, literally everything you can about everything there. Find the Sr. guys and ask for network maps, ask for traffic flow between systems, if you're idle poke at the firewall rules and understand how everything works and why. Use that as your launch pad, if you know enough you can really flesh out a resume and talk your way through interviews and get systems administrator jobs that would otherwise be locked out to you. That's where you start making those $50k -> $65k -> $78k -> $95k jumps.

Also stay the fuck out of cities if you can. You'll get treated like shit, you'll end up feeling locked down to an area that will wring you dry, and at the end of everything, nobody looks back and says 'I'm glad i spent so much time in a city'.

Thanks for the info! Location is, unfortunately, not a choice at the moment. It's all divorce/custody related. Kids are priority number one. So, the western suburbs of Chicago are where I'll be searching. I hate cities as well. I have no desire to work there. I'm absolutely one to seek out the more experienced employees around me and rely on them for furthering knowledge. I have upward mobility and great references available to me in my current job, but I just can't be in the restaurant industry anymore. I have to get out. IT will allow me more opportunities as it is.

 

[Platypus]

1) It's possible, yes

2) Expect a lower salary if you have no in-field work experience coming out of school. Certs will only impress HR/hiring departments who have a hardcoded list of stuff to check a box on for working there. I put very little value in certifications personally, as I feel like most of them don't teach you that much and are a money making scam for whoever provides them. I've hired, managed, and interviewed countless people for work in information security and eng/ops teams on the UNIX systems side for both massive and tiny companies.

3) Sorry, no experience with that institution

For context, I work in computer security/vulnerability research and live and work in Chicago. I am an "expert" in mobile and embedded device security.

I think it would be helpful to know what you actually *want* to do for your daily job? IT is a nebulous term and that list of certs seems all over the map in terms of coverage. Getting to the bottom of that answer will help guide you to the right environments to focus energy on.

The unfortunate landscape out there is that there are a lot of really terrible places to work for in the field and hiring is really fucking broken across the spectrum. I've done it in places I work at, and also for lots of other third party companies that are clients, and it's grim out there, even in the "best" companies to work for. Have a firm understanding of your goals and where you want to be eventually. Look for companies that give you a path to grow and specialize as opposed to being a "jack of all trades." The latter can be helpful to expose yourself to lots of different things if you're unsure really what you'd like to do ultimately yet, but they are usually a dead-end in terms of progression and money earning potential.

Degrees and certs in my field aren't really even necessary if you can do the work, and location is becoming less and less of a thing. I've personally seen a huge paradigm shift in companies that have always insisted that you work in a particular city/place. Companies in silicon valley that required physical presence historically are now doing remote positions. Funny how a silver lining of a global pandemic is that all these arbitrary restrictions in different areas are rapidly fading away. Not all jobs can be done remotely of course, but I would be looking for that right now personally over anything else.

I'd suggest looking at job postings at companies you think you'd like to work for and try to see the skillsets they expect for the job postings. That said, as I mentioned hiring is very stupid and broken, so grain of salt for "you must have X experience" requirements. Those are almost always bullshit/ignored for a candidate that does well and knows how to do whatever that particular company is looking for, so always try no matter what to apply, it costs nothing and you'd be surprised how quickly those arbitrary things can go away. Getting a look at the job listings will at least give you some insight into the day to day expectations of the job. Try to compare these and see what clicks for you. It's ok that this will likely change the more you work in the field. Talk to people who are doing the job you're interested in. Twitter is a great resource for finding and interacting with people. I get DMs all the time from people looking to get into security or looking for jobs.

I'm also happy to chat one on one if you'd like. Usually in these cases I'd say meet me for coffee in the city somewhere, but since that's not going to happen anytime soon shoot me a DM if you have any questions or are looking for some advice.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Thanks for the info! Location is, unfortunately, not a choice at the moment. It's all divorce/custody related. Kids are priority number one. So, the western suburbs of Chicago are where I'll be searching. I hate cities as well. I have no desire to work there. I'm absolutely one to seek out the more experienced employees around me and rely on them for furthering knowledge. I have upward mobility and great references available to me in my current job, but I just can't be in the restaurant industry anymore. I have to get out. IT will allow me more opportunities as it is.

Fair enough. One angle you might be able to leverage, apply to a college/uni. You're 'in the system' as it were, and can work the angle that you feel comfortable in education environments, are accustomed to working with faculty, understand the needs of staff, etc etc. That kind of thing goes a long way. You can be taught the technical side, the biggest questions I had when shifting from military work to edu work were basically 'can you handle working in this environment' not 'do you know how to do the needful with networking and servers and shit'.

Sorry you're locked into city life for the moment, know that getting some exp in IT goes a LONG way toward getting you out of that though. There's a lot of really interesting opportunities that can pop out of IT work in places you cannot imagine.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Fair enough. One angle you might be able to leverage, apply to a college/uni. You're 'in the system' as it were, and can work the angle that you feel comfortable in education environments, are accustomed to working with faculty, understand the needs of staff, etc etc. That kind of thing goes a long way. You can be taught the technical side, the biggest questions I had when shifting from military work to edu work were basically 'can you handle working in this environment' not 'do you know how to do the needful with networking and servers and shit'.

Sorry you're locked into city life for the moment, know that getting some exp in IT goes a LONG way toward getting you out of that though. There's a lot of really interesting opportunities that can pop out of IT work in places you cannot imagine.

Good to know. I'll be moving out West in a few years and once my kids have graduated, I plan on getting a place more remote and hope to find a reliable remote position.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Good to know. I'll be moving out West in a few years and once my kids have graduated, I plan on getting a place more remote and hope to find a reliable remote position.

Probably easier now than any other time, so a good idea. A note, when you do go to move to a new place, assuming you intend to move once you find a job... be sure to put in as many places as possible that you are moving to the area you are applying to. Cannot tell you how many people were genuinely confused why I'd move from the south to the northeast (once I got into a real conversation), and I'm sure I got passed over for a few jobs because of aforementioned confusion. Hell, lie about your city/state if you need to.

 

[Proprioceptive]

1) It's possible, yes

2) Expect a lower salary if you have no in-field work experience coming out of school. Certs will only impress HR/hiring departments who have a hardcoded list of stuff to check a box on for working there. I put very little value in certifications personally, as I feel like most of them don't teach you that much and are a money making scam for whoever provides them. I've hired, managed, and interviewed countless people for work in information security and eng/ops teams on the UNIX systems side for both massive and tiny companies.

3) Sorry, no experience with that institution

For context, I work in computer security/vulnerability research and live and work in Chicago. I am an "expert" in mobile and embedded device security.

I think it would be helpful to know what you actually *want* to do for your daily job? IT is a nebulous term and that list of certs seems all over the map in terms of coverage. Getting to the bottom of that answer will help guide you to the right environments to focus energy on.

The unfortunate landscape out there is that there are a lot of really terrible places to work for in the field and hiring is really fucking broken across the spectrum. I've done it in places I work at, and also for lots of other third party companies that are clients, and it's grim out there, even in the "best" companies to work for. Have a firm understanding of your goals and where you want to be eventually. Look for companies that give you a path to grow and specialize as opposed to being a "jack of all trades." The latter can be helpful to expose yourself to lots of different things if you're unsure really what you'd like to do ultimately yet, but they are usually a dead-end in terms of progression and money earning potential.

Degrees and certs in my field aren't really even necessary if you can do the work, and location is becoming less and less of a thing. I've personally seen a huge paradigm shift in companies that have always insisted that you work in a particular city/place. Companies in silicon valley that required physical presence historically are now doing remote positions. Funny how a silver lining of a global pandemic is that all these arbitrary restrictions in different areas are rapidly fading away. Not all jobs can be done remotely of course, but I would be looking for that right now personally over anything else.

I'd suggest looking at job postings at companies you think you'd like to work for and try to see the skillsets they expect for the job postings. That said, as I mentioned hiring is very stupid and broken, so grain of salt for "you must have X experience" requirements. Those are almost always bullshit/ignored for a candidate that does well and knows how to do whatever that particular company is looking for, so always try no matter what to apply, it costs nothing and you'd be surprised how quickly those arbitrary things can go away. Getting a look at the job listings will at least give you some insight into the day to day expectations of the job. Try to compare these and see what clicks for you. It's ok that this will likely change the more you work in the field. Talk to people who are doing the job you're interested in. Twitter is a great resource for finding and interacting with people. I get DMs all the time from people looking to get into security or looking for jobs.

I'm also happy to chat one on one if you'd like. Usually in these cases I'd say meet me for coffee in the city somewhere, but since that's not going to happen anytime soon shoot me a DM if you have any questions or are looking for some advice.

Thanks for all the info! I will definitely send you a DM sometime soon as I'd love to pick your brain for ideas. I realize IT has a pretty broad spectrum of opportunities and I'm sure I'll be able to narrow the direction once I've got some courses under my belt.