Well the 6600's and 6700's appear to be a big no show....

[n7]

Originally posted by: Madellga

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Madellga

I took the E6400 road, it is 100 euros less and not worth the difference in performance - like Zebo says, get the cheapest and O/C it.

The whole buying the cheapest & OCing them worked well with A64s since pretty much every A64/Opty maxed out around ~2.8 GHz on air, & most good mobos were able to handily hit a 300 HTT, which meant anyone could get an FX-55/FX-60 for the price of the cheapest A64.

Doesn't work the same way with C2D IMO.

Right now there are like no mobos to choose from, & the low multi on the Allendales coupled with low-ish max FSB on most 965/975 mobos means you can't really do that.

Not saying that 3 GHz isn't impressive, but it's too hit or miss with the E6300/6400 because of the mobo IMO.

I would normally agree, but the E6600 could be a hit or miss also. One can only know by trying.

A BIOS updated made a lot of difference for me. There are some people reporting 400+ on the mobo with some new BETA bios. I guess it can only get better.

My E6400 is running 2 x Prime95 since 4 hours, 3.2GHZ 8 x 400 4-4-4 (2GB OCZ). This is more than 50% O/C. This kind of o/c on standard component was last seen with the Celeron 300A and P3 coppermine 500.

I was not lucky in the last 2 years with o/c on the A64, I had a San Diego 3700 clocked to 3700 and an Opt 170 clocked to 2.5. That was average o/c. And I spent a lot of money on better PSUs, cooling and hq ram.

I used the 100 euros to get a 7950GX2 over a GTX. That brings more for gaming than an E6600 CPU.

I most definitely agree with the last point.
GPU is far more important for newer games than CPU is.

I guess it's entirely true that the E6600 may not do well either, but at least i can get pretty much any decent mobo & not worry too much about teh mobo limiting an OC.

The other main reason for me not being as excited about the E6400/6300 is also the fact that i have had incredibly bad luck with OCing my CPUs, so at least with the E6600, it's going to be an improvement over pretty much any OCed A64/Opty even @ stock, nevermind OCed, whereas the E6400 doesn't really pwn all the OCed A64/Optys unless you get a decent OC out of it.

I'm definitely thinking about one [an E6400] though, but i want a better selection of mobos, since there's pretty much nothing but the DS3/DQ6 & the P5W DH to pick from right now, & only the Asus in Canada for me

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Zebo
You got to be kidding me? so every time you have to reset cmos (all the time when OCing) you have to swap out memory?

Yes. This is because the BIOS default is only to supply 1.8v to the RAM. Many (most) high performance memory needs 2.1V which means the board will fail to POST with a 1.8V setting.

This is but one of the many issues with the DS3, and why I never recommended using it.

Everyone trumps it up as a "value" option. Sure, it is $100 cheaper than say a P5W-DH, but you'll blow that $100 up in smoke with frustration!

Why use 975X when RD600 completely owns 975X at stock and overclocked and it overclocks farther too?

Totally independant memory overclocking in 1fsb incrememnts to ddr1200, set the cpu to 349fsb and the ram to 436fsb if you like, unlike intel.

1T CMD, unlike intel which only give you 2T.

More features to include native PATA and DDR-3 support, unlike intel.

Nope I'm not going with intel overrated and overpriced chipsets. $275 for a mobo with crippled features and strap issues?

Gimme a break. AMD/ATI + Intel for me.
:laugh:

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: bob661

Gee, here's a E6700 in stock. It took me all of 60 seconds to find one.

Text

That's an OEM one. I want a retail box. You know 3 year warranty and all. Heatsink with a fan. Those kind.

So it's a paper launch because the OEM versions are avail. but the retail versions aren't??

 

[450R]

You bought all the other hardware ahead of time and assumed C2D would be in full swing right out of the gate, despite all the warnings of shortages and price gouging. Not to mention we're still two days shy of the release date. And when someone finds one in stock it isn't good enough for you? I blame Intel!

Can someone point me to the announcement that stated retail E6600s would be widely available at reasonable prices on August 5th?

 

[Kwint Sommer]

Originally posted by: 450R
You bought all the other hardware ahead of time and assumed C2D would be in full swing right out of the gate, despite all the warnings of shortages and price gouging. Not to mention we're still two days shy of the release date. And when someone finds one in stock it isn't good enough for you? I blame Intel!

Can someone point me to the announcement that stated retail E6600s would be widely available at reasonable prices on August 5th?

I would hardly call it unreasonable to buy a motherboard and RAM in advance of the CPU. Further, the original release date was the 27th and my complaint about those that are available at the moment is their price. Intel hasn't done as well with this as they could but they are taking steps to prevent gouging. I just wish they would offer a few official anouncements and then stick to them rather than leaving us hanging.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer

Originally posted by: 450R
You bought all the other hardware ahead of time and assumed C2D would be in full swing right out of the gate, despite all the warnings of shortages and price gouging. Not to mention we're still two days shy of the release date. And when someone finds one in stock it isn't good enough for you? I blame Intel!

Can someone point me to the announcement that stated retail E6600s would be widely available at reasonable prices on August 5th?

I would hardly call it unreasonable to buy a motherboard and RAM in advance of the CPU. Further, the original release date was the 27th and my complaint about those that are available at the moment is their price. Intel hasn't done as well with this as they could but they are taking steps to prevent gouging. I just wish they would offer a few official anouncements and then stick to them rather than leaving us hanging.

Release date and launch date are two seperate events.

 

[TankGuys]

My guess is that yea, Newegg and other "big" stores may have some of these on Monday. I will, however, be surprised if they have a LOT of them. Considering the complete lack of them in the distribution channels, I'd be surprised if anyone gets a significant number of these yet. Anything can happen though, so we'll see!

 

[lopri]

Intel is sure to blame. Had they pulled a launch like, say last year's 7800GTX launch, we wouldn't have this chaotic situation where individulas as well as small OEMs/retailers get hurt. Of course they couldn't wait and had to "leak" the preview half a year ago, otherwise by now AMD would have taken over 50% of server market and 99% of retail market. Anand mentioned several times that this type of launch is unprecedented in Intel history also. Think about who benefits from this kind of launch. No one. This is an industry-wide disaster.

Their CEO proudly announced they'll make 1 million of these over next 7 week - and of course people, who are not aware that Intel makes 20+ million chips average for such time period, get false impression of mass-production. Don't forget those 1M chips include Woodcrest and Merom. Oh and don't forget that Dell, and more importantly Apple, get the first treat.

 

[sunzt]

Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: lopri
Intel is sure to blame. Had they pulled a launch like, say last year's 7800GTX launch, we wouldn't have this chaotic situation where individulas as well as small OEMs/retailers get hurt. Of course they couldn't wait and had to "leak" the preview half a year ago, otherwise by now AMD would have taken over 50% of server market and 99% of retail market. Anand mentioned several times that this type of launch is unprecedented in Intel history also. Think about who benefits from this kind of launch. No one. This is an industry-wide disaster.

Their CEO proudly announced they'll make 1 million of these over next 7 week - and of course people, who are not aware that Intel makes 20+ million chips average for such time period, get false impression of mass-production. Don't forget those 1M chips include Woodcrest and Merom. Oh and don't forget that Dell, and more importantly Apple, get the first treat.

What's the choas? It's 2 days before release.

The IDF event is a "leak"?? It's been going on for years.

Gee, the fastest ramp in semi-conductor history and your whining.

The vast majority of the market doesn't want C2D. The vast majority of the market is buying low and medium end systems. What part of market segmentation can't you comprehend?

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

No, it's to prime the channel and get everyone at the starting gate at the same time. That helps minimize price gouging. It's a pro-consumer strategy.

I cancelled my $367 E6600 buy.com order and placed a $339 ClubIT order because of this strategy. Thanks Intel!!

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: lopri
Their CEO proudly announced they'll make 1 million of these over next 7 week - and of course people, who are not aware that Intel makes 20+ million chips average for such time period, get false impression of mass-production. Don't forget those 1M chips include Woodcrest and Merom. Oh and don't forget that Dell, and more importantly Apple, get the first treat.

I'm gonna laugh when we find out Intel did reach 1 million, in record time.

Quit your whining. If you had high end CPUs for sale, are you going to offer the majority to a bunch of geeks, or would you dump them to high volume OEMs? What a tough decision!

 

[eraser2k1nin]

Originally posted by: Henny

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

No, it's to prime the channel and get everyone at the starting gate at the same time. That helps minimize price gouging. It's a pro-consumer strategy.

I cancelled my $367 E6600 buy.com order and placed a $339 ClubIT order because of this strategy. Thanks Intel!!

Buy.com also has it for 339.00

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Henny

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

No, it's to prime the channel and get everyone at the starting gate at the same time. That helps minimize price gouging. It's a pro-consumer strategy.

I cancelled my $367 E6600 buy.com order and placed a $339 ClubIT order because of this strategy. Thanks Intel!!

I just quoted this because I thought this was quite funny.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: Pabster
I'm gonna laugh when we find out Intel did reach 1 million, in record time.

I didn't say that number. Mr. Paul Otellini did. Maybe you can attempt to call him and laugh. If he answers your call, that is.
Text

Originally posted by: Pabster
Quit your whining. If you had high end CPUs for sale, are you going to offer the majority to a bunch of geeks, or would you dump them to high volume OEMs? What a tough decision!

Am I whining? About what?

 

[Jules]

Corsair XMS DDR2 800 works great with my DS3 boots up no problem.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Madellga

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Madellga

I took the E6400 road, it is 100 euros less and not worth the difference in performance - like Zebo says, get the cheapest and O/C it.

The whole buying the cheapest & OCing them worked well with A64s since pretty much every A64/Opty maxed out around ~2.8 GHz on air, & most good mobos were able to handily hit a 300 HTT, which meant anyone could get an FX-55/FX-60 for the price of the cheapest A64.

Doesn't work the same way with C2D IMO.

Right now there are like no mobos to choose from, & the low multi on the Allendales coupled with low-ish max FSB on most 965/975 mobos means you can't really do that.

Not saying that 3 GHz isn't impressive, but it's too hit or miss with the E6300/6400 because of the mobo IMO.

I would normally agree, but the E6600 could be a hit or miss also. One can only know by trying.

A BIOS updated made a lot of difference for me. There are some people reporting 400+ on the mobo with some new BETA bios. I guess it can only get better.

My E6400 is running 2 x Prime95 since 4 hours, 3.2GHZ 8 x 400 4-4-4 (2GB OCZ). This is more than 50% O/C. This kind of o/c on standard component was last seen with the Celeron 300A and P3 coppermine 500.

I was not lucky in the last 2 years with o/c on the A64, I had a San Diego 3700 clocked to 3700 and an Opt 170 clocked to 2.5. That was average o/c. And I spent a lot of money on better PSUs, cooling and hq ram.

I used the 100 euros to get a 7950GX2 over a GTX. That brings more for gaming than an E6600 CPU.

I most definitely agree with the last point.
GPU is far more important for newer games than CPU is.

I guess it's entirely true that the E6600 may not do well either, but at least i can get pretty much any decent mobo & not worry too much about teh mobo limiting an OC.

The other main reason for me not being as excited about the E6400/6300 is also the fact that i have had incredibly bad luck with OCing my CPUs, so at least with the E6600, it's going to be an improvement over pretty much any OCed A64/Opty even @ stock, nevermind OCed, whereas the E6400 doesn't really pwn all the OCed A64/Optys unless you get a decent OC out of it.

I'm definitely thinking about one [an E6400] though, but i want a better selection of mobos, since there's pretty much nothing but the DS3/DQ6 & the P5W DH to pick from right now, & only the Asus in Canada for me

Here are some options for Conroe motherboards:

http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=catalog&catID=1071&ParcatID=2

P965 Derived
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...=MS-7234-010&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...pn=90-MBB4E5-G0UAYZ&manufacture=Others

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...635&vpn=GA-965P-DS3&manufacture=Others

 

[bob661]

LOL!!!! Some of you guys are cracking me up!!! ATI/Nvidia have done the exact same thing that Intel is doing to today but because C2D is such a good CPU, everyone's willing to forgive and even make excuses for Intel. LOL!!!! Some of you guys put the hyp in hypocrite!

 

[Kwint Sommer]

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

I'm sorry but where are you getting detailed knowledge of who Intel is shipping to first? Do you have connections at the top of Intel shipping that you failed to mention? You are making some rather strong statements that you fail to add are pure speculation.
I know for a fact that Intel has previously failed to deliver chips in a timely fashion to Dell despite contracts and frankly it would seem highly unwise to load up places like Dell with these chips while leaving the geek community waiting.
If Dell gets their chips two weeks late Dell is mildly annoyed but last I checked they just signed a big contract with AMD so they've already stuck it too Intel and as such have very little recourse. Those on this and other forums, however, can make spectacular or otterly horrible press about the new CPUs that will haunt them for years.
Intel knows that telling us to wait a few weeks could cost them a fair bit high-end market share which is where this chip is aimed. If Intel has limited early shipments they will send them to places like NewEgg because they know that if they force me to wait an additional month I'll buy a cheap AMD and spend the next 3 years warning people not to purchase their chips and I won't be the only one.

 

[aggressor]

Aug 7th has always been the official launch for me, so Monday will tell all.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: bob661
LOL!!!! Some of you guys are cracking me up!!! ATI/Nvidia have done the exact same thing that Intel is doing to today but because C2D is such a good CPU, everyone's willing to forgive and even make excuses for Intel. LOL!!!! Some of you guys put the hyp in hypocrite!

LOL!!! You crack me up, because you dont know what the hell youre talking about!

 

[decin]

Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

I'm sorry but where are you getting detailed knowledge of who Intel is shipping to first? Do you have connections at the top of Intel shipping that you failed to mention? You are making some rather strong statements that you fail to add are pure speculation.
I know for a fact that Intel has previously failed to deliver chips in a timely fashion to Dell despite contracts and frankly it would seem highly unwise to load up places like Dell with these chips while leaving the geek community waiting.
If Dell gets their chips two weeks late Dell is mildly annoyed but last I checked they just signed a big contract with AMD so they've already stuck it too Intel and as such have very little recourse. Those on this and other forums, however, can make spectacular or otterly horrible press about the new CPUs that will haunt them for years.
Intel knows that telling us to wait a few weeks could cost them a fair bit high-end market share which is where this chip is aimed. If Intel has limited early shipments they will send them to places like NewEgg because they know that if they force me to wait an additional month I'll buy a cheap AMD and spend the next 3 years warning people not to purchase their chips and I won't be the only one.

Well, it's kind of common sense that they're going to provide the chips to the companies who are ordering 10,000 at a time, and paying right then and there, rather than the retailers who are ordering 305. Like all companies, Intel likes money, and they'll do business with them first.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

I'm sorry but where are you getting detailed knowledge of who Intel is shipping to first? Do you have connections at the top of Intel shipping that you failed to mention? You are making some rather strong statements that you fail to add are pure speculation.
I know for a fact that Intel has previously failed to deliver chips in a timely fashion to Dell despite contracts and frankly it would seem highly unwise to load up places like Dell with these chips while leaving the geek community waiting.
If Dell gets their chips two weeks late Dell is mildly annoyed but last I checked they just signed a big contract with AMD so they've already stuck it too Intel and as such have very little recourse. Those on this and other forums, however, can make spectacular or otterly horrible press about the new CPUs that will haunt them for years.
Intel knows that telling us to wait a few weeks could cost them a fair bit high-end market share which is where this chip is aimed. If Intel has limited early shipments they will send them to places like NewEgg because they know that if they force me to wait an additional month I'll buy a cheap AMD and spend the next 3 years warning people not to purchase their chips and I won't be the only one.

What you said make absolutley no sense.

Are you trying to say that a handful of gamers "make spectacular and otterly horrible" press and this should be more critical to Intel then the OEM's business??

If the whiners would stop the whining and start shopping they'd find plenty of C2D's for sale even before the release.

P.S. What is "otterly horrible"?? LOL

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer

Originally posted by: sunzt
Intel does have a lot conroe chips shipping out already.... except that only a tiny portion actually goes to retailors and distributors. Most of it all goes to the big system builders - dell, falcon - and the rest of us get the leftovers. What's worse is that Intel is prohibiting their distributors to sell to retailors until a certain time after the big system builders get them.

I'm sorry but where are you getting detailed knowledge of who Intel is shipping to first? Do you have connections at the top of Intel shipping that you failed to mention? You are making some rather strong statements that you fail to add are pure speculation.
I know for a fact that Intel has previously failed to deliver chips in a timely fashion to Dell despite contracts and frankly it would seem highly unwise to load up places like Dell with these chips while leaving the geek community waiting.
If Dell gets their chips two weeks late Dell is mildly annoyed but last I checked they just signed a big contract with AMD so they've already stuck it too Intel and as such have very little recourse. Those on this and other forums, however, can make spectacular or otterly horrible press about the new CPUs that will haunt them for years.
Intel knows that telling us to wait a few weeks could cost them a fair bit high-end market share which is where this chip is aimed. If Intel has limited early shipments they will send them to places like NewEgg because they know that if they force me to wait an additional month I'll buy a cheap AMD and spend the next 3 years warning people not to purchase their chips and I won't be the only one.

LOL, I'd rather just have you go and buy and AMD setup than to hear this drivel any longer. So please do. The enthusiast market is the smallest market. You know this don't you? First come corporate entities. It's why Woodcrest landed first. Then comes desktop and laptop CPU's for major OEM's where AMD/Intel could sell tens of thousands of CPU's at a clip per vendor.
Then lastly, comes the retail availability at online vendors.

"Those on this and other forums, however, can make spectacular or otterly horrible press about the new CPUs that will haunt them for years."

^^ This made me laugh. I have a feeling that even the most loudmouth "paper launch crybaby" will forgive all, once they have a Core 2 Duo working in there new system. They will forget all about the misery, and psychoanalyst sessions, and find themselves actually praising there rigs and defending them to boot. You might be one of these people.
I don't plan on going Core 2 Duo until October. Prices will have leveled off. More motherboard selection and refinements.
The kicker is, I don't even remotely NEED a Core2Duo system, but I still want one. Go Figure.

 

[bob661]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
The kicker is, I don't even remotely NEED a Core2Duo system, but I still want one. Go Figure.

Me either. I could make do with 2 gigs of ram and a new video card when the G80's come out probably.