Were We Too Hard On The French... Or Not Hard Enough?

[Jimbo]

After reading what they say on French state owned radio and print in their papers, I think we did not go far enough in chastising The Jacques Chirac regime.

This is written by a Frenchman, BTW.

The Dissident Frogman

 

[Jimbo]

I Guess Calling Rumsfeld a "War Monger" is pretty unbiased, right?


Translated with Systran.

Donald Rumsfeld
The scene goes up at September 14, 2001, three days after the attacks of New York and Washington. Like it has the practice of it before each meeting of cabinet, George W Bush asks for the one its close relations of starting a prayer. The Secretary of State to Donald Rumsfeld Defense speaks, to ask God "to grant patience to moderate our thirst for action". A patience which this former fighter pilot of the Navy seems today to have lost, regarded as one of the principal "falcons" of the Bush administration vis-a-vis in Iraq.
"Of all the despots whom I met in my life, Donald is worst" the, known as one of him Henry Kissinger. "It is one goes hold war permanent", continues the former adviser of Kennedy. In love with the order and the force, Rumsfeld is also regarded as the most influential Minister for the history of the United States. "Rummy" unchains passions: its outspokenness and its comes up of iron made the owner of the most powerful Pentagon of it since Robert Mac Namara. Its reports/ratios tended with the military hierarchy and the fact that it is surrounded advisers resulting from civil make squeak the teeth. However, even its detractors more coriaces agree to affirm that the Secretary of State to Defense is a man obnubilated by his work (it did not take only one day off since the attacks of September 11, 2001) and savagely given in his fight against international terrorism. Some see in its muscular attitude a will to shake lazy institutions and military spirits. For others, it is one until with-boutiste which wishes above all, as one says it from now on high among the partisans of the hard line, "to complete the work" in Iraq. In light: to advance to Baghdad and to reverse Saddam Hussein, twelve years after an unfinished war according to him.
Its style, laconic way cow-boy with the platform, fact of the devastations during the press conferences and American opinion. To fustigate "old Europe" which dares to put itself through the road of the Americans, to blame the work of the inspectors or to declare that the unanimity around the war in Iraq is "less important than to make the good decisions". At 70 years, that which was, under Ford, the youngest Minister for the Defense of the history of the United States, knows that it has mainly the ear of president Bush. Even if the "doves" taken along by the Secretary of State Colin Powell also make hear their voice, the foreign policy of the White House seems to be copied more and more on the "Rumsfeld line".

 

[ElFenix]

isn't that guy going to be thrown in jail as soon as hes not president anymore? the two guys france had running for pres last election were worse candidates than the 2 guys running for california governor.

 

[freegeeks]

Jimbo,

I already told you to search for medical assistance because of your obsession about France

 

[Jimbo]

Why don't you simply address the topic geek boy?
Lately, France has been making a stink about a "US Government orchestrated smear campaign" against France. When you see what is printed in the French media, anything said by comparison in The US is VERY tame.

 

[Nemesis77]

Doesn't this thread belong to the Politics-forum?

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Doesn't this thread belong to the Politics-forum?

No, I think this is just random France bashing... totally Off Topic...

 

[freegeeks]

Why don't you simply address the topic geek boy?
Lately, France has been making a stink about a "US Government orchestrated smear campaign" against France. When you see what is printed in the French media, anything said by comparison in The US is VERY tame.

The US media and politicians started the mudthrowing first ("freedom fries", "freedom toast", "old europe", etc...)

and I agree with Nemesis77

take your whining to the Politics Forum

 

[Jimbo]

I think this transcends mere politics and goes straight on to cultural, that is why I posted it here.

The point was not "France Bashing" as our erudite European friends stated, but a more deep seeded notion that only became noticed on this side of the Atlantic within the past year or so.

I also noticed that nobody has questioned the veracity of my facts, yet they prefer to dismiss it as "random France bashing".

So should we then just accept this as fact? And as an aspect of French culture, should we simply accept it without protest?

 

[Nohr]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Doesn't this thread belong to the Politics-forum?

 

[Moonbeam]

The US should appologize to the French. They were totally right. Saddam wasn't a threat. Blix was right. No WMD. Bush and the Bush league lied to the American people the congress and the world.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: JimboThe point was not "France Bashing" as our erudite European friends stated, but a more deep seeded notion that only became noticed on this side of the Atlantic within the past year or so.

The way I see it is that your government opposes France (because they dared to disagree with you), and you, being the patriotic sheep that you are, therefore also hate and bash the French. Good patriots never question their government, they do what their government tells them to do.

BTW, have they found any WMD's yet? You know, the thing you started that war for?

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: JimboThe point was not "France Bashing" as our erudite European friends stated, but a more deep seeded notion that only became noticed on this side of the Atlantic within the past year or so.

The way I see it is that your government opposes France (because they dared to disagree with you), and you, being the patriotic sheep that you are, therefore also hate and bash the French. Good patriots never question their government, they do what their government tells them to do.

BTW, have they found any WMD's yet? You know, the thing you started that war for?

Oh-ou... magical word, WMD's... *goes to put flamesuit on*

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The US should appologize to the French. They were totally right. Saddam wasn't a threat. Blix was right. No WMD. Bush and the Bush league lied to the American people the congress and the world.

The American populace doesn't seem to care too much, though. They're back to rooting for hacks on so-called talent and idol shows and rooting for barbie-doll blonds to get picked to marry some famous millionaire.

 

[Jimbo]

If you would would reference the link that I kindly provided, you will notice that this attitude in France predates any action by The US in Iraq and is certainly well before any Francophile was slighted by the renaming of any Belgian fried potatoes products.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Jimbo
If you would would reference the link that I kindly provided, you will notice that this attitude in France predates any action by The US in Iraq and is certainly well before any Francophile was slighted by the renaming of any Belgian fried potatoes products.

And I still think this thread belongs to the politics-forum. I think that forum in question was created for the sole purpose to move these kinds of threads away from OT.

 

[NYHoustonman]

So I suppose the discovery of mass burial sites and stuff like that mean nothing? Not only are we not sure that Saddam didn't have any WMD, we also know that he was not exactly the friendliest person to have in power.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
So I suppose the discovery of mass burial sites and stuff like that mean nothing? Not only are we not sure that Saddam didn't have any WMD, we also know that he was not exactly the friendliest person to have in power.

Saddam was wicked man who killed citizens of Iraq. Has anyone claimed otherwise? But that was not the reason USA and UK started the war. The reason was WMD's. Remember how Powell told everyone how US is 100% sure that Iraq has WMD's? Only after it started to seem that no WMD's are to be found, they started to say that "WMD's? no, this war was about liberating the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator!".

Oh how few weeks can change things....

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The US should appologize to the French. They were totally right. Saddam wasn't a threat. Blix was right. No WMD. Bush and the Bush league lied to the American people the congress and the world.

Hey Moonie
Why can't you just accept that Gore lost fair and square? Even with his pathetic attempts at trying to cheat his way into the presidency.

Jimbo: Agreed.

 

[Jimbo]

Nemesis77: If you find this post so offensive, I suggest that you print it out and stick it up your butt.

I'm not working the political angle on this one. But I ask the question: What's up with the French?
Apparently they have been this way for a while. This predates Iraq by quite a bit, so GWB was not the nucleus of their thought process.

That being said, I once again pose the question: why?

 

[NYHoustonman]

Whether or not WMD are found, I feel this war was justified, and I feel that the French should have no say in any matters of war. They essentially could have been considered allies of the Germans in WWII (appeasement). If they had just stood up to the Germans, WWII would not have been as big a problem as it was. Quite a few times in history, they have just plain backed down from confrontations, so I guess it was to be expected here, but I find it insulting, the things they have done, even when we saved their asses in WWII (and, as far as my history teacher tells me, even AFTER the war they and other European nations didn't thank us, but rather blamed us for not coming sooner). They are ungrateful.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Whether or not WMD are found, I feel this war was justified, and I feel that the French should have no say in any matters of war. They essentially could have been considered allies of the Germans in WWII (appeasement). If they had just stood up to the Germans, WWII would not have been as big a problem as it was. Quite a few times in history, they have just plain backed down from confrontations, so I guess it was to be expected here, but I find it insulting, the things they have done, even when we saved their asses in WWII (and, as far as my history teacher tells me, even AFTER the war they and other European nations didn't thank us, but rather blamed us for not coming sooner). They are ungrateful.

It's mainly because they're ashamed at how inadequate of a country they are. Of course that's just my belief.

 

[HappyCracker]

If you want to go further back in time, say around 1776 when they saved the fledgling Continental Army from failure against the British, the French were there. A few years later when the French were in a war and asked the US to help out, the US said that it didn't want to get involved. Just pointing it out, I could care less either way, but freedom fries are stupid.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Whether or not WMD are found, I feel this war was justified, and I feel that the French should have no say in any matters of war. They essentially could have been considered allies of the Germans in WWII (appeasement).

And that would include rest of the word as well, not just the French. And besides, before the war was justified because Iraq had WMD's. Now that it seems that there are njo WMD's, you just shift that justification elsewhere.

"No WMD's huh? Ummmmm.... Well, Saddam was evil, so the war was a good thing. yes that's it. The WMD's were a secondary issue, no matter what Powell and Rumsfeld said a bit earlier"

If they had just stood up to the Germans, WWII would not have been as big a problem as it was.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Why didn't the British do anything?

Quite a few times in history, they have just plain backed down from confrontations

Fighting is not a be all end all means to an end. And they have fought when they have had to.

but I find it insulting, the things they have done, even when we saved their asses in WWII (and, as far as my history teacher tells me, even AFTER the war they and other European nations didn't thank us, but rather blamed us for not coming sooner). They are ungrateful.

WW2 happened over 60 years ago, how long are you going to keep on saying "You know, we helped them in WW2, therefore they must to whatever we tell them to do untill the end of time". Hell, the French helped your in your independence-war, why don't you apply your own logic there and say "Fench helped us long time ago, therefore we must do whatever they tell us to do"?

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Whether or not WMD are found, I feel this war was justified, and I feel that the French should have no say in any matters of war. They essentially could have been considered allies of the Germans in WWII (appeasement). If they had just stood up to the Germans, WWII would not have been as big a problem as it was. Quite a few times in history, they have just plain backed down from confrontations, so I guess it was to be expected here, but I find it insulting, the things they have done, even when we saved their asses in WWII (and, as far as my history teacher tells me, even AFTER the war they and other European nations didn't thank us, but rather blamed us for not coming sooner). They are ungrateful.

It's mainly because they're ashamed at how inadequate of a country they are. Of course that's just my belief.

I bet you also think that 9/11 took place because "the terrorist are jealous of our freedoms!"