Well Crud: IE10M Will Come With Flash

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lifeblood

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
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I fail to see the problem. Flash is going down in popularity but is still needed on many sites. I use my iPad to browse the web and am frequently frustrated by not being able to watch flash content like news clips and such.
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
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lifeblood said:
I fail to see the problem. Flash is going down in popularity but is still needed on many sites. I use my iPad to browse the web and am frequently frustrated by not being able to watch flash content like news clips and such.
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Flash is still the leading vector for drive-by exploits. Furthermore it's also the leading vector for annoying ads. The sooner it dies, the better.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

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Sep 14, 2001
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ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
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Nothinman said:
So does that mean plugins are available or is MS going to try and make IE and Flash "special" in this case too?
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It would appear that Flash is being outright integrated into IE10M. It's not a plugin.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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ViRGE said:
It would appear that Flash is being outright integrated into IE10M. It's not a plugin.
Click to expand...

Unless Adobe completely rebuilds it, it'll still technically be a plugin even if it's embedded in some way like it is in Chrome. But the point is that this is one more point that Google and Mozilla have in their attack on MS for excluding 3rd party browsers.
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Nothinman said:
Unless Adobe completely rebuilds it, it'll still technically be a plugin even if it's embedded in some way like it is in Chrome. But the point is that this is one more point that Google and Mozilla have in their attack on MS for excluding 3rd party browsers.
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Excluded them from where - they can be in the app store?
 
gmaster456

gmaster456

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2011
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Whether we like it or not, we still need flash. It dying in popularity or security concerns are besides the point.
 
D

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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One question is will MS let you disable Flash now that it's "part of the operating system" as a part of IE.

With Firefox and IE8-9 I can disable the Flash plugin from running, and only turn it on when I decide to.
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

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Jun 27, 2004
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Nothinman said:
Not on WinRT they can't as IE is the only browser allowed there. And they don't have access to all of the same APIs that IE does on regular Win8, I believe.
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Everything I've read says that in fact it is banned from "classic" and that a Metro app is allowed.
 
D

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
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According to this week's Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott, Flash can be turned off should you choose not to want to use it. Also, it's not as if every website has Flash enabled, as there is a whitelist.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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dagamer34 said:
According to this week's Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott, Flash can be turned off should you choose not to want to use it. Also, it's not as if every website has Flash enabled, as there is a whitelist.
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Is the whitelist manageable too? I sure don't want MS telling me on which sites I can use certain plugins.
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Nothinman said:
As much as I want to give MS the benefit of the doubt, they seem to be doing everything they can to screw Win8's adoption.
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I'm curious: if they only allow youtube and similar video sites that are known, why is this such an issue for most users? The iPad is selling quite well, and has no flash at all. Is there a chance you're confusing yourself as a power user (with a debian link in their signature), with the general public?
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

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Sep 14, 2001
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RampantAndroid said:
I'm curious: if they only allow youtube and similar video sites that are known, why is this such an issue for most users? The iPad is selling quite well, and has no flash at all. Is there a chance you're confusing yourself as a power user (with a debian link in their signature), with the general public?
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I'm not confusing anything, MS crammed a desktop on their ARM/tablet release but won't let anything but Office on it and restricted the only browser allowed on the ARM/tablet release to IE. People won't understand the reasoning behind either of those decisions because all they'll see is "Windows" and a desktop and expect to be able to run their other Windows apps on it.

And on top of that they restricted VS11 Express to only creating Metro apps and removed the compilers from the Win8 SDK. So the only way to be allowed the privilege of creating a Win8 desktop app is to buy VS11 Pro for $400-$500. That won't directly affect many end users, but it's definitely going to kill a lot of free software on Win8. So much for the "Developers! Developers! Developers!" mantra that got them where they are now.

The main point is that when people see "Windows" they expect to be able to do everything on that device that they could do on all of their past PCs, whether that's rational or not is a side issue. But giving people a Windows PC with a desktop on it and not letting them run anything except Office is just going to make them feel ripped off. Apple gets away with it because their users already expect to not be allowed to do anything except what Apple allows so they don't feel like they've lost anything.
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Nothinman said:
all they'll see is "Windows" and a desktop and expect to be able to run their other Windows apps on it.

So the only way to be allowed the privilege of creating a Win8 desktop app is to buy VS11 Pro for $400-$500.
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On the first point, they won't be able to run their current stuff anyway: touch vs mouse, right? And on top of that, it's ARM, right?

On the second point, it needs to be signed since it's a secure bootloader right? So VS Pro has nothing to do with it?
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

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Sep 14, 2001
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RampantAndroid said:
On the first point, they won't be able to run their current stuff anyway: touch vs mouse, right? And on top of that, it's ARM, right?

On the second point, it needs to be signed since it's a secure bootloader right? So VS Pro has nothing to do with it?
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Apparently Office runs on WinRT so there has to be some desktop mouse support.

Win8 only requires the signed bootloader for the ARM port, it's optional for x86. But that's not the point at all since most apps don't boot, they run inside of the OS.
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Nothinman said:
Win8 only requires the signed bootloader for the ARM port, it's optional for x86. But that's not the point at all since most apps don't boot, they run inside of the OS.
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So you're saying no desktop apps will be allowed for x86 Win8? Am I misreading something?
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

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Sep 14, 2001
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RampantAndroid said:
So you're saying no desktop apps will be allowed for x86 Win8? Am I misreading something?
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No, that's not what I meant at all.

The only way to compile a desktop app using VS11 is to buy the pro version. They gimped VS11 Express and the Win8 SDK so that it only does Metro apps. Developers will still be able to get by with VS10 Express for now, but they'll miss out on any of the new features, compiler enhancements, etc in VS11.

http://arstechnica.com/information-...op-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
 
M

MustISO

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,927
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Not to worry, Windows 8 will be so secure that viruses won't be an issue even through flash.


I'm kidding of course, it'll be a mess...
 
ViRGE

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
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Nothinman said:
No, that's not what I meant at all.

The only way to compile a desktop app using VS11 is to buy the pro version. They gimped VS11 Express and the Win8 SDK so that it only does Metro apps. Developers will still be able to get by with VS10 Express for now, but they'll miss out on any of the new features, compiler enhancements, etc in VS11.

http://arstechnica.com/information-...op-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
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I had not seen that before, so thanks for pointing that out.:|

But has anyone told you that you're a total downer, Nothinman?:p
 
N4g4rok

N4g4rok

Senior member
Sep 21, 2011
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There should be plenty of other ways to get desktop applications out there. If anything, it will force more open source IDEs into the mainstream. I'm assuming even WinARM will support Java, so Java development is still an option.

Still. Seeing the direction Microsoft is taking has me a little nervous. In their attempts to please everyone, they're going to irritate everyone, but mostly the developers who would normally do a lot of outside work to improve windows.
 
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