Well I guess Dean will get the democrat nod

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
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Pretty sad Kerry polls better vs Bush. Kerry is just, well, hes a moron when it comes campaigning.

Clark is screwing the pouch. Ignoring all the early primary states and trying to woo Hollywood. Come on, policy sessions with Madonna and other celebs, give me a fvcking break. These people don't know anything.

Dean, Kerry, and Clark are the only ones that have a shot. At this point I think Dean is going to steam roll over both of them because they are so incompetent when it comes to campaigning. But Dean doesnt have a chance vs Bush, unless something major happens between now and election day.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
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I have given money to the Dean campaign. He probably isn't electable. But I am so tired of candidate like Bush and Gore to choose from. Bradley McCain would have been a dynamite matchup last time. But of all the words, the saddest are "What might have been." -- unless you count ShadowHawk's vitriol.
 
May 16, 2000
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I agree on many levels. Dean isn't that great of a candidate, but he's far better than Kerry or Clark for me. Both have come out EXTREMELY anti-gun rights which is unacceptable to earn my vote. I've thrown my towel in with the Dean crowd for this election, instead of the libertarians who are not mounting a serious campaign this election. I'm also experiencing fear that even with third party converts there won't be enough steam to disrail the Bushites.

As for Deans choices in campaign form, well, that's debatable. Dean isn't going to win with anyone who has money, anyone high up in any large business. He's not going to take any religious votes unless he plays strong to the religious moderates instead of Bush's religious/poltico extremists. He won't take any blind patriots or military. He's really only got a few people to try and get 100% behind him. Environmentalists, civil liberty supporters, and the poor that don't fit more into one of the other categories. He's got to secure a huge portion of the liberals because that's who's mostly against Bush. So using hollywood is a means to an end there. As the celeb's do, so do the lower grade of liberal. He's letting their fame do his campaigning for him. Is it good enough to get elected, probably not. But he's got very little other choice.

I'm sure come next year he'll spend the vast majority of campaign funds and time exposing the negative Bush traits and hoping Bush hangs himself...and with that man that's still a strong possibility. If the Republicans are smart they'll stick w in a closet for the next 11 months to keep him from screwing himself with his usual stupidities.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
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You forgot to mention that Dean has little chance of garnering any support in the Dixie States. Dean is a Yankee, and a liberal one at that. He will be trying to gain support from conservative, Republican leaning Democrats. It's a shame that Kerry, Gephart, and the rest couldn't have got their stuff together and ran a coherent campaign.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
70,124
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Dean was against the war so if he's in I will be able to vote for him. I would have voted for Bush or a war loving coward democrat just to have the real thing. What matters is that there are men of truth in the race. Without that the truth will never win. At least there will be the option to vote for somebody with insight and integrity and the hope that persuades the people. I'm sick to death of sh!t for candidates.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
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Originally posted by: maluckey
You forgot to mention that Dean has little chance of garnering any support in the Dixie States. Dean is a Yankee, and a liberal one at that. He will be trying to gain support from conservative, Republican leaning Democrats. It's a shame that Kerry, Gephart, and the rest couldn't have got their stuff together and ran a coherent campaign.
What makes you say that? I'm in the deep south and there isn't one Southerner that I've talked to that wouldn't vote for Dean. They'all can't wait to get Bush out.



 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: maluckey
You forgot to mention that Dean has little chance of garnering any support in the Dixie States. Dean is a Yankee, and a liberal one at that. He will be trying to gain support from conservative, Republican leaning Democrats. It's a shame that Kerry, Gephart, and the rest couldn't have got their stuff together and ran a coherent campaign.
What makes you say that? I'm in the deep south and there isn't one Southerner that I've talked to that wouldn't vote for Dean. They'all can't wait to get Bush out.
Just like I'm in Iowa and no one I've talked to about Dean can stand him.:D ...and yes some were "Democrats";)

CkG
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,677
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I really rather like Dean, largely because he's not owned by the big money of either party, and because he makes sense on many levels.

Taking guns off the table is extremely prescient- it's really a dead issue, and Bush gathered a lot of single issue voters on it just because those folks saw Gore as a gun-grabber. That's not to attribute any truth to the argument, one way or the other.

Jobs, trade and the economy are Bush weaknesses. No matter what the stock market does, the loss of decent-paying jobs is a killer. Yeh, things may look better at election time, but guys who've been forced down the foodchain with no relief in sight won't really care- their new job at WalMart sucks compared to their old job at the factory, and they know it... Dean calls it the way it is, the fact that few replacement jobs pay as well as the lost jobs... Rural and Southern Americans aren't stupid, they're the hardest hit, and they know it.

Then there's mounting debt and corporate cronyism looting the treasury, hamstringing the govt, coupled with bogus trickle down taxcuts. Dean's stance and record on fiscal restraint and taxes reflect reality, rather than pie in the sky claims that borrowing, corporate greed and excess wealth are the saviours of America...

And if Dubya can't get Iraq under control RSN, which seems unlikely, Dean's stance will definitely be an asset.

All kinds of other vulnerabilities for the Bushies, too, from their miserable record on the environment to the possibility of other low-simmer scandals blowing up in their faces, like Cheney's energy meeting notes, further revelations about 9/11, or the Plame outing... Flare-ups in Afghanistan, possible SCOTUS rulings against Gitmo, further terror attacks thru the non-defenses and non-preparedness agenda...

Face it, Bush can't effectively campaign to the middle, those folks know they've been sold out one way or another. He has to depend on his base, and on scaremongering and flag-waving. These aren't necessarily bad tactics, they've worked for him so far... if only as diversions from the real agenda... Fai;ure to use 9/11 for anything other than partisan ends is the real weakness of this Administration.

Dean has a chance, I'd say a better one than the other contenders. Run Wesley Clark as VP, hammer at the dishonesty of the current regime, offer a fresh agenda and a real choice. Failure to do so was the real reason for disastrous Democratic losses in 2002- given the choice between real republicans and Bush-lite me-too wannabes, the public will chose the real thing, dream of real Democrats coming back to run their party...
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
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I agree on many levels. Dean isn't that great of a candidate, but he's far better than Kerry or Clark for me. Both have come out EXTREMELY anti-gun rights which is unacceptable to earn my vote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kerry is only for an assault rifle ban leaving the rest pretty much untouched. Personally, I have little issue with that one. I mean, who really needs an ak-47 or m16? Sure, there are collectors, but what practical uses are there for those kinds of guns?
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
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I know many,many more republicans than I do democrats here where I live and work, and almost 3 to1 have told me they will not vote for Bush re election even if they have to not vote at all. That is a sad commentary on this President and administrstion, and If I where a republican congressman, I'ld be damn worried too, after the sorry output of congress in the last 2 years. By no means is Bush secure in this next election. The Iraq turkey day will haunt him, the medicare reform will haunt him, the 3 milino lost jobs will haunt him, the stonewalling of the OMB and congressional investigating commitees looking into corprate fraud and energy management,downgrading envirnmental protection laws and open rebellion against Kyoto and the UN are going to cost him republican votes all ocver the place. On substance, Bush loses, but you canbet there will be plenty of retorict Bushy's will be using in heavily funded campaign ads to try and discredit any apponent. Once burned, twice learned. Bush will not be able to scheme his way into a re election this time. Dems wil lexpose every lie this guy tries to use, and if Saddam and osama somehow get found around full swing of election cycle, that will be the death nail. Bush wil lbe exposed for politicising the war with Iraq at the expense of amarican lives and taxpayer dollars. And if he does get those two desperados, Right now I think he is a day late and a dollar short for credibility. The American voter is not stupid. Another Florida will not save him this time.

In a few weeks, I may send Dean money. He at least has the guts to speak out against the Bush administration and offer some hope for a sea change in thinking, from domestic to foreign affairs, both issues that Bush fails miserably in.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
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Originally posted by: maluckey
You forgot to mention that Dean has little chance of garnering any support in the Dixie States. Dean is a Yankee, and a liberal one at that. He will be trying to gain support from conservative, Republican leaning Democrats. It's a shame that Kerry, Gephart, and the rest couldn't have got their stuff together and ran a coherent campaign.
I think that Dean can appeal to certain Southern Democrats and moderate Republicans. He is for state's rights in terms of guns. He has balanced state budgets and is a straight talker. I personally think that once people find out that he is general practice doctor - a citizen politican ... he can draw in a lot of support.
Also, Dean or any Democrat does not need to win much of the South ... he needs one big Southern State like Florida or Louisiana. If he was to win the nomination, he should definitely pick someone from the South like Clark or a Southern Senator (either of Louisiana's Senators would be a fine choice). "One of Gore's mistake I believe was not selecting a Southern Senator like Edwards or Graham.

Lastly, I think that if anyone is to "stop" Dean, it will have to be Gephart in Iowa. If Dean wins Iowa and then New Hampshire ... that will be 2 week's worth of free coverage. By the time the South Carolina comes around it may Dean may have too much momentum.

I think Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean would be ideal. Anyone but GWB.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Interesting how it is the Guys saying Dean/Clark while Women and Minorities say Dean/Clinton.
I was reading at gallup's site about the break-down of the candidate's supporters. These are all Registered Democrats of people who said they were leaning Democrat. Top 3:
Men (N=548)
Clark 19%
Dean 17%
Gephardt 15%

Women(N=795)
Dean 16%
Lieberman 15%
Clark 12%

Linky - again, you may have to be a member.

CkG
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,511
46
91
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: X-Man
Dean strikes me as too hot under the collar to be Presidential timber. Reminds me a bit of Martin Sheen in The Dead Zone . . . and not in a good way.

Good pic, interesting article . . .
if you pick canidates by pics i hope you didnt vote for bush...



bush avi...
It isn't the pic that gave me doubts about his temperament, but all the articles about it that have come out recently.

I'd probably vote for Lieberman if he was the Democrat candidate. I like Bush, but he doesn't have anyone with new ideas in his Cabinet, and for the most part Colin Powell has become marginalized IMO.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Interesting how it is the Guys saying Dean/Clark while Women and Minorities say Dean/Clinton.
I was reading at gallup's site about the break-down of the candidate's supporters. These are all Registered Democrats of people who said they were leaning Democrat. Top 3:
Men (N=548)
Clark 19%
Dean 17%
Gephardt 15%

Women(N=795)
Dean 16%
Lieberman 15%
Clark 12%

Linky - again, you may have to be a member.

CkG
Thanks CAD for the back up data. Must be the "General" thing that has the attention of the guys, can't say what it is for the Women. Too bad they didn't do a Running Mate Poll.


 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Dean was against the war so if he's in I will be able to vote for him. I would have voted for Bush or a war loving coward democrat just to have the real thing. What matters is that there are men of truth in the race. Without that the truth will never win. At least there will be the option to vote for somebody with insight and integrity and the hope that persuades the people. I'm sick to death of sh!t for candidates.
By men of "truth" you mean those with whom you agree with, correct?
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: Strk
I agree on many levels. Dean isn't that great of a candidate, but he's far better than Kerry or Clark for me. Both have come out EXTREMELY anti-gun rights which is unacceptable to earn my vote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kerry is only for an assault rifle ban leaving the rest pretty much untouched. Personally, I have little issue with that one. I mean, who really needs an ak-47 or m16? Sure, there are collectors, but what practical uses are there for those kinds of guns?
Ask me that again if Bush's administration craps on our constitution much more.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: Strk
I agree on many levels. Dean isn't that great of a candidate, but he's far better than Kerry or Clark for me. Both have come out EXTREMELY anti-gun rights which is unacceptable to earn my vote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kerry is only for an assault rifle ban leaving the rest pretty much untouched. Personally, I have little issue with that one. I mean, who really needs an ak-47 or m16? Sure, there are collectors, but what practical uses are there for those kinds of guns?
IMO, the issue of guns isnt practicality, but the fact that I am guaranteed the right to bear arms. Nowhere does it say the right to bear "selected arms" or the right to bear "arms except for these...". I am guaranteed a right to bear arms [and by the way I read that, I can have any gun I damn well please.]

so therefore the issue of practicality becomes moot. Whats so practical about driving a huge ass Hummer H2 or Ford Excursion? There is none, people just seem to like them and want them. Just like I like assault rifles and want an AK.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
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Moonbeam:

You can count on truth being the victor in the next election. Take it to the bank. Bet the farm. Leave the wife alone with it.

-Robert
 

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