Well Guys and gals, I am back with another question

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Alright let me put this at the top of the thread. PLease, please, if you are gonna vote about which dually setup to use, then pleasealso vote for the dually system in the first poll. It will allow you to do this right? If not I appologize, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Thanks


Old thread

Well theres the link to my old thread, if you would like to browse it. If you remember it, you will know I was trying to decide what CPU to use in my HTPC, for th emost part everyone said to use my AXP in my current system in the HTPC. That was not the way that I really wanted to go, but after more thinking about it, I have decided to take everyones advice. So my AXP2100+, ECS K7S5A, 512MB Crucial and some other parts will make its way into my new HTPC. Which leaves me with no main rig. SO what do i do now??????

I am not set in any direction with this, as I was with the HTPC, so this should be less of a struggle. I am currently considering 3-4 options as strong candidates, but am open to others as well. The way I see it, I can get a mobile AXP and overclock it on an nForce 2 board, or I could also go with an A64 and nForce 3 250 board, those are my 2 most likely options. But I also have a couple more extravagant options. 1 would be a FIC condor, I absolutely love the looks of this system. While it would require me to go the intel route, I would be open to that in this case, the only problem I see is that I have heard they will be releasing a newer version with more bells and whistles, and maybe more BIOS options. I am also considering go with a dually setup, probablly Athlon XP-M or MP based, but maybe would go opteron, but if I go that route it would likely start with only 1 proc to keep costs down, adding a second later.

Since I don't do any one thing heavily, its a touch choice. Obviously if I was a huge gamer, the A64 would be best, encoding generally is believed to be Intels area, but I know AMD can hold its own if not outperofrm it in some encoding apps. The Intel option has the benefit of being SFF though. I would thinkt he dually setup would lend itself well to multitasking and encoding, but not sure if I do enough to really take advantage of them. SO what would you do, which would you choose????
 

Sahrin

Member
Mar 27, 2004
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I don't own, but have had the pleasure of using a really high-quality Dual Opteron setup (think 248's)...and it's just a joy to work with. People talk about how PIV's are more "responsive" or "feel faster" than Athlon's...there's no comparison between HT and true Multi-threading. In the near future I plan to build my own Opteron box just for various power purposes (Dualie Opterons never go out of style...he he he). I know it's a costly option, but especially with the new features that are coming out for essentially sharing processing power over LAN's (think ATi's Easyshare)...having something that powerful on a LAN is going to become a killer app (at least I think so). It's got the power of Athlon 64 complete with a full set of enterprise-class features. I also wanted to again state my reservations about the assumption that Intel is the encoding king. We have no idea how XP-64 will affect it, but Anand's article on Beta performance was really revealing as to how encoding might be affected by AMD64. Either way, good luck man.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Well not many apps as of now, at least that most people use are multithreaded, so thats not of much help. I hadn't really heard much about the sharing of CPU power over a LAN that you speak of, i will have to check into that. And like I stated abotu the Intel/encoding myth. I know that intel can stomp on AMD in many encoding apps, mainly divx, but Xvid and some othe rprograms tend to perform better on AMD CPU's and as you stated, when 64 bit OS's become the norm and more 64 bit programs are available, then the A64's will cream the P4's, but I think in order for that to happen Intel will have to start mass shipping thier own 64bit CPU's. So AMD's advantage with 64 bits may not mean as much.
 

Sahrin

Member
Mar 27, 2004
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On both counts (your counter on x86-64 and Mutli-threading) there is an inherent benefit of having the OS run Multi-threaded or in Long Mode. Especially with XP-64 we saw that even with 32-bit apps, there were is some cases enormous performance gains just because the OS was running in LM. Multi-threading is a lesser case, granted...but there is always Asymmetric Multi Threading to consider. I'm not sure whether or not XPPro supports it, but in the case that it does you can control the workload each CPU handles (the example I always use is run all system processes on one CPU, and the other runs only a game...the possibilities). Just a thought.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Holy crap, most of what you just said, flew right over my head, what the heck is long mode? Well Assuming it won't cause a negative performance hit for gaming and whatnot, I will likely run my NFR copy of Windows Server 2003 SBE. Duallys do sound pretty freakin cool though. I really need to find some mor eifno on them. I have been checking out 2cpu.com, but while the info there is good, its mainly just the forums. I like to read articles and stuff. To get the info I need I suppose I will have to start posting on thier forums.



Now on a differant note, just to clear up the way my polls work, since someone didn't understand. Anyone may vote in the first poll, if in that poll you choose the dual rig, then you may post in the second poll, as to which option would be best.
 

Alkaline5

Senior member
Jun 21, 2001
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Shuttle AN35N + OCed Mobile Barton = Price/Performance King

If money is no object, though, then by all means go w/ Dual Opterons or a single A64 3800+.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Well money is an object, thus the reason I stated if I went with dual opterons I would only be able to get one initially.
 

Sahrin

Member
Mar 27, 2004
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Originally posted by: coolred
Holy crap, most of what you just said, flew right over my head, what the heck is long mode? Well Assuming it won't cause a negative performance hit for gaming and whatnot, I will likely run my NFR copy of Windows Server 2003 SBE. Duallys do sound pretty freakin cool though. I really need to find some mor eifno on them. I have been checking out 2cpu.com, but while the info there is good, its mainly just the forums. I like to read articles and stuff. To get the info I need I suppose I will have to start posting on thier forums.
...I'm really having a hard time remembering where this site is, but there is a review site that sells hardware as well (aqua and gray and white color scheme) that reviewed a whole BUNCH of Opterons and Optie Mobos in depth. They talk about NUMA-aware OS's (something you might want to talk advantage of-but it will seriously increase the cost of your mobo) and AMT (Asymmetric Multi-taskin'). As far as Long Mode goes, when AMD created the AMD64 instruction set (x86-64), they couldn't just toss in the extra instructions/enhancements to IA32, they had to seperate it in some manner (for maximum compatibility). The biggest advantages of AMD64 are really the extra GPR's (as opposed to L1 or L2 cache, GPR's (General Purpose Registers) are Level 0 cache)...in IA32 software doesn't know that they're there, so AMD said "we're going to create three modes." One is the mode almost all A64's are running right now, "Legacy Mode." This is regular 32-bit execution (IA32), with only the enhancements that K8 has over K7, no x86-64, no extra GPR's. The next mode of operation is called "Long Mode." This mode executes in both of its sub-mode at least some operations is 64-bit. The first subt-set of long Mode is called Compatibility Mode. This is where the true advantage of the aarchitecture is. This allows the Processors to execute selective x86-64 code in addition to any regular 32-bit code that may be needed. This is why there is a performance boost associated with running XP64, when no other applications use it. This is where the architechture will live for many years to come...I don't think I will ever stop playing Doom. The next mode up is "64-bit Mode." This is the ideal situation. Living in a perfect world, all Operations would be executed here to take full advantages of the benefits of 64-bit software. Sadly, this won't happen in the life of this generation.

I just dug this site up, looking for the AMD64 Mode chart, and it has pretty good if not completely in-depth information. For more indepth information on the x86-64 architecture, hit up Arstechnica Technical Blackpapers like a saigon you know what.
Hardware Secrets
Ars' 64-bit Computing Article
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Wow, that second link has a ton of info, most of it is more then I wanted to know, LOL. And for some reason your first link is not working. But thanks for the info.
 

Sahrin

Member
Mar 27, 2004
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The first link isn't working because silly AT forums doesn't use real markup language, so just delete the first http:// from the address and you'll be set to jet.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I would appreciate it if everyone that votes in the polls, could also post a message stating why they voted that way.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Bringing this up one more time, to see if I get any more repsonses, thanks to everyone who contributed.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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I voted XP Moble because of price, heat output (compared to Prescott anyway), and SoundStorm.
 

coolred

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2001
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Just a single mobile? Well yeah I guess so if your talking about soundstorm. Although that is not a big deal for me.