Well I start my MCSE training in 2 weeks....

[SilverBack]

This means I get to add the new lap top to the herd doing S@H. MUHAHAHAHAHA LOL
Anyone here certified and have any really good advice?

 

[Jator]

I'm in the middle of getting mine. I've got my MCP.

Advice:

Take Server before Workstation
Don't take IIS, take SQL if you can
Take TCP/IP (even though it won't count towards the 2000) unless you are sure you know most of the content.
Bring a pillow for the Enterprise class.

Jay

 

[JHutch]

Yep, certified. I've got the stamp on my ass to prove it!

Seriously, get transcender tests. Great study aid. If you can pass their practice exams, you can pass the real thing.

JHutch

 

[SilverBack]

I'm taking the course at a certified center.
This is the course:
Included with class offering:
All 7 Courses Necessary for the MCSE + TCP/IP at no charge
5 Core Classes
2151 - MS Win2000 Network & Operating Systems Essentials
2152 - Implementing MS Win2000 Professional & Server
2153 - Implementing & Admin a MS Win2000 Network Infrastructure
2154 - Implementing & Admin MS Win2000 Directory Services
1561 - Designing MS Win2000 Directory Services Infrastructure
2 Electives
2010 - Designing a MS Win2000 Migration Strategy
836 - Proxy Server 2.0
Additional (no cost to student)
688 - Internetworking TCP/IP
Microsoft Official Curriculum (MOC)
Windows 2000 Professional and Windows 2000 Advanced Server Software -Plus more utilities
Review Sessions
Practice Tests
7 Tests Vouchers
Laptop Computer - Approximate Specifications
4XX MMX Processor, 6 GB Hard Drive, 256 MG Ram, Sound, CD ROM and Floppy Drive, 1 Year Warrantee All Parts and Labor

Question for you guys, are you using it ( your certification)? And if you are, where do you work and how do you like your job?
It's a very big possibility that the Service Center will hire me to teach after course completion. They will pay the course fee in that case and I will have to sign a contract for one year. Do you think this will help with getting a position later at a large company if I have teaching experience?
Thanks a lot for the time you guys are taking to write back.

 

[Viztech]

This is probably not a good question to ask with me around.

I completed my MCSE in Aug. 1999, I had a 4.0 GPA, passed all the exams on the first attempt, Instructor had named me the top of my class. Should be on easy street now right? Wrong.

There are no jobs in my area that will take an MCSE without a BS in Computer Science. In fact Paper MCSEs are specifically discriminated against due to the overconfidence and lack of experience.

If you have a job lined up- great, good for you. But from the way you talk, you do not. There are 6 schools in this area that offer MCSE courses. There has been more than once where there has been 2 instructor positions advertised in the paper here, and less than that number of ads for net admins/engineers, and they required a BS and 2 years of experience. Some of my classmates have clambored about trying to get their money back.

Maybe things are better in Indiana, but stay away from Iowa unless you want to work at the golden arches, they are always looking for help there.

viz

 

[LANMAN]

Viz is right.. I have my certification, and without a degree or some way to prove I had experience they really don't want to see you. I even saw a certified MCSE get a job without any real experience and when it came time to go out and perform on customers machines, he fell flat on his face.

So again, I would have to say Viz is right on track; you may have the paper, but can you perform what that certification says you can? You better be willing to take lower (VERY LOW) wages starting out if thats all you have is that paper!!

--LANMAN

 

[Robor]

I'm was going to get my butt in gear and start studying for the MCSE certification but you guys have me worried. I don't have a degree but I've got 3 1/2 years in Information Services as a support tech (NT4, Win9x, TCP/IP, LAN/WAN, some Unix). Do you think if I got a MCSE cert I'd still have trouble getting a better job because I don't have a BS? The thought of taking meaningless college courses to earn a piece of paper is depressing to me...

Rob

 

[Engine]

Question: Aren't you supposed to be an MCT before you teach one of the Microsoft classes?
I'm not getting my MCSE, I'm working on the MCSD instead (two tests down, two to go ), but for the most part I remember the guys teaching my training classes at work being MCTs.

edit: DOH!
Just remembered, the guy who taught my SQL 7 class doesn't have any MS certs at all... he's just got lots of experience Of course, these weren't 'official' Microsoft classes. They were training classes for new hires, and they happened to teach mostly Microsoft stuff.

 

[SilverBack]

The Microsoft Certification center that I'll be training in also does "Consulting" for outside smaller business's who either don't want a MCSE certified person on staff or who can't afford one.
So when I pass the MCSE , if I go to work for this firm, I will be doing field work. Also as I work, I will also have to pass the MCT program as well.
The good thing about this is:
1. I get experience that is moderated by a second MCSE trained personel.
2. Continuing education is provided as long as I stay per contract.
3. Certifcations are "free" , same as 2.
4. In my local area.

All I know is that apparently there is a real shortage of MCSE people in my local area. ( Indiana )
I would rather stay in my local area as this is where my children are ( divorce )
The wage payed at the center is lower than national average.
How I feel about this.
I currently work as a tradesman in a very "LARGE" textile factory. I run a Windmoeller and Hoelscher AstroFlex printing press. So I'm a printer. I make around 36k a year depending on the way holidays fall , vacations, etc.
The wage at the center will be slightly more than this, roughly 4k.
The cost of living in my area is lower than anywhere else in the state, so to me it's not an issue and I'm close to my kids.
My kids.

Hopefully this way I will get enough experience that later if a more important job arises in my area that I will have enough experience and training to land a big money maker

 

[MWalkden]

Robor, your experience will help in some cases. In Iowa, two things are happening. One is that it has been 'degree' required for quite a long time. Second, tech's and the like are second rate here anyway.

If you look at the salary surveys it is evident that business cannot comprehend the need for quality technical departments. Pay in Iowa (Des Moines) is up to 40% less than it is 4 hours away in Kansas City, and 41/2 hours away on the Twin Cities. The cost of living in either of those places is NOT 40% more (in fact, KC is 4% higher than Des Moines right now!).

A prime example is the fact that Iowa was one of the first states (third I believe) to have fiber laid down. Today, almost 10 years later, it is still highly controlled and mostly un-utilized. Big business actually had to lay their own again in many areas if that makes any sense!

Here is another example; ISDN was available when in your state's largest city? Can you say 1997? (Actually very late 96). If you live in an area where IT is not respected then you will have a tough time.

[Edit]Spelling!!!!:|[/Edit]

 

[JHutch]

Number one thing is this industry is experience. In an industry that changes faster and more often than DanC changes his underwear, experience with what is happening is important. The best thing to do is get as much "experience" as you can, whether this is working in a computer lab at school/college, getting a contract position as a tech for a year, whatever... Once you have experience that says, "I have actually used this knowledge I profess to have," the companies look much more favorably on you. Then, once you have the experience, the MCSE, MCP, etc. go much further. A little experience and a little certification paper (usually) equals larger paycheck.

For instance, when I lost my job a year ago, I had 3 years IT/IS experience and a fresh, new MCSE certificate. I was able to find a new job (paying almost twice as much) in less than 2 weeks. I sent out resumes on a Monday, had calls for interviews by thursday and the following week I was interviewing two places a day until I was offered the current job I'm at on Thursday....

Now this was near Cleveland, OH, which has a pretty good IT economy going (compared to Iowa), but most big cities should have similar results...

Just remember, experience, experience, experience.... And experience is what you make of it. For instance, tell your prospective employer than you've networked 5 computers at home using Windows 98, NT, and Linux if you've done that. That isn't "traditional" experience, but this isn't a traditional field of work, and you have to sell what assets you have!

Good luck!

JHutch

 

[SilverBack]

Sounds like very good advice JHutch, thanks.

 

[cory]

i think experience really makes the difference.
all the stuff i have done has all been self taught.
i have taken a few courses but have never gotten anything out of
them. ( i work in progress, unix, networking, hardware and
misc stuff and right now my salary range is above 85,000 a year)


i have been doing contract work since i was 16.

I quit high school in my senior year and got a ged because
they would not let me graduate early.

the first full time job i got after high school i was able
to double my pay in less than 3 years.
(they had hired more than 10 people with degrees and certs
to do the job and not one of them worked out)

and we have hired many people with and without degree's and
i have found that the people without degrees have almost
always been the better employee.

and i have a friend that has no degree and it
took him 3 days to get a new job making 10,000 more than
his current employer.
when he was looking for a job before that
in just 1 week and had 3 offers.

i am glad that i did not go to school.
i was able to buy my first home when i was 21 and my
vacation home when i was 29.
i am currently 34.

once you do get your first computer related job, make sure
you really push yourself to get exp in as many areas as you can.
dont just wait for somebody to tell or show you what to do.
try and figure the stuff out on your own.
if you figure something out on your own you will find that you
learn a lot more than just having somebody tell you.

 

[Viztech]

Silver-

Look at the Ads in your local area. Try to get informational interviews to feel out the situation. After all, jobs are where it's at. I quit a 40k+ job to do this at age 43. I never would have done it if I knew this was going to happen. It has put a tremendous strain on my family, which is obviously what is driving you. I would jump at a 30k job now.

Robor-

You probably have half a chance with 3.5 years in the Industry.

I really wonder if the days of wonderment are over in this Industry. Now it is getting settled down and the College boys are running the show. I have seen job descriptions that include changing floppy drives, CD Roms, hard drives, adding memory, loading software etc. that now REQUIRE a BS. I can do that stuff in my sleep.

When I was setting up the Shelter network, I had a volunteer who was a Senior in CS. He had never done the stuff that I was doing, i.e. setting up a network. I was teaching him networking, while he was teaching me about octal, hexadecimal, yada yada.

He landed a 40k programming job on his second interview. I'm living off of retirement savings and scraping up odd jobs, computer and otherwise.

Oh, well you reap what you sow.

[/rant mode off]

Best of luck to you all!

viz

 

[Dag]

I agree I think it is the exp that matters. I passed my NT4 workstation to get my mcp on the way to my mcse a few years ago. I then took the server test a month later without studying and missed by one question. I had planned to go get it, but lost my motivation when I decided to quit my job. I circulated my resume's around with my mcp and 1.5 years of hardware exp. I had 3.5 years of college and was still finishing up. I was asked to quit college so they could hire me full time by 2 companies and had about 4 offers.

I have never had anyone ask, care, or want my BS. I do have it now just becuase I figured I should finish my last year up. Match your certifications to your exp and try to build yourself as a specialist in a certain area (hardware, client os is fairly easy to get into.) Then branch out. Classes are ok, but I would reccomend trying self study first. Get a copy of win2k, the offical MS book to the 2k test, and a good training book for it or a test from transender. See how you do on this one and that should tell you if you need the classes for the others.

just my 2 pennies.
Dag

 

[Assimilator1]

Interesting stuff.

I'm in the UK though ,curently a mechanic & fed up with it ,I've no official experience with IT,though I've been tinkering with PC's for about 2 yrs now ,& small networks for about 6 mths or so.
I'm looking at going into the IT industry (desktop/network side) ,any recommendations?
I was thinking of doing some MS online course (?)

 

[certifyexpress]

Hmmm... Going straight to Win2K isn't a very good idea. But since you have already registred for the class, then good luck to you.

I would always suggest MCSE wanabies to get the three NT4 exams frist then switch to Win2k, that way you'll have expertice on both world. I belive most current organization have yet to migrate to win2k yet so jobs on MCSE2k certified isn't that widely available yet.

Any for certification discussion drop by at my cert site. All the moderators there are certified in their respective ereas.

Good luck in your studies.

 

[MWalkden]

certifyexpress, I disagree with you there, sort of. Win2K is a far superior product and knowing how to use it effectively is a huge bonus. It is selling as fast as it is because it has a very effective TCO. Anyone running a 100% Windows supported platform should move to 2K ASAP. The centralized management ability of Active Directory is worth it all by itself. For those that have Windows departments not riding on Novell, Win2K will greatly help them as long as the administration structure of the company can be altered to fit the ability. Migrating Novell to all Windows makes sense too. The additional benefits of the active directory over Novell solutions, not to mention the fact that you remove a whole level of support requirement, makes this a ?no? ?brainer? to me. Now if you are talking about companies that don't understand any of that and what it means.....no matter how many TCO comparisions you show them...

Welcome to Iowa!

NT4 experience is going to help you greatly if you are responsible for migrating. Taking classes or just self-teaching NT4 is important. I just believe the Win2K stuff is the place you want to be first. With a job already lined up how can you go wrong?

 

[Stallion]

After you get your MCSE you should look into getting your CCNA. My wife is 2 tests away from her MCSE and is then going to start her CCNA. I also think that experience is what helps. The wife is into the Unix,Linux,Cisco thing and she started from the ground floor She has been at Boeing for almost 15 years and is now making some serious coin. Maybe you should move out to the Seattle area , bring the kids. you do like rain don't ya.

 

[Robor]

Great thread. Thanks to everyone for the advice. I may have the need to apply some of this in the near future as the company I work for is under major change right now. Our corporate office has been sold and they are moving the people there into 2 existing branches. The old saying, "you can't fit 10lbs of %&#@ in a 5lb bag" applies here. Layoffs have started and they aren't finished. I've got 15 years with this company (right out of highschool) but that doesn't matter. They layed off a 14 year person and several 10+ people 2 days ago. My only advantage is I'm underpaid for what I'm doing.

Rob

PS - If I do get let go it would likely slaughter 2/3 of my output.

 

[Wellcky]

Bill Gates droped out of College, and look at him now! LONG LIVE THE NERDS

[edit] I was in NSS(Network Support Specialist) in college but after early 4 quarters, (5 to grad),I went back to Graphic Design. Reason being I wanted to work on the web and be creative, NSS just got to be "memorize this, memorize that".. for me anyways. After a year or two I'll head back to school for e-Commerce. My recommendation would be go get your A+ then test the waters to see if you want to dive in.[/edit]

 

[certifyexpress]

MWalkden, yes I know Win2K are superior than the NT4s in most areas but they are both totaly diffrent technology all together. Not to mention that win2k is still relatively new and companies can't just throw in everything just because its a new version by Microsoft. There are other factors to consider just like cost, training, time, management and lots more. I know most companies are eager to upgrade but at large MIS managers are still watching each other, like who had or going to implement first and be the "geinnie pig" (is that the correct spelling?). I mean Microsoft had no choice but to release these bugs OS so that we can do their work for them, right? Then MS will start releasing those service pack(S) just to fix all those known/unknown bugs.

Anyhow MCSE cert have lost its glamour lately it not like those days where people who owns MCSE are really tech pros. Now even newbies can get the hand of this cert just by accessing those ridiculous braindumps out there.