"We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers," said Neil Newhous

[Bowfinger]

Obama knew it was going to close and still promised to keep it open anyways. Whatever it taked to get the votes.

Man, you guys need to learn to start thinking for yourselves and checking your facts instead of eagerly guzzling whatever the RNC propaganda mill wants to shoot down your throats. Obama gave that speech on February 13, 2008. GM announced it was shutting down production on June 3, 2008. Since dates and math and facts and such seem to be a challenge for your preferred "news" sources, let me help you out. February is BEFORE June. Obama had no idea GM would close the plant when he made that speech.

In short, you guys have been played once again.

 

[monovillage]

Man, you guys need to learn to start thinking for yourselves and checking your facts instead of eagerly guzzling whatever the RNC propaganda mill wants to shoot down your throats. Obama gave that speech on February 13, 2008. GM announced it was shutting down production on June 3, 2008. Since dates and math and facts seem to be a challenge for your preferred "news" sources, let me help you out. February is BEFORE June. Obama had no idea GM would close the plant when he made that speech.

In short, you guys have been played once again.

It hadn't been shut down, it was still operating. I'm sorry you don't like the fact it was still operating, but it's a fact.

 

[Bowfinger]

It hadn't been shut down, it was still operating. I'm sorry you don't like the fact it was still operating, but it's a fact.

Lulz. You are truly pathetic, the queen of dishonest partisan hacks. Dismissed.

 

[Matt1970]

In short, you guys have been played once again.

Ya, we got played alright, by another Obama Lie.

Man, you guys need to learn to start thinking for yourselves and checking your facts instead of eagerly guzzling whatever the RNC propaganda mill wants to shoot down your throats.

I tried to check the facts with Politifact but we are finding out just how full of shit they really are.
And he sure makes it sound like he knew it was gonna close.

I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday,

Either way, the bigger picture here is Obama promised to keep it open, he failed to deliver. Ryan makes light of the promise and gets called a liar.

 

[Bowfinger]

Ya, we got played alright, by another Obama Lie.




I tried to check the facts with Politifact but we are finding out just how full of shit they really are.

In other words, you lack the integrity and character to admit you were wrong. No doubt why you're such a faithful RNC apologist. Oh well, since you're here anyway, dance for me little puppet. Entertain me. There's no reason you have to be completely useless.

 

[Matt1970]

In other words, you lack the integrity and character to admit you were wrong. No doubt why you're such a faithful RNC apologist. Oh well, since you're here anyway, dance for me little puppet. Entertain me. There's no reason you have to be completely useless.

I didn't lie, I didn't promise to keep the factory open, that was Obama.

 

[blankslate]

Here's some facts, but of course you'll ignore them. http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/3.../?preview=true

Now that's some heavy spin right there.

I hardly see this as spin.

Yeah it looks like that site you posted is pretty much a spin heavy version of

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...arack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/

like Fox is a spin heavy version of cable news.

It's funny how your link spun

“I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

into this

In fact, that had been known since at least February 2008, when Obama came to Janesville to speak, and specifically addressed the plant closure in his remarks, delivered at the plant itself — and promised to keep it and other plants like it open “for the next hundred years”

If it was a promise... then he would have said something like

I promise that if our government is here to support you... we this plant will stay open for the next hundred years. That's a promise[/b]

I believe != I promise

But I guess some people have no problem ignoring that fact.

I'll take the facts but ignore the spin...

 

[monovillage]

Yeah it looks like that site you posted is pretty much a spin heavy version of

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...arack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/

like Fox is a spin heavy version of cable news.
It's funny how your link spun into this
If it was a promise... then he would have said something likeI'll take the facts but ignore the spin...

Thanks for showing us again that politicfact is just another partisan hack site and for letting us prove it. In this case the facts have a conservative bias and the Democrats aren't entitled to making up their own facts.

 

[Bowfinger]

Obama knew it was going to close ...

Lie.

I didn't lie,

Another lie.

I didn't promise to keep the factory open,

One out of four's not too bad. Oh wait, it's actually pathetic.

that was Obama.

Another lie (of omission). What he actually said was:

"I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."
​

Given that GM announced it was shutting down production well after Obama's speech and well before Obama took office, his "if" was not met. You. Were. Wrong.

A person with integrity and ethical character would have acknowledged his error immediately once I pointed it out. A simple, "I stand corrected." would have put an end to this entire chain. You could not do that, however, doubling down and turning your error into an outright lie. While that is sadly not surprising, it is certainly shameful.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Lie.


Another lie.

One out of four's not too bad. Oh wait, it's actually pathetic.


Another lie (of omission). What he actually said was:

"I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."
​

Given that GM announced it was shutting down production well after Obama's speech and well before Obama took office, his "if" was not met. You. Were. Wrong.

A person with integrity and ethical character would have acknowledged his error immediately once I pointed it out. A simple, "I stand corrected." would have put an end to this entire chain. You could not do that, however, doubling down and turning your error into an outright lie. While that is sadly not surprising, it is certainly shameful.

I think this guy may not be all there in the head. Perhaps he has a learning disability of some sort or suffers from mental retardation.

 

[Matt1970]

What he actually said was:

"I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."
​

.

The Government WAS there to support them and the plant infact DID close.

 

[Bowfinger]

I think this guy may not be all there in the head. Perhaps he has a learning disability of some sort or suffers from mental retardation.

Many people have mentioned that possibility in response to many of his previous posts. I'm not sure if he's just absurdly partisan, or if he truly is notably slow.

 

[Bowfinger]

The Government WAS there to support them and the plant infact DID close.

Given that GM announced it was shutting down production well after Obama's speech and well before Obama took office, his "if" was not met. You. Were. Wrong.

 

[Matt1970]

Many people have mentioned that possibility in response to many of his previous posts. I'm not sure if he's just absurdly partisan, or if he truly is notably slow.

That is just your typical response after being proven wrong numerous times. Or you just add me to your ignore list.

 

[Matt1970]

Given that GM announced it was shutting down production well after Obama's speech and well before Obama took office, his "if" was not met. You. Were. Wrong.

Obama basically owned GM. He could have kept the plant going. There were still people working there when he took office.

 

[shortylickens]

Well, I wasnt planning to vote for him anyway, but JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! Wouldnt it be easier to drop out than dig your own grave?

 

[Jhhnn]

Given that GM announced it was shutting down production well after Obama's speech and well before Obama took office, his "if" was not met. You. Were. Wrong.

Well, yeh, but Repubs' beliefs aren't dictated by facts, which is why candidates like Romney sucker 'em every time.

I'm confident that Repub operatives really get a kick out of it when their flock falls for the same whoppers, over & over again. They'll believe anything, if it comes from the right sources, and if it fits with the lies they already believe.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Obama basically owned GM. He could have kept the plant going. There were still people working there when he took office.

That's not the issue here.

The issue here is you are claiming Obama PROMISED that he would EXPLICITLY keep this plant open if he became President. You have not proven this to be true.

 

[Bowfinger]

Well, yeh, but Repubs' beliefs aren't dictated by facts, which is why candidates like Romney sucker 'em every time.

I'm confident that Repub operatives really get a kick out of it when their flock falls for the same whoppers, over & over again. They'll believe anything, if it comes from the right sources, and if it fits with the lies they already believe.

Indeed. I can easily visualize it: Monday morning, smoke-filled room, RNC propaganda squad planning the talking points for the week, daring each other to come up with anything so preposterous that their faithful won't embrace it ... and coming up dry week after week, month after month, year after year. They are truly disconnected from any semblance of truth or integrity.

 

[Matt1970]

That's not the issue here.

The issue here is you are claiming Obama PROMISED that he would EXPLICITLY keep this plant open if he became President. You have not proven this to be true.

Maybe you need to read it really slow, and take in each word.
Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

 

[Bowfinger]

That's not the issue here.

The issue here is you are claiming Obama PROMISED that he would EXPLICITLY keep this plant open if he became President. You have not proven this to be true.

There is also the outright lie, where Matt claimed Obama knew four months in advance GM was going to shut down the plant. Completely false, but he will not admit it.

 

[blankslate]

Thanks for showing us again that politicfact is just another partisan hack site and for letting us prove it. In this case the facts have a liberal bias and the Republicants aren't entitled to making up their own facts.

Wow funny how your site interprets someone's words to mean more than what they have actually said like so

“I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

into this

In fact, that had been known since at least February 2008, when Obama came to Janesville to speak, and specifically addressed the plant closure in his remarks, delivered at the plant itself — and promised to keep it and other plants like it open “for the next hundred years”

If it was a promise... then he would have said something like

I promise that if our government is here to support you... we this plant will stay open for the next hundred years. That's a promise

And you call politifact.com a hack site.

what utter bullshit.

It's like me taking your above post and using selective editing

Thanks for showing us again that politicfact is just another partisan hack site and for letting us prove it. In this case the facts have a liberal bias and the Republicants aren't entitled to making up their own facts.

Any time you criticize a website it must be doing at least some things right.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Maybe you need to read it really slow, and take in each word.
Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

Again this is not Obama promising to keep the plant open.

Let's try an example:

Let's say you and I are talking and I say the following to you:

"I PROMISE to give you $5 tomorrow"

If I don't give you that $5, you are absolutely right to call me a liar and say I broke my promise to you.

Now let's say I say the following:

"I believe if the weather is good you will get $5 tomorrow"

If the weather is great and you don't get that $5 are you in the right to call me a liar? Did I break a promise to you? No. Because I never promised you anything. I merely stated an opinion of what I thought might happen. It was not a direct promise that I would make it happen.

This is why you are wrong. You're trying to argue the latter statement and twist it in a way that no court of law would accept. This is why NOBODY in the thread agrees with you. If you were so right and so spot on you'd think at least one person would stand up and agree with you. But nobody has, because you're wrong.

 

[Matt1970]

Again this is not Obama promising to keep the plant open.

Let's try an example:

Let's say you and I are talking and I say the following to you:

"I PROMISE to give you $5 tomorrow"

If I don't give you that $5, you are absolutely right to call me a liar and say I broke my promise to you.

Now let's say I say the following:

"I believe if the weather is good you will get $5 tomorrow"

If the weather is great and you don't get that $5 are you in the right to call me a liar? Did I break a promise to you? No. Because I never promised you anything. I merely stated an opinion of what I thought might happen. It was not a direct promise that I would make it happen.

This is why you are wrong. You're trying to argue the latter statement and twist it in a way that no court of law would accept. This is why NOBODY in the thread agrees with you. If you were so right and so spot on you'd think at least one person would stand up and agree with you. But nobody has, because you're wrong.

He had to use the word "Promise"? What are you, 5 years old?

Deny deny deny........

 

[feralkid]

It hadn't been shut down, it was still operating. I'm sorry you don't like the fact it was still operating, but it's a fact.

Woah, daddy!