Well Democrats found an government agency to cut back

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
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GOP Rep. John Kline of Minnesota will offer an amendment Thursday to restore $3 million of the $11 million planned cutback in OLMS's budget, so its budget would merely be restored to its 2007 level. Whatever sums are spent on union disclosure reports appear to be a good investment. Unions held $22 billion in assets in 2005, and you'd think that a modest enforcement budget, representing less than 0.003% of that amoun,t shouldn't be the only target for cuts by budget appropriators.

Unions have been dieing for some time now. People feel less inclined to need them but this doesn't stop them from fighting back. They have only one real avenue when the people abandon them : Government.

From looking to change the sacred secret ballot (see previous discussions about removing the need for a secret ballot to get a union into a shop) to getting government regulators from hitting them from reporting what they do with their money.

Sorry, but if they collect dues they owe it to their people to let them know exactly where its going. Why is that important? Simple, because when they go on strike the union members look to the union funds to support them in place of an employer paycheck. If the unions are spending this on things other than union members it needs to be known. From lavish benefits and pay for union leadership to political action.

Yet Congress seems quite willing to look the other way. A successful office is being punished for being that, successful. I don't like it. Politicians need to serve the people, not the corporations or the unions. If we can't trust corporations with all the watchdogs in place and we cannot trust unions with their watchdogs then to whom can we trust?

 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Unions have been dieing for some time now. People feel less inclined to need them but this doesn't stop them from fighting back.

Unions are getting weaker because most of them represent low skilled workers, who can easily be replaced in China and India.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.

:confused: I'm sure competition from from corporations that aren't unionized has nothing to do with it.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
So likes a good plan to level the playing field against what has been done the last 7 years. :thumbsup:

You mean actually prosecuting and persuing Union fraud and corruption cases? Yeah we don't need that, it's too unfair. Screw the workers that pay the dues...
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,861
68
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.

:confused: I'm sure competition from from corporations that aren't unionized has nothing to do with it.
:confused: funny how unions always tout "Job Security" but then they get laid off because the competitor has non union workers.

The past 10 years unions have been the least secure job in America. Not only are they digging thier own grave, they are taking away job oppurtunities for non union americans at the same time. They have such strangleholds on the corporations they have contracts with, that not only will the corp not create any more union positions, they can't even create non-union positions within the US if they want to, and instead have to go overseas.


 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.

:confused: I'm sure competition from from corporations that aren't unionized has nothing to do with it.
:confused: funny how unions always tout "Job Security" but then they get laid off because the competitor has non union workers.

The past 10 years unions have been the least secure job in America. Not only are they digging thier own grave, they are taking away job oppurtunities for non union americans at the same time. They have such strangleholds on the corporations they have contracts with, that not only will the corp not create any more union positions, they can't even create non-union positions within the US if they want to, and instead have to go overseas.

I hear that walmart is paying its employees well.
 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
1,326
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.

:confused: I'm sure competition from from corporations that aren't unionized has nothing to do with it.
:confused: funny how unions always tout "Job Security" but then they get laid off because the competitor has non union workers.

The past 10 years unions have been the least secure job in America. Not only are they digging thier own grave, they are taking away job oppurtunities for non union americans at the same time. They have such strangleholds on the corporations they have contracts with, that not only will the corp not create any more union positions, they can't even create non-union positions within the US if they want to, and instead have to go overseas.

orly? The craftsman unions around my part of the country seem to be doing pretty well for their employees. Journeymen carpenters are making $28 an hour to start, that seems like a pretty fair wage.

I would say that call center/system administration jobs would be far less secure than a union job.

The IBEW, NCUA, Longshoremen, grocers, foodhandlers unions all seem to be doing well here.

Of course, if you want to document your very specific statement, I'll be happy to be surprised.
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
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Actually, a lot of that union security will depend on your seniority. If you're under a couple years seniority, you're just fodder.

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,887
11,283
136
I've been union for most of my 30+ years working, as well as having served as a business agent for my union. ANY union member can go to his or her union hall and request a form that requires the union NOT to spend a single dime of their dues on political activities. That's Federal law.
Will doing so earn you any "brownie points" in the hall? Not likely, since unions do tend to spend heavily in the political process, and spend MOST of their political $$ on Democrats...for good reasons. The Dems support labor...while the Repubs try to break unions. That's been proven time and time again...so, WHY would you give political donations to the party that wants to put you out of business?

A working man who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: BoomerD
I've been union for most of my 30+ years working, as well as having served as a business agent for my union. ANY union member can go to his or her union hall and request a form that requires the union NOT to spend a single dime of their dues on political activities. That's Federal law.
Will doing so earn you any "brownie points" in the hall? Not likely, since unions do tend to spend heavily in the political process, and spend MOST of their political $$ on Democrats...for good reasons. The Dems support labor...while the Repubs try to break unions. That's been proven time and time again...so, WHY would you give political donations to the party that wants to put you out of business?

A working man who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...

That's part of the problem right there - Unions have become a "business". They have lost sight of what they were created to do - protect workers. They have become as corrupt as the corporations they were fighting against. Sad really.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That's part of the problem right there - Unions have become a "business". They have lost sight of what they were created to do - protect workers. They have become as corrupt as the corporations they were fighting against. Sad really.

"As corrupt as the corporations"? Nice to see you haven't lost your flair for hyperbole, and that you admit the corporate culture of corruption...

A huge portion of Union expense is accrued in greivance and arbitration hearings. You know, to improve working conditions, or, as is all too often the case, keep them from deteriorating, and restore jobs to workers who were improperly dismissed, little things like that...

Obviously, the CEO's and BOD's of this world don't give a damn about workers. If they did, unions would cease to exist. And the whole stream of crocodile tears coming from the rightwing about AFL-CIO pay and perks for their upper echelons is near comical, seeing the pay scales and benefits for union leaders' corporate counterparts...

It's the same stream of tears wrt the "sacred secret ballot"- employers actually oppose collective bargaining in general, exploiting the election procedure to avoid it when possible. It's their better alternative to the card check method, where they can't necessarily identify and harass organizers... adopting that would put a whole class of rightwing corporate thugs out of business...

Maybe we should seek the same accountability from both sides of this divide. That way, either corporate entities would have to account for every dime, like unions, or unions could file one report with the members and another entirely different one with the federal regulators, as is done with stockholders and the SEC... from those reports, you wouldn't even know they were talking about the same company... reference Enron, Global Crossing and a procession of lesser and often perfectly legal thievery...
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
That's part of the problem right there - Unions have become a "business". They have lost sight of what they were created to do - protect workers. They have become as corrupt as the corporations they were fighting against. Sad really.

"As corrupt as the corporations"? Nice to see you haven't lost your flair for hyperbole, and that you admit the corporate culture of corruption...

A huge portion of Union expense is accrued in greivance and arbitration hearings. You know, to improve working conditions, or, as is all too often the case, keep them from deteriorating, and restore jobs to workers who were improperly dismissed, little things like that...

Obviously, the CEO's and BOD's of this world don't give a damn about workers. If they did, unions would cease to exist. And the whole stream of crocodile tears coming from the rightwing about AFL-CIO pay and perks for their upper echelons is near comical, seeing the pay scales and benefits for union leaders' corporate counterparts...

It's the same stream of tears wrt the "sacred secret ballot"- employers actually oppose collective bargaining in general, exploiting the election procedure to avoid it when possible. It's their better alternative to the card check method, where they can't necessarily identify and harass organizers... adopting that would put a whole class of rightwing corporate thugs out of business...

Maybe we should seek the same accountability from both sides of this divide. That way, either corporate entities would have to account for every dime, like unions, or unions could file one report with the members and another entirely different one with the federal regulators, as is done with stockholders and the SEC... from those reports, you wouldn't even know they were talking about the same company... reference Enron, Global Crossing and a procession of lesser and often perfectly legal thievery...

Uhh. I see you haven't lost your penchant for reading too much into my posts.

I never said(admitted) there was a corporate culture of corruption. It's not that I think corruption doesn't exist(because it does) but you see, unions were formed because of corruption and greed. Now they've taken on those same charatoristics they used to fight against. You want to see the corruption reports?

Speaking of hyperbole - "Obviously, the CEO's and BOD's of this world don't give a damn about workers." - Yeah because CEO's and BOD's make all sorts of money when they have not workers :roll: Get a grip - The employer needs the worker and the worker needs the employer. It can and should be a win win situation. However unions screw up that relationship by standing between the two and then demanding payment.

Good to see there are a still a few union fluffers here. It wouldn't be the same without you guys.:)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Unions have been dieing for some time now. People feel less inclined to need them but this doesn't stop them from fighting back.

Unions are getting weaker because most of them represent low skilled workers, who can easily be replaced in China and India.

Give me a break, airline workers like mechanics, pilots, and flight attendants are low skill? How about the auto worker working the machines?

 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: BoomerD
I've been union for most of my 30+ years working, as well as having served as a business agent for my union. ANY union member can go to his or her union hall and request a form that requires the union NOT to spend a single dime of their dues on political activities. That's Federal law.
Will doing so earn you any "brownie points" in the hall? Not likely, since unions do tend to spend heavily in the political process, and spend MOST of their political $$ on Democrats...for good reasons. The Dems support labor...while the Repubs try to break unions. That's been proven time and time again...so, WHY would you give political donations to the party that wants to put you out of business?

A working man who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders...

Dems support labor, yup, NAFTA proved that didn't it!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Unions are getting weaker because for the most part they are corrupt organizations whose only purpose is self preservation.

These are not the unions of previous generations who actually fought for worker rights.

:confused: I'm sure competition from from corporations that aren't unionized has nothing to do with it.
:confused: funny how unions always tout "Job Security" but then they get laid off because the competitor has non union workers.

The past 10 years unions have been the least secure job in America. Not only are they digging thier own grave, they are taking away job oppurtunities for non union americans at the same time. They have such strangleholds on the corporations they have contracts with, that not only will the corp not create any more union positions, they can't even create non-union positions within the US if they want to, and instead have to go overseas.

orly? The craftsman unions around my part of the country seem to be doing pretty well for their employees. Journeymen carpenters are making $28 an hour to start, that seems like a pretty fair wage.

I would say that call center/system administration jobs would be far less secure than a union job.

The IBEW, NCUA, Longshoremen, grocers, foodhandlers unions all seem to be doing well here.

Of course, if you want to document your very specific statement, I'll be happy to be surprised.

Wait for Walmart and their grocery business to change that around. Who do you think has been funding this war on Walmart lately? The grocers unions because they know where that industry is headed.


 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
I hear the port workers clerical union is about to strike on the west coast. They are currently pushing a contract that would result in them earning $56/hr by the end of their contract. Let me type that again. THEY ARE CURRENTLY PUSHING A CONTRACT THAT WOULD RESULT IN THEM EARNING $56/HR BY THE END OF THEIR CONTRACT...FOR CLERICAL WORK!! I'm a college educated software engineer, and I dont make close to that much. Most unions today are about extortion, especially if that unions represent a job force that cant be offshored.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
[ ... ]
Maybe we should seek the same accountability from both sides of this divide. That way, either corporate entities would have to account for every dime, like unions, or unions could file one report with the members and another entirely different one with the federal regulators, as is done with stockholders and the SEC... from those reports, you wouldn't even know they were talking about the same company... reference Enron, Global Crossing and a procession of lesser and often perfectly legal thievery...
That was essentially my thought as well. Other than his trollish hyperbole, I agree with Shiv on this. Unions should be monitored and should be held accountable. I wish, however, that I'd see Republicans show the same concern for monitoring corporations and holding them accountable for their actions. Over the last 25 years or so, our government has largely abandoned any pretense of balance between the interests of We, the People, and the interests of big business. Regulatory agencies -- often now managed by the same industry insiders they are supposed to regulate -- pursue only the most blatant abuses, with corporate profit concerns overriding the safety and well being of We, the People. While that may be good for next quarter's earnings, it is not good for America as a whole, especially not for the long term.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I hear the port workers clerical union is about to strike on the west coast. They are currently pushing a contract that would result in them earning $56/hr by the end of their contract. Let me type that again. THEY ARE CURRENTLY PUSHING A CONTRACT THAT WOULD RESULT IN THEM EARNING $56/HR BY THE END OF THEIR CONTRACT...FOR CLERICAL WORK!! I'm a college educated software engineer, and I dont make close to that much. Most unions today are about extortion, especially if that unions represent a job force that cant be offshored.

Be very careful in where you get the hourly information like this. The Corp. and media like to put stuff like this out there to mislead the public on how much union workers actually make.

For example: A Ford assembly line worker in the CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) makes around $22 and hour after 1 or 3 years on the line, can't remember all the specific details. Yet, when there's contract issues, it's inevitable that the newspaper will put out an article that says these same workers are making $70 something an hour or some other rediculous such rate.

I won't argue that many unions are corrupt and the Leadership most likely makes too much, however, when I see these high dollar an hour figures thrown out I just laugh...except it's not really funny, because a lot of the public believes it... :(

Chuck

P.S. Yes, I worked in CAP for a summer...believe me when I say, those folks are earning all of the $22 something an hour they're making, your office job is not even remotely close to the conditions they're working in.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Kwaipie
orly? The craftsman unions around my part of the country seem to be doing pretty well for their employees. Journeymen carpenters are making $28 an hour to start, that seems like a pretty fair wage.

I would say that call center/system administration jobs would be far less secure than a union job.

The IBEW, NCUA, Longshoremen, grocers, foodhandlers unions all seem to be doing well here.

Of course, if you want to document your very specific statement, I'll be happy to be surprised.
The ones that are actually working might make $28/hr. The rest of them watch Mexicans do the same work for 1/3 that. Good luck maintaining a union.