Well, there's the start of the ban on ammunition

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Bruno, this has nothing to do with what you are trying to tie it to. Spent casings are sold in two ways; 1. for reloading. 2. for scrap.
All this new guideline says is if the casings are going to be sold as "scrap" it has to be certified it is actually scrap, and not usable for the purpose of reloading. That is the liquidation outlet's policy, and always has been. The only change to the policy is the destruction now has to be witnessed/certified.

Sounds like the government is trying to prevent merchandise with a higher non-scrap value from being sold for scrap prices.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Bruno, this has nothing to do with what you are trying to tie it to. Spent casings are sold in two ways; 1. for reloading. 2. for scrap.
All this new guideline says is if the casings are going to be sold as "scrap" it has to be certified it is actually scrap, and not usable for the purpose of reloading. That is the liquidation outlet's policy, and always has been. The only change to the policy is the destruction now has to be witnessed/certified.

Sounds like the government is trying to prevent merchandise with a higher non-scrap value from being sold for scrap prices.

I think they're trying to prevent usable ammunition casings from being sold in bulk through unwatched channels.

This way, if it goes out as 'scrap', that's what it is.

Seems like overkill, but not really a big deal.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Bruno, this has nothing to do with what you are trying to tie it to. Spent casings are sold in two ways; 1. for reloading. 2. for scrap.
All this new guideline says is if the casings are going to be sold as "scrap" it has to be certified it is actually scrap, and not usable for the purpose of reloading. That is the liquidation outlet's policy, and always has been. The only change to the policy is the destruction now has to be witnessed/certified.

Old policy. This is from govliquidation.

Thank you for your e-mail. The recently implemented mutilation requirement applies to all current and future auctions that contain fired shell casings.

We appreciate your cooperation and understanding in this matter.

Sincerely,

Customer Service Management
Government Liquidation, LLC
DOD Surplus, LLC
15051 N. Kierland Blvd, Ste 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
Ph: 480.367.1300
Fax: 480.367.1450
Email: info@govliquidation.com
Online Help:http://www.govliquidation.com/help/index.html

And from Summit (manufacturer)

Hey all, I am the production manager at Summit Ammunition. Much of our production is using once fired military components.

We buy brass and projos in very large lots, 100,000 pcs at a time. Thousands of pounds at a time.

From what I have gathered today by talking to many folks in the industry is that this affects our supply of these components.

For those who don't believe this, please call me toll free at 1-877-726-4345, and I will gladly work out a deal to buy all of your once fired LC brass. Very large amounts only, please!

Ask for Dan.


Dan McFarland
Production Manager
Summit Ammunition

Yes the old policy is that all ammo is mutilation required if exported. Calls to the DOD and SV departments say it will be a few weeks for them to clarify.

ETA: I should also mention I deal with the DLA and DRMO processes frequently. Not just posting some randoms thoughts or anything with no experience behind it. DRMO is a big enough pain in the ass as it is.

 

[daishi5]

Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading
market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity
condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End
Use Certificates are required for these sales.

I am sorry, but this appears to state that fired brass may still be sold for reloading. Could you explain what I am missing, or perhaps there was a misunderstanding?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: daishi5
I am sorry, but this appears to state that fired brass may still be sold for reloading. Could you explain what I am missing, or perhaps there was a misunderstanding?

Look closer:

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: alchemize
I don't see any connection to Obama here?

Put a little of this on your head and look again...more closely.

Be quiet.

lulz

:laugh:

 

[ericlp]

yeah maybe companies will start charging your ugly asses you know you gun phreaks more and more for ammo. It's a good thing, keeps gun ammo makers in business. Pipe down freaks and bend over....take it like a man. Stop crying about it and pay up. Like most people here he's not banning the sale of ammo.

MO, this is a good thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcVwDw4YLE

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Came down from the DRMS.mil and no "once-fired" brass can be resold. It has to be for scrap and mutilation has to be done in the presence of a DOD inspector. And the price of brass is so low that scrap is kinda useless.

So another area that was making money in the economy and they go and whack it.

Not to mention that a lot of police departments rely on manufacturers who use once-fired brass. Guess they'll have to get the money for new ammo somewhere...

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "

There are very, very few companies that make new brass. ATK, Norma, Starline...Lapua.

There are hundreds of companies that rely on used pieces to produce ammo.

And folks think there is a shortage right now...

You should put off going to the range for a while and sign up for some reading comprehension courses at your local community college.

 

[JEDIYoda]

God you gotta Love this guys name -- BrunoPUTZJones....
To not be able to comprehend the article and then to mis-label the subject.....would qualify for the PUTZ award.

Then to claim and I quote -- ETA: I should also mention I deal with the DLA and DRMO processes frequently. Not just posting some randoms thoughts or anything with no experience behind it. DRMO is a big enough pain in the ass as it is.

Is just laughable at so many levels.

One of the levels being -- Just because you supposedly deal with DLA and DRMO does not mean we cut you slack for lack of reading comprehension!!

 

[fornax]

With the sales (and prices) of guns and ammunition through the roof, I was looking for some cheap stuff to replenish my supplies and prepare better for the coming Armageddon. There are some incredible deals to be had at this sale of the government of Ukraine.

Just what any reasonable man who cares about the survival of his family and the defense of his underground bunker needs: MiG-29 fighters, Su-24 bombers, Mi-26 helicopters, T-80 tanks, UAV's, meteorological stations, anti-aircraft missile systems (from S-75 to S-300), and much, much more.

My personal favorite is a .45 Thompson machine gun Model 1928. These can fetch some serious money if in good condition. A lot of nice handguns too.

 

[Jhhnn]

Gun Phreaks and wingnuts in general obviously can't read, except for what they want to read. From Turin 397389, and his link to the actual document-

"Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading
market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity
condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End
Use Certificates are required for these sales. "

They're just trying to prevent casings from being discounted, sleazed out the backdoor as "Scrap", then reloaded... Uncle deserves fair value for what he sells, just like everybody else...

But, of course, I'm sure that fact will never become realization, won't interfere with the usual raving and foaming at the mouth...

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Good.

I don't believe you could even tell us why you think this is good.

 

[NeoV]

more tin-foil stuff from the NRA crowd...nothing to see here, as usual

 

[Nebor]

Uh... this just means that IF it's getting destroyed, it has to be observed being destroyed. It can still be sold for reloading purposes, it'll just sold at fair market value. A little bit of accountability to keep people from screwing the government so much.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: halik
Errr I thought recycling is a good thing?

If this is some sort of policy intended to stop gun violence, someone needs to be smacked upside the head. Doubling or quadrupling the price of ammo will not deter me from shooting someone - it's not as if doing so is a rational act where the person would budget their finance and decide to postpone the shooting, because ammo is expensive right now.

But in today's economy they'd have bad aim at least.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Came down from the DRMS.mil and no "once-fired" brass can be resold. It has to be for scrap and mutilation has to be done in the presence of a DOD inspector. And the price of brass is so low that scrap is kinda useless.

So another area that was making money in the economy and they go and whack it.

Not to mention that a lot of police departments rely on manufacturers who use once-fired brass. Guess they'll have to get the money for new ammo somewhere...

"Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "

There are very, very few companies that make new brass. ATK, Norma, Starline...Lapua.

There are hundreds of companies that rely on used pieces to produce ammo.

And folks think there is a shortage right now...

it's the screw-machine lobby. i'm thinking these things are made on a high-speed CNC lathe, i.e. a screw machine.

talked to my gun-enthusiast friend last night. he says ammunition is very hard to find. this might explain why.

 

[daishi5]

Ok, it appears the OP was right, this did ban the sale of fired brass unless it was destroyed.

Source = Senator's letter

Good news, the decision has been reconsidered, and the fired brass can be sold again with a waiver just like it was before.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: daishi5
Ok, it appears the OP was right, this did ban the sale of fired brass unless it was destroyed.

Source = Senator's letter

Good news, the decision has been reconsidered, and the fired brass can be sold again with a waiver just like it was before.

I didn't bother to bump it since everyone was so convinced I was in error.

Didn't bother to update with the pulling of all surplus brass from the sales site. Or update with the revised auctions, all requiring mutilation.

DLA response:

????-Original Message????-
From: ******* (HQ DLA) [mailto:******************@dla.mil]
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 5:37 AM
To: ********
Subject: DLA Policy Review

Sir,
The policy you are inquiring about has been reviewed and the cartridges can be sold whole.

The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS), a field activity of the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), is the Department of Defense
(DOD) activity responsible for the disposition of excess and surplus DOD Property.

The primary focus of the DRMS mission is to protect national security by ensuring property is properly identified for reutilization and disposition and not released for public sale when to do so would jeopardize national security.

During the past two years, DRMS revised its processes to further ensure only appropriate items were made available for public sale. To strengthen current controls and to mitigate future security risk, the DOD issued policy that prohibits the sale of military unique items controlled by the Department of State through its Munitions List.

Small arms cartridge cases are identified as a sensitive Munitions List item and were held pending review of the policy relating to the category of items in which cartridge cases were included. Upon review, the Defense Logistics Agency has determined the cartridge cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale.

The DRMS sales contractor has been notified of this decision and has begun the process of reoffering the cases that have been held pending completion of the policy review. As was previously required, buyers who purchase cartridge cases from the government must be approved to do so under Trade Security Controls.

Sincerely,
************
Defense Logistics Agency
Public Affairs Specialist
***********@dla.mil
703-***-**** (phone)
703-***-****(fax)