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Welfare recipients take out cash at strip clubs, liquor stores

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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
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Its the typical crapola argument used to discredit people on welfare. Because if one per4son abuses the welfare system, all of them are is the inconsolable argument.

To start out, In most states its illegal to cash welfare checks at casino's or use welfare money to buy booze or similar products.
No it isn't, it isn't illegal in most states. These people have a right to spend this money as they wish.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Incorruptible, you are claiming massive abuse: Yet, you've done nothing to support that statement.

Dozens, out of 200 MILLION does not equal massive.

And, if you had half a clue, you would realize that we would need to spend MORE money on welfare to fund more people to investigate fraud. While I agree, and I doubt that anyone in this thread disagrees that people shouldn't be abusing the system. But, if it only amounts to dozens out of 200,000,000 transactions, then the cost of fighting that limited abuse would exceed the amount wasted through that abuse.

It's much the same as the marijuana users on welfare in Florida - Florida spent far more money testing people than it saved by finding a few people who used marijuana while on welfare. As such, I don't want them spending $2 of my tax dollars to save $1. Since you appear so burdened by this entire thing, perhaps you'll chip in more of your own money to help fight it. Seriously - donate extra money to the government with a note "please spend this extra money to fight welfare fraud." I mean, if that's the way you really feel about it, then you should be willing to do that. Else, you should shut the hell up about other people staying within the law when they pay their own taxes (and not paying extra out of principle.)
One of the problems is that not all of it is reported so many people say its only around 2% which many believe it isn't.

But even IF it is around 2% the cost of the fraud would amount to around $13.5 BILLION/Year which is a lot since it comes from the taxpayer, now if the the amount is higher then the cost will be much higher.

And many people misunderstand me, I dont want to spend more money on monitoring/controlling welfare, I dont understand how anyone could be foolish enough to believe that since I am very critical of government spending. I do believe there is welfare abuse but the solution isn't to spend more money on verification or whatever else but it is to end welfare completely. Welfare only encourages people to stay on welfare, why work when I can get the government to pay for it, As well many of the people who are living in `poverty` have cellphones and tv`s , this doesn't sound like people who are really in poverty. The measure that is used for poverty isn't accurate so it makes it look like more people are in poverty then there actually is.

End welfare and for the supporters of welfare let them donate their own money to charities which would do a much better job than the government and could actually help people. End the income tax as well and give the money back to people and then they can take their own money and donate it if thats their choice.

Also the welfare system is not sustainable, way too many people are on it for long periods of time and dont have any incentive to get a job, not to mention it costs billions of dollars and the costs will keep going up. Medicare alone will cost trillions- http://reason.com/blog/2010/11/19/happy-birthday-medicare-part-d

Finally corporate welfare is still welfare and costs over $100 billion, this is crony Capitalism and I consider this fraud, so technically there is `massive welfare fraud` its just a lot harder to find proof for individual welfare than corporate welfare
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,602
3,108
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End welfare and for the supporters of welfare let them donate their own money to charities which would do a much better job than the government and could actually help people. End the income tax as well and give the money back to people and then they can take their own money and donate it if thats their choice.
Thats is a lot of BS and you know it!! shame on you....
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
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The EBT cards nerd to be coded such that they are not available for ATM use and also limited to type of goods purchased.
EBT card are used for Welfare money, it is suppose to be money for the people to spend as they please, it isn't just for the SNAP program.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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Incorruptible, you are claiming massive abuse: Yet, you've done nothing to support that statement.

Dozens, out of 200 MILLION does not equal massive.

And, if you had half a clue, you would realize that we would need to spend MORE money on welfare to fund more people to investigate fraud. While I agree, and I doubt that anyone in this thread disagrees that people shouldn't be abusing the system. But, if it only amounts to dozens out of 200,000,000 transactions, then the cost of fighting that limited abuse would exceed the amount wasted through that abuse.
That was dozens at just one one ATM, dozens of cash withdrawals at ATMs inside Hank’s Saloon in Brooklyn and the very reason for the EBT cards is due to the massive amounts of welfare fraud and illegal purachases that was being made.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
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What about someone on SSI should we dictate how they spend their money? What about SSDI or Social Security maybe we should dictate who that gets spent too. What you are doing is setting up a dangerous precedent.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
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Should this people be able to pay for cable or sat service? Should they be able to get a HD TV, who will decide what these people can and cannot spend their money on. Will you get to decide?
 

sourn

Senior member
Dec 26, 2012
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There is massive abuse, read the rest of the thread. Where do you think the money for these welfare leeches comes from? It comes from taxpayers, I dont want to pay taxes for this crap. As well its to get more votes so people are more reliant on government.

I will advocate people be thrown out of the country when they steal my tax dollars
So what you're saying is you want all politicians thrown out of the country.

Shit I'm with you on that one.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
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Should this people be able to pay for cable or sat service? Should they be able to get a HD TV, who will decide what these people can and cannot spend their money on. Will you get to decide?
No they shouldn't, if they are on welfare then they should be using that money to pay for the basics necessary to survive, not buying a HDTV or making payments on their Cadillac or buying a eight ball of blow.

Slippery slope or not allowing these people to spend this cash "as they wish" is ridiculous and just opens the door for abuse which is what we are seeing, in a time like now when you're asking the middle class to pay for programs such as this through higher fees/taxes you don't think there will be more scrutiny.

Same thing with social security, I can't tell you how many people I used to see going in there with their cashed check using most of it to buy liquor and lottery tickets, it was disgusting.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Finally corporate welfare is still welfare and costs over $100 billion, this is crony Capitalism and I consider this fraud, so technically there is `massive welfare fraud` its just a lot harder to find proof for individual welfare than corporate welfare
Most corporate "welfare" is not welfare but more equivalent to the Mortgage interest deduction. Funny how I have never heard that called "welfare"...

Basically the US sets it up so that we has one of the highest marginal corporate income tax in the world and then gives deductions to bring it more in line with the rest of the world. That isn't welfare.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,917
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ostif.org
It is much more than a "small percentage" There is massive abuse of this.

The pos obama supports welfare since his ideology is flawed and it makes people more dependent on the government, hence more votes
Read your own thread / article? dozens out of 200 million is not widespread, or even a problem.

What a non-issue... Go back to bitching about drug policy reform or nation building. At least those are issues that have debate at the table.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
26,366
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Read your own thread / article? dozens out of 200 million is not widespread, or even a problem.

What a non-issue... Go back to bitching about drug policy reform or nation building. At least those are issues that have debate at the table.
and compared to the billions "lost" in Iraq this is a real outrage
 

basslover1

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2004
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No they shouldn't, if they are on welfare then they should be using that money to pay for the basics necessary to survive, not buying a HDTV or making payments on their Cadillac or buying a eight ball of blow.

Slippery slope or not allowing these people to spend this cash "as they wish" is ridiculous and just opens the door for abuse which is what we are seeing, in a time like now when you're asking the middle class to pay for programs such as this through higher fees/taxes you don't think there will be more scrutiny.

Same thing with social security, I can't tell you how many people I used to see going in there with their cashed check using most of it to buy liquor and lottery tickets, it was disgusting.
Yes, how dare a person who paid into social security their entire working lives, use that money after retirement to spend as they see fit. Disgusting.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Nov 29, 2006
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This is why the government just needs to ship food to the people. The bare necessities like crackers or something. They can get water from the tap :p
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,211
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Exactly - Dozens out of 200 million. Even if they find 50 instances......that only 0.00000025%.

BFD.
Read your own thread / article? dozens out of 200 million is not widespread, or even a problem.

What a non-issue... Go back to bitching about drug policy reform or nation building. At least those are issues that have debate at the table.
To be fair - it was only dozens reported at those locations so the article is very unclear about how widespread the abuse is. It does make me wonder why they only reported on those 'dozens' though. Was this only NY records? Did they just go through the 200M with certain key words that would have missed other cities/states/withdrawals? Was this all they could find?

However there is not enough information either way to make an informed decision from this article. Lots of lazy/shitty journalism these days...

The EBT cards need to be coded such that they are not available for ATM use and also limited to type of goods purchased.
:thumbsup: Even then though I'm not sure you can prevent most abuse. You're really just shifting the spend - like the guy I was behind in Kroger on Sat. Had his WIC stuff and then paid for his 3 bottles of liquor, 24 pack of natty ice and 5 packs of cigarettes with cash
 
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lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Yes, how dare a person who paid into social security their entire working lives, use that money after retirement to spend as they see fit. Disgusting.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yeah kind of odd freedom only matters when someone is doing something he agrees with.

If they want to blow the entire check on booze and lotto, they are "free" to do it.
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
2,371
0
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Because of the drunk driving idiots out there that cause major accidents every year, we should get rid of driving and motor vehicles all together.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
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86
The problem really is that the cards can be used for anything - there are no system checks to ensure what is being rung up is legit for people on the public dole.

People are people...except for a very small % few, most people are going to consume what they can get. If that means they want Pepsi and Cheetos via their public handout, they're going to consume that unless society sets up the system to not allow them to consume that - at least via the public funds.

The system itself needs to be setup to pay for things like water, bulk beef/chicken, vegetables, appropriately designated canned goods, generics, etc. (and by etc. I don't mean some Bleeding Heart throwing in Pepsi and Cheetos because 'they can feel like they're part of society sniff sniff' bs).

I live in an area with fairly high use of Links cards. In the vast majority of cases, I've never seen them used properly*.

*: Properly, as in, how they should be required to be used, not the "properly" that The System says is legit, and then bases their abuse/misuse numbers off of, so they can claim that abuse/misuse is '1%' or 'extremely low'.

That people are misusing/abusing isn't even the big issue (that should be expected). The large issue is: Why are our Politicians allowing these systems to be setup in such a way as to allow for abuse? Not sure people would like the answer to that one...

Chuck
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
2,371
0
0
The problem really is that the cards can be used for anything - there are no system checks to ensure what is being rung up is legit for people on the public dole.

People are people...except for a very small % few, most people are going to consume what they can get. If that means they want Pepsi and Cheetos via their public handout, they're going to consume that unless society sets up the system to not allow them to consume that - at least via the public funds.

The system itself needs to be setup to pay for things like water, bulk beef/chicken, vegetables, appropriately designated canned goods, generics, etc. (and by etc. I don't mean some Bleeding Heart throwing in Pepsi and Cheetos because 'they can feel like they're part of society sniff sniff' bs).

I live in an area with fairly high use of Links cards. In the vast majority of cases, I've never seen them used properly*.

*: Properly, as in, how they should be required to be used, not the "properly" that The System says is legit, and then bases their abuse/misuse numbers off of, so they can claim that abuse/misuse is '1%' or 'extremely low'.

That people are misusing/abusing isn't even the big issue (that should be expected). The large issue is: Why are our Politicians allowing these systems to be setup in such a way as to allow for abuse? Not sure people would like the answer to that one...

Chuck
When I was younger, my family was on Welfare and food stamps. Are we not doing that anymore? I remember not being able to purchase anything beyond the necessary marked items with food stamps. Who thought it was a good idea to let aide money be used for all purchases?
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Yeah kind of odd freedom only matters when someone is doing something he agrees with.

If they want to blow the entire check on booze and lotto, they are "free" to do it.
Well if we are going to start regulating everything why not....

It would be one thing if the people I saw spending their SS money on booze or whatever had tons to go around and it was just a buffer, but from where I was standing at the time it really didn't seem that way...

Regardless the issue is more to do with welfare than SS anyway....
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
When I was younger, my family was on Welfare and food stamps. Are we not doing that anymore? I remember not being able to purchase anything beyond the necessary marked items with food stamps. Who thought it was a good idea to let aide money be used for all purchases?
Let me answer you this way, as a perfect illustration of how F'd up the Politicians have allowed (and personally I'd say mandated, I'm sure unofficially so as to CYA) the adminstrators of these systems to implement them:

My dad was with my mom at Sams Club one day. He wanted to get ribs, which Sams had in a plastic pack, 2 or 3 slabs to a pack. Upon picking up the pack he saw it was $30 or something like that, and said F that, not going to pay that much for ribs from Sams.

Fast forward to checkout line. They're standing in one line, 3 women standing next to them in another line. In their cart, it had many many packages of these ribs (the cart was full of rib packages). Oldest lady opens her wallet, in it are 3 Links cards. She points to one of them, the next oldest woman shakes her head No. She points to another Links card, she shakes her head No. Oldest lady takes out 3rd Links card, pays for the cart full of ribs with (one) of her Links cards.

If that's not abuse/misuse of public welfare, I don't know what is.

Chuck
 

tgferg67

Member
Oct 23, 2002
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The benefits are calculated by some formula/criteria. If some bum wants to spend all their benefits on on vices and live on the street how can you stop them?

Drop in the bucket compared to the defense budget.
 
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