Welcome Home, Troop

[Perknose]

War sucks. Up close, it is dirty and ugly, mind-bending and soul-sapping. Vietnam was all that and more. Over 50,000 young Americans never made it back home, and for what?

But, at least we Americans go to the ends of the earth to bring the bodies of the fallen back to home and hearth, and, say what you want about the blood and sin of the rest of it, this is a good thing.

The Department of Defense POW/Missing Personnel Office (DPMO) announced today that the remains of a serviceman, killed in action during the Vietnam War, have been identified and will be returned to his family for burial with full military honors.

Army Capt. James M. Johnstone, of Baton Rouge, La., will be buried Dec. 12, in Arlington National Cemetery. On Nov. 19, 1966, Johnstone was the pilot of an OV-1A Mohawk aircraft that crashed while conducting a daytime reconnaissance mission over Attapu Province, Laos. Nearby U.S. aircrews reported seeing the wing of Johnstone’s aircraft hit a tree during a climb to avoid a nearby ridgeline. No parachutes were seen exiting the aircraft. Heavy enemy presence in the area prevented recovery efforts.

From 1993 to 2009, joint U.S.-Lao People’s Democratic Republic (L.P.D.R.) teams, led by the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command (JPAC), interviewed multiple witnesses, and conducted several investigations and excavations of the crash site in Attapu Province. The teams located human remains, military equipment, an identification card bearing Johnstone’s name, and aircraft wreckage of an OV-1A, which correlated with the last known location of Johnstone’s aircraft.

To identify the remains, scientists from JPAC analyzed circumstantial evidence and used forensic identification tools, such as dental comparisons.

Today, the U.S. government continues to work closely with the governments of Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to recover Americans lost during the Vietnam War.

 

[techs]

Maybe its just me but I would tell my family and friends and fellow soldiers not to risk their lives or even go to any kind of extraordinary lenghths to find my body.

Once I am gone it really doesn't matter to me where I am buried.

 

[Perknose]

Maybe its just me but I would tell my family and friends and fellow soldiers not to risk their lives or even go to any kind of extraordinary lenghths to find my body.

Once I am gone it really doesn't matter to me where I am buried.

It's closure for the family. Primitive, maybe, but real enough.

 

[Double Trouble]

It's closure for the family. Primitive, maybe, but real enough.

This. Obviously nothing matters to the person who's already gone, this is done out of respect for the family of those who sacrifice for the country.

No matter how misguided some of our international military escapades may be, I appreciate the fact that the government does everything it can to bring everyone home. :thumbsup:

 

[Nintendesert]

Maybe its just me but I would tell my family and friends and fellow soldiers not to risk their lives or even go to any kind of extraordinary lenghths to find my body.

Once I am gone it really doesn't matter to me where I am buried.

Were you in any of the Armed Services?

 

[Lemon law]

I think Perknose is right here, there is something some how correct to identify the remains of American Service members who died in Combat. Now possible with modern DNA technology and other older technology tools such as dental records. As Perknose somewhat forgot to mention a link I recently read, that thanks to the long efforts of an American Congressman, there is now a full court press to identify the bodies killed at Pearl Harbor. Now really just starting 72 years afterwards.

At the same time I can understand the arguments of other posters, who say, once they become hypothetically dead, in some futile war. That dead is dead, and why should the dead care what happens to their bodies after their bodies are too damaged to live due to war. Where the war mantra of both sides become, murder is not only permissible, its desirable. But again I think Perknose wins that argument, because identifying the American dead brings closure to those still living relatives of American Servicemen and women. As they longer have to wonder and live in torment over the possibility their missing relatives might be still alive and are being tortured in some foreign prisoner of war camp.

But still I come away from this thread with a strong sense of total American hypocrisy

Lets just take the Vietnam war for example. As the USA side lost 58,000 American lives, and the remains of some of the people I went to High school with are nothing but a name carved in some black granite wall in Washington DC. On the other hand, some 2 million Vietnamese were lost. What does the US government do to bring closure to the Vietnamese families who lost their lives. As many of those 2 million Vietnamese fought for our side. Or were merely collateral damage. As our former enemies are willing to help identify American bodies long after the war is over, but there seems to be no co-commitment US effort to bring closure to other foreign families.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Its basic US doctrine, never leave anyone behind ever. They will always come back, our enemy's should fear that. In this case they're no longer enemies and I appreciate how they are assisting in tracking remains

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Were you in any of the Armed Services?

Of course not, he expects others to make that sacrifice.

 

[Greenman]

It's closure for the family. Primitive, maybe, but real enough.

It's also respect for a fallen warrior. It's proper that he be honored for his sacrifice.

 

[Lemon law]

Of course not, he expects others to make that sacrifice.

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The problem with your argument Lundo, is how many American Service men and women were duped into making that sacrifice. And the other American servicemen who were duped into making that sacrifice and who lived to tell the tale. Some of those that lived to tell the tale emerged unscathed but emerged totally disillusioned, others emerged totally disabled for life, and many others emerged with what we now call post combat syndrome that can also do life time damage.

Or we can compare Vietnam to Iraq, and say ya hooray, in Vietnam we lost only 58,000, and the USA side only lost 4500 KIA in Iraq. But still we can attribute that wondrous advance to better USA medical responses. In Vietnam, if a combat soldier was seriously wounded, they usually just died. And now in Iraq, the US medical response is much faster and better, and the chances of surviving a major wound is much much better. As a result, for every US combat soldier who died, there are now ten who will emerge totally disabled, unable to work, and total drains on the US treasury. Which does not even count all the victims of PSD. That can be equally debilitating.

As for Londo, I reserve most of my hate and outrage at the old politicians and war mongers, who for fun and profit, send young men and women off to die or get lifetime disabled, when they have the collective sense of an amoeba. And accomplish zero positive in their collective stupidity. As they are the cause and not the solution to future conflicts.

As ole five deferment Dick Cheney is typical of the breed. But why be Partisan when we can mention LBJ, Nixon, and all those chicken hawks who still bankrupt the American economy. And accomplish zero positive in the end.

 

[Fayd]

I think Perknose is right here, there is something some how correct to identify the remains of American Service members who died in Combat. Now possible with modern DNA technology and other older technology tools such as dental records. As Perknose somewhat forgot to mention a link I recently read, that thanks to the long efforts of an American Congressman, there is now a full court press to identify the bodies killed at Pearl Harbor. Now really just starting 72 years afterwards.

At the same time I can understand the arguments of other posters, who say, once they become hypothetically dead, in some futile war. That dead is dead, and why should the dead care what happens to their bodies after their bodies are too damaged to live due to war. Where the war mantra of both sides become, murder is not only permissible, its desirable. But again I think Perknose wins that argument, because identifying the American dead brings closure to those still living relatives of American Servicemen and women. As they longer have to wonder and live in torment over the possibility their missing relatives might be still alive and are being tortured in some foreign prisoner of war camp.

But still I come away from this thread with a strong sense of total American hypocrisy

Lets just take the Vietnam war for example. As the USA side lost 58,000 American lives, and the remains of some of the people I went to High school with are nothing but a name carved in some black granite wall in Washington DC. On the other hand, some 2 million Vietnamese were lost. What does the US government do to bring closure to the Vietnamese families who lost their lives. As many of those 2 million Vietnamese fought for our side. Or were merely collateral damage. As our former enemies are willing to help identify American bodies long after the war is over, but there seems to be no co-commitment US effort to bring closure to other foreign families.

the bodies are on their soil. what do you expect us to do about it?

 

[benzylic]

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The problem with your argument Lundo, is how many American Service men and women were duped into making that sacrifice. And the other American servicemen who were duped into making that sacrifice and who lived to tell the tale. Some of those that lived to tell the tale emerged unscathed but emerged totally disillusioned, others emerged totally disabled for life, and many others emerged with what we now call post combat syndrome that can also do life time damage.

Or we can compare Vietnam to Iraq, and say ya hooray, in Vietnam we lost only 58,000, and the USA side only lost 4500 KIA in Iraq. But still we can attribute that wondrous advance to better USA medical responses. In Vietnam, if a combat soldier was seriously wounded, they usually just died. And now in Iraq, the US medical response is much faster and better, and the chances of surviving a major wound is much much better. As a result, for every US combat soldier who died, there are now ten who will emerge totally disabled, unable to work, and total drains on the US treasury. Which does not even count all the victims of PSD. That can be equally debilitating.

As for Londo, I reserve most of my hate and outrage at the old politicians and war mongers, who for fun and profit, send young men and women off to die or get lifetime disabled, when they have the collective sense of an amoeba. And accomplish zero positive in their collective stupidity. As they are the cause and not the solution to future conflicts.

As ole five deferment Dick Cheney is typical of the breed. But why be Partisan when we can mention LBJ, Nixon, and all those chicken hawks who still bankrupt the American economy. And accomplish zero positive in the end.

Absolutely false. Of the soldiers that were hospitalized (the study considers these the seriously wounded) in Vietnam 77% lived. In Iraq its up to 81%. Among all wounded hospitalized and not hospitalized 87/90% surivived in Vietnam, and Iraq respectively. SOURCE pg 223

Also according to this the mortality rates for those who made it to and were admitted to a hospital in Vietnam was just 2.6%. http://www.history.army.mil/books/Vietnam/MedSpt/chpt3.htm