"We're an Equal Opportunity employer"

[91TTZ]

I've noticed that on Monster and many other job sites, when you go to apply for a job, they proudly state that they're an equal opportunity employer and your race or gender don't influence hiring decisions. Yet when you go to apply, they want to know your race/gender.

You'd think that if they truly don't discriminate, they wouldn't even need to know what race/gender you are, and that your abilities are all that matters.

However, my girlfriend used to work for an HR agency, and she tells me that in reality, your race/gender does matter. She said that the companies try to maintain a certain percentage of minorities/women, and that when a new position comes available, who they hire depends on the rest of the workforce- if it's all white men, they need to hire more women/minorities. In other words, if you're a white guy applying for that job, your race/gender most likely will decrease your chances of getting hired, since you'd only make the diversity percentages worse. But isn't that discriminating based on your race/gender?

 

[eyecandy86]

statistics?

Edit: Some companies do try to maintain certain precentages, but that is discrimination.

Some compaines want to know for statistical purposes.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I've noticed that on Monster and many other job sites, when you go to apply for a job, they proudly state that they're an equal opportunity employer that doesn't discriminate based on race or gender. Yet when you go to apply, they want to know your race/gender.

You'd think that if they truly don't discriminate, they wouldn't even need to know what race/gender you are, and that your abilities are all that matters.

However, my girlfriend used to work for an HR agency, and she tells me that in reality, your race/gender does matter. She said that the companies try to maintain a certain percentage of minorities/women, and that when a new position comes available, who they hire depends on the rest of the workforce- if it's all white men, they need to hire more women/minorities. In other words, if you're a white guy applying for that job, your race/gender most likely will decrease your chances of getting hired, since you'd only make the diversity percentages worse. But isn't that discriminating based on your race/gender?

Welcome to life. It sucks, get a helmet.

- M4H

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Welcome to life. It sucks, get a helmet.

- M4H

lol...so true

 

[Baked]

It's all about meeting the quota. Yes, we have minorities working in our company see? Gays and lesbians too. Unfortunately, we've met the quota, but it was nice talking to you. kthxbye.

 

[kinev]

Yes it is.

 

[KarenMarie]

afirmative action.

that is it. they are an equal opportunity employeer who do not look at gender/race... but... if they dont tow the afirmative action line... big brother government will tell them they are not equal enough.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: eyecandy86
statistics?

You'd think if they just needed it for statistics, you'd fill out that information after you're already hired.

I think they use it to screen people before they're hired, since hiring you could make their diversity statistics worse/better (depending on your race/gender).

 

[Scarpozzi]

I'm surprised they don't ask if you're Canadian or not. I think there are too many of those working around here....especially in the southern US.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
afirmative action.

that is it. they are an equal opportunity employeer who do not look at gender/race... but... if they dont tow the afirmative action line... big brother government will tell them they are not equal enough.

That brings up another question: How can they claim to be both an Equal Opportunity AND an Affirmative Action employer? The two terms are mutually exclusive.

On one hand, they don't take race into account when they hire you, yet on the other hand they do take race/gender into account and weigh that in their hiring decisions.

 

[tm37]

Welcome to real life

 

[eyecandy86]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: eyecandy86
statistics?

You'd think if they just needed it for statistics, you'd fill out that information after you're already hired.

I think they use it to screen people before they're hired, since hiring you could make their diversity statistics worse/better (depending on your race/gender).

Yeah, they do screen you. Not all companies do, but the vast majority will try to keep those percentages pretty even no matter what they have to do.

 

[DT4K]

Of course it matters. Even without official quotas, many companies go out of their way be "diverse", which means if they don't have enough minorities, they will absolutely give preference to minorities when hiring. Yes, it's discrimination, and yes, it's standard practice.

I was recently sent to a college to do interviews for an internship with our company. Our HR manager told us we needed to choose a "diverse" candidate. I was very bothered by this.

 

[NathanBWF]

Don't even get me started about Equal Opportunity employment...

What they say it is and what it is in reality are two very different things (at least in Saskatchewan, Canada).

The bottom line is the HR department has a race quota they need to fill to meet their PR ratings, thus applicants qualifications and experiences are often tossed out the window.

 

[CPA]

It's called CYA for the EEOC.

EEOC drives this and most companies keep these stats to show that they are interviewing the "right" percentage of minorities.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: eyecandy86


Yeah, they do screen you. Not all companies do, but the vast majority will try to keep those percentages pretty even no matter what they have to do.

I think you're right about that. That does break the rules, though, and that's not Equal Opportunity at all (How could you have an equal opportunity to work there if your race precludes you from getting that position?)

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
afirmative action.

that is it. they are an equal opportunity employeer who do not look at gender/race... but... if they dont tow the afirmative action line... big brother government will tell them they are not equal enough.

That brings up another question: How can they claim to be both an Equal Opportunity AND an Affirmative Action employer? The two terms are mutually exclusive.

On one hand, they don't take race into account when they hire you, yet on the other hand they do take race/gender into account and weigh that in their hiring decisions.

Absolutely correct.
It is ridiculous that they even make this claim.

 

[Yossarian451]

This is also true especially of those with government contracts because they are required to have the racial makeup of the company equal to the percentages of the feeder pool. But here is the good part of it all, you can be any "race" you want to be, if it bothers you that much check any of the minority boxes you want. By law they cannot question any of you statements in respect to your claims of race or ethnicity. I know in my case since I am native american, but do show mostly a white appearance that I just put it and if they are jackasses about it I will get in because they need a minority.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

However, my girlfriend used to work for an HR agency, and she tells me that in reality, your race/gender does matter. She said that the companies try to maintain a certain percentage of minorities/women, and that when a new position comes available, who they hire depends on the rest of the workforce- if it's all white men, they need to hire more women/minorities. In other words, if you're a white guy applying for that job, your race/gender most likely will decrease your chances of getting hired, since you'd only make the diversity percentages worse. But isn't that discriminating based on your race/gender?

Your gf must not be very well versed in HRM practices if she doesn't understand what 'equal opportunity' means or how it's implemented. EO doesn't mean all applicants are rated equally, but that everybody that applies, has an equal opportunity into the job. So for instance, if 2/10 males get hired... but only 1/10 women do... the hiring obviously isn't equal. So they may lower the standard to allow women to be hire to make it more 'fair' for women.

Is it 'fair' for you though? In your eyes, probably not... but you don't see or experience the discriminations that people who are in the visible minority may actually endure. Some people WILL actually not hire women just because they're women... or blacks just because they're black. Or the tests they write, is gender bias towards men... or has context that an asian male might not be familiar with.

In Canada, Equal Opportunity is not called Equal Opportunity... for the very reason it confuses people like you into thinking all applicants are treated equally. It's called Employment Equity... which means they're trying to hire a workforce that reflects society.

 

[kinev]

Remember, all people are created equal......but some are just more equal than others.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Welcome to life. It sucks, get a helmet.

- M4H

lol...so true

QFT

 

[91TTZ]

I'm sure some discrimination does take place. But that's no reason to institute a policy to discriminate against another race to "make up for" the first group being discriminated against. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not the employer that's disciminating against certain candidates, why should I have to pay for their actions?

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Looney

Your gf must not be very well versed in HRM practices if she doesn't understand what 'equal opportunity' means or how it's implemented. EO doesn't mean all applicants are rated equally, but that everybody that applies, has an equal opportunity into the job. So for instance, if 2/10 males get hired... but only 1/10 women do... the hiring obviously isn't equal. So they may lower the standard to allow women to be hire to make it more 'fair' for women.

Is it 'fair' for you though? In your eyes, probably not... but you don't see or experience the discriminations that people who are in the visible minority may actually endure. Some people WILL actually not hire women just because they're women... or blacks just because they're black. Or the tests they write, is gender bias towards men... or has context that an asian male might not be familiar with.

In Canada, Equal Opportunity is not called Equal Opportunity... for the very reason it confuses people like you into thinking all applicants are treated equally. It's called Employment Equity... which means they're trying to hire a workforce that reflects society.

If 2/10 men and only 1/10 women get hired because they are the best person for the job... then doing anything differently is, in and of itself, unfair and discriminary. If 7/10 whites are hired because they are better qualified for the job... then hiring anyone else because of race/gender etc... is not only wrong, but it is discrimination.

Not that things will ever change... but it is still flawed logic to hire less qualified ppl just because they are a certain color/gender and call it making things fair.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I'm sure some discrimination does take place. But that's no reason to institute a policy to discriminate against another race to "make up for" the first group being discriminated against. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not the employer that's disciminating against certain candidates, why should I have to pay for their actions?

mainly because people/society/government as a whole are stupid and think this is a good solution.

common sense is not required to run a business

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I'm sure some discrimination does take place. But that's no reason to institute a policy to discriminate against another race to "make up for" the first group being discriminated against. Two wrongs don't make a right.

But you're not discriminating against the 'majority'... you're just helping the minority. For instance, if there was a test that required somebody to walk 2 miles in 20 mins... but they make the test a little easier for somebody with a limp to walk the 2 miles in 25 mins, are the others being discriminated?

Just because you use a witty saying like 'two wrongs don't make a right', doesn't mean you're right. What would be your solution in making things fair for everybody? That we should fire all those HR that are discriminating against visible minority? How are we to evaluate people who are discriminating against visible minorities? By measuring the results of their hiring? That if they're hiring too many white males, then obviously they're discriminating? How do you think the HRs will behave if they're going to be monitored like this? Probably by lowering standards for others so they can get in as well....

And not all discrimination are so obvious. For example, if an HR goes to their employees, and ask their employees to recommend people for hiring... but the workforce is already all white males, chances are, the people they're going to be recommending would be all white males as well. You might not have a problem with that... but a company of 200 with nothing but white males would seem a little odd and out of sync with the rest of society.