Well, they banned smoking in all pubs & clubs at the start of this month in WA...

[compuwiz1]

heh, if I was wrong about Washington state, it's because I used to live there, when smoking was still legal in bars. I just figured the time had come, like everywhere else.

 

[Fritzo]

If you eat french fries, it doesn't clog my arteries.
If you drink a beer, it doesn't get me drunk.
If you smoke, it gives ME lung disease :|

Good for them.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Sweet, so the moral authoritarians have slugged their iron fists into the guts of private property owners in Australia as well?

I can't wait until they start regulating what we can do in our own houses!

Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

 

[HomeAppraiser]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: eos

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Is WA some secret code for Australia that I haven't heard before?

Take a look at U.S. postal codes. WA is for Washington.

But dug lives in Aussieland, not Washington.

Porpoise Spit?

 

[PHiuR]

hey...how about letting the bar owners decide if they want to be a smoking bar or a non-smoking bar!?

 

[Pciber]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
heh, if I was wrong about Washington state, it's because I used to live there, when smoking was still legal in bars. I just figured the time had come, like everywhere else.

It has come, but it was around 6 months ago.. i doubt dug777 is just complaining about it now for washington state.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: Koing
:thumbsup:

I'd prefer it like that.

Koing

:thumbsup:

 

[kalster]

hah, this thread makes me LOL.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
heh, if I was wrong about Washington state, it's because I used to live there, when smoking was still legal in bars. I just figured the time had come, like everywhere else.

Yes, Washington state just banned smoking in public. That's why I assumed he was talking about us.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: eos
Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

So the government wastefully spends money through Medicare. Your solution is more government? Because politicans have decided that it's the government's job to take care of us if something bad happens, it's now their job to make sure that we can't participate in certain activities because we might hurt ourselves. If you want to live in a fascist state, you are supporting all the right moves. Personal choices FTL.

Do you understand that pubs and clubs (as the OP stated) are private businesses. Yes, private. They are peices of property owned by somebody, yet there is now a law against smoking on that property. If I were a business owner, it would piss me off if I wasn't aloud to let people smoke on MY (yes MY) property. More fascism.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: PHiuR
hey...how about letting the bar owners decide if they want to be a smoking bar or a non-smoking bar!?

No no, we wouldn't want to advocate property rights' at all. That would be sick and immoral.

 

[jdobratz]

Look at the left side of the image.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
If you eat french fries, it doesn't clog my arteries.
If you drink a beer, it doesn't get me drunk.
If you smoke, it gives ME lung disease :|

Good for them.

You have lung disease?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Happened in Kahleeforneeya over 10 years ago. Everyone cried how it was gonna hurt their businesses...Bars and clubs are still packed, people just have to go outside to smoke. Only a problem in cold and/or wet weather.

People bitch. Then they adapt.

yep.

The major issue in WA is the reservations. Any club thats near a reservation goes out of business. You can still smoke in casinos and bars on the reservations and who wouldnt rather do that than freeze outside for a smoke.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eos

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Sweet, so the moral authoritarians have slugged their iron fists into the guts of private property owners in Australia as well?

I can't wait until they start regulating what we can do in our own houses!

Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

Wrong + wrong != right

You accuse him of use a fallacious argument and yours is even worse.
If paying for other people's medicare is as evil as you imply, then the solution is to get rid of that payment that you think is such a burden, not burden other people with your morals.
Believe it or not, people do have brains and the ability to make choices, and they even have the ability to make a correct choice -- even in the absence of a law. I know that probably sounds shocking to you, but it's true.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: eos
Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

So the government wastefully spends money through Medicare. Your solution is more government? Because politicans have decided that it's the government's job to take care of us if something bad happens, it's now their job to make sure that we can't participate in certain activities because we might hurt ourselves. If you want to live in a fascist state, you are supporting all the right moves. Personal choices FTL.

Do you understand that pubs and clubs (as the OP stated) are private businesses. Yes, private. They are peices of property owned by somebody, yet there is now a law against smoking on that property. If I were a business owner, it would piss me off if I wasn't aloud to let people smoke on MY (yes MY) property. More fascism.

One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Edit...I had my post in the midst of a quote...made the entire rant sound like mine...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Work someplace else.

Patronize someplace else.

It's that simple.

 

[Beller0ph1]

Can't wait for them to do this in Memphis, and eventually Chicago. I hate having my clothes smell like stale cigs.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoomerD
One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Work someplace else.

Patronize someplace else.

It's that simple.

Absolutely not. That defies the entire idea of workplace safety. If businesses aren't FORCED to provide a safe work environment then NONE will. We'll be back to 1900 America with people dying left and right. Businesses are ONLY about money, and as such are corrupted entities. They must be brought in line by external force. While I feel for smokers somewhat, the truth is that their actions harm others, and are therefore equivalent to assault or even attempted manslaughter if they do it around other people.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eos

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Sweet, so the moral authoritarians have slugged their iron fists into the guts of private property owners in Australia as well?

I can't wait until they start regulating what we can do in our own houses!

Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

Wrong + wrong != right

You accuse him of use a fallacious argument and yours is even worse.
If paying for other people's medicare is as evil as you imply, then the solution is to get rid of that payment that you think is such a burden, not burden other people with your morals.
Believe it or not, people do have brains and the ability to make choices, and they even have the ability to make a correct choice -- even in the absence of a law. I know that probably sounds shocking to you, but it's true.

I was not accusing him of anything. I was perpetuating the ridiculous slippery slope argument. "If they take this away, then eventually we'll have nothing." Which is bee ess. Completely.

I did not mean to imply paying for other people's Medicare as evil. I would (and do) gladly pay for Medicare for people who BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN are unable to care for themselves. Not wearing a seatbelt, getting tossed from your vehicle and being brain dead does not count. See? I'm down for choice. Assumer! (is that a word?) lol

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoomerD
One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Work someplace else.

Patronize someplace else.

It's that simple.

By this line of thought, ALL workplace safety laws should be done away with. Never mind that fall hazard, or lead poisoning, if you don't like it, go find another job. Like Prince says, that could throw us back into the "dark ages" when people getting killed on the job, was considered just another cost of business.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: eos
Slippery slope, eh?

First they want to make your car have a windshield. Then A ROOF? How dare they. Whoops, gotta have structural metal around you too. Don't forget sunvisors so you can block the evil sun rays. The temerity. The pièce de résistance? Seatbelts. Now you are less likely to be thrown from your car, become a vegetable, thus maxing out your health insurance and making me pay for it through Medicare.

moral authoritarians ftw.

Whiner.

So the government wastefully spends money through Medicare. Your solution is more government? Because politicans have decided that it's the government's job to take care of us if something bad happens, it's now their job to make sure that we can't participate in certain activities because we might hurt ourselves. If you want to live in a fascist state, you are supporting all the right moves. Personal choices FTL.

Do you understand that pubs and clubs (as the OP stated) are private businesses. Yes, private. They are peices of property owned by somebody, yet there is now a law against smoking on that property. If I were a business owner, it would piss me off if I wasn't aloud to let people smoke on MY (yes MY) property. More fascism.

I don't think Medicare is a waste. See my other post.

You are free to participate in any activity you want as long as it doe not affect me. How is this a new concept?

We're a long way from fascism, but you're free to bandy it about like after 2 more laws are passed we'd be there. Doomsayer ftl.

Private yes. Me understand. Business must follow rules. Business must not endanger employees. Business want customer. Business must adapt to changing environment. Business not closing here after law passed 1 January 2006. Me understand. < /Frozen Caveman Lawyer >

And take your flat tax and shove it where the :sun: don't shine. It's a great plan until the people who would pay the most in taxes figure out how to not pay. Because you know they would. Just like now. Then how would we finance our wars? War bonds?

Rosie Riveter = no
Jessica Joint Chiefs = yes

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Fritzo
If you eat french fries, it doesn't clog my arteries.
If you drink a beer, it doesn't get me drunk.
If you smoke, it gives ME lung disease :|

Good for them.

You have lung disease?

Nope, don't hang around smokers/smoking places. However, a former waitress in our neighborhood now has emphysema at only 41 from second hand smoke. If you want to do something to yourself that's unhealthy, that's fine. As soon as what you're doing affects other people's health, it becomes wrong.

An example I like to use is if I liked to have nerve gas spewing off of me, would you want me sitting next to you?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoomerD
One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Work someplace else.

Patronize someplace else.

It's that simple.

By this line of thought, ALL workplace safety laws should be done away with. Never mind that fall hazard, or lead poisoning, if you don't like it, go find another job. Like Prince says, that could throw us back into the "dark ages" when people getting killed on the job, was considered just another cost of business.

Ridiculous. More fallacies. Almost all workplace safety laws protect people from immediate (and often unrecognizable) dangers. Smoking is neither immediate not unrecognizable. Quite the opposite, the effects of short-term exposure to tobacco smoking are quickly reversible, while the dangers of long-term exposure are well known due to education.
You're basically full of sh!t.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BoomerD
One of the big arguments against allowing smoking in private clubs here, is that the patrons are exposing the employees who may not smoke to carcinogens with the 2nd hand smoke. OSHA laws make that illegal. I know there are many who would say that the wait staff or whoever, could always find a different job, but that doesn't make good sense either. It is the employers duty to minimize any potential health hazards to it's employees. Personally, I enjoy going to a restaurant or clubknowing that I don't have to breath tons of smoke from other people smoking, even though I am a smoker myself.
Now, if we could only get a "No perfume" law passed...Some people seem to think that bathing in a gallon of what ever brand of "smell-purty" they bought at Wal-Mart is preferrable to taking a daily bath with soap and water.

Work someplace else.

Patronize someplace else.

It's that simple.

By this line of thought, ALL workplace safety laws should be done away with. Never mind that fall hazard, or lead poisoning, if you don't like it, go find another job. Like Prince says, that could throw us back into the "dark ages" when people getting killed on the job, was considered just another cost of business.

Ridiculous. More fallacies. Almost all workplace safety laws protect people from immediate (and often unrecognizable) dangers. Smoking is neither immediate not unrecognizable. Quite the opposite, the effects of short-term exposure to tobacco smoking are quickly reversible, while the dangers of long-term exposure are well known due to education.
You're basically full of sh!t.

Funny, that last line was basically my reply to you.