Weightlifters: Do you push to failure on each set?

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Descartes

A question for those that do go to failure. If you're doing major compound work, how do you go to failure on the first few sets and not fatigue yourself for the rest? For example, if you're doing 9-12 sets for chest, if you go to failure on the first 6 do you keep the same weight for the final few sets? Just curious. I find my intensity has a diminishing return depending on how complete I am with the failure on the first several.

Long breaks in between sets. 12 sets is WAY too many on chest alone. 9 sets is pushing it and should be the most you do.. I do 12-15 for both chest and triceps on chest day.

When you work to failure you need to minimize everything else.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what if you just want to gain strength? Same method as gaining muscles?

What do you mean? Do you think if you are gaining strength , you can do that without increasing muscle tissue making it more dense? (getting more muscle)

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

Any good links on proper lifting form?

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

Any good links on proper lifting form?

t-nation.com

And, since when did +6 (12?) reps become low reps and heavy?? The highest I would ever say low reps is 4.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

A question for those that do go to failure. If you're doing major compound work, how do you go to failure on the first few sets and not fatigue yourself for the rest? For example, if you're doing 9-12 sets for chest, if you go to failure on the first 6 do you keep the same weight for the final few sets? Just curious. I find my intensity has a diminishing return depending on how complete I am with the failure on the first several.

Long breaks in between sets. 12 sets is WAY too many on chest alone. 9 sets is pushing it and should be the most you do.. I do 12-15 for both chest and triceps on chest day.

When you work to failure you need to minimize everything else.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

Any good links on proper lifting form?

Most comprehensive site on the web:

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

Any good links on proper lifting form?

Most comprehensive site on the web:

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

Bookmarked :thumbsup:

 

[Maxspeed996]

Originally posted by: platinumike

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Intensity you do not have to worry about, just make sure you give yourself enough time to recover.

As for the failure thing, it depends on what type of program you want to do and what your goals are.

My goal is to just get big and muscular, Im eating alot, and trying to gain weight. Tone is good but I know I have to get big first before I get tone.[/q]

That is one of the biggest misconceptions there is. Lets stop for a minute and think about this. I'm trying to gain "weight" (what kind of weight? Fat? Muscle?) go back to my earlier post and read what I said about this "Blanket statment" that people use when they get into working out. You do NOT want to gain WEIGHT. You want to gain LEAN MASS , or MUSCLE. You don't just put on a bunch of weight and turn it into muscle....Fat does not turn into muscle , much to the chagrin to the overweight people out there. You BUILD MUSCLE TISSUE THROUGH DIET , AND EXERCISE , AND REST.
you need to identify your goals. Do you want to be a big guy for your size. Or do you want to be defined. with a balanced phisique?
It sounds to me like the later , you want to be bigger , but you want it to be "defined" chisled , balanced.
This requires a balanced diet. A good start is your protein / carb intake. If you want to get the most growth as soon as possible. (and you need to do more homework , because I'm not going to go into everything!!) A good point to put in your head , is that you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight you weigh. EVERY DAY. In order to adequately have enough available proteins and amino acids for your body to Generate , and repair damaged muscle tissue. If you are working out hard , and not getting enough. The first thing your body will burn up is the hard earned muscle for fuel. It's metabolized faster than fat. You need to keep the muscle you have , and add more.
Here is a litte tid bit fact.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of fat , it only needs 1 calorie per hour to keep it.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of muscle it needs 50 calories per hour to keep it.

By adding 10 lbs of muscle to your frame , you are increasing your bodies metabolic rate by 500 more calories. IE. your body will be burning more calories just sitting around. Which will help you to lose any of that other fat you are trying to lose. But that is where diet will make or break you.

 

[Scarpozzi]

No....lately, I've been lifting without a spot. It's caused me to be somewhat reluctant.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

Originally posted by: platinumike

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Intensity you do not have to worry about, just make sure you give yourself enough time to recover.

As for the failure thing, it depends on what type of program you want to do and what your goals are.

My goal is to just get big and muscular, Im eating alot, and trying to gain weight. Tone is good but I know I have to get big first before I get tone.[/q]

That is one of the biggest misconceptions there is. Lets stop for a minute and think about this. I'm trying to gain "weight" (what kind of weight? Fat? Muscle?) go back to my earlier post and read what I said about this "Blanket statment" that people use when they get into working out. You do NOT want to gain WEIGHT. You want to gain LEAN MASS , or MUSCLE. You don't just put on a bunch of weight and turn it into muscle....Fat does not turn into muscle , much to the chagrin to the overweight people out there. You BUILD MUSCLE TISSUE THROUGH DIET , AND EXERCISE , AND REST.
you need to identify your goals. Do you want to be a big guy for your size. Or do you want to be defined. with a balanced phisique?
It sounds to me like the later , you want to be bigger , but you want it to be "defined" chisled , balanced.
This requires a balanced diet. A good start is your protein / carb intake. If you want to get the most growth as soon as possible. (and you need to do more homework , because I'm not going to go into everything!!) A good point to put in your head , is that you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight you weigh. EVERY DAY. In order to adequately have enough available proteins and amino acids for your body to Generate , and repair damaged muscle tissue. If you are working out hard , and not getting enough. The first thing your body will burn up is the hard earned muscle for fuel. It's metabolized faster than fat. You need to keep the muscle you have , and add more.
Here is a litte tid bit fact.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of fat , it only needs 1 calorie per hour to keep it.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of muscle it needs 50 calories per hour to keep it.

By adding 10 lbs of muscle to your frame , you are increasing your bodies metabolic rate by 500 more calories. IE. your body will be burning more calories just sitting around. Which will help you to lose any of that other fat you are trying to lose. But that is where diet will make or break you.

Dude he isn't a n00b, you can stop with your basic stuff, stop trying to sound like you're an expert, because it's obvious you are not.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Ktulu
How do you guys push to failure while avoiding injury. Everytime I start lifting again I always end up pulling some muscle and all my work is gone to waist.

As others will probably say, you're likely pushing too much weight and using improper form.

Exactly. Form is paramount. If your form fails, you have failed and you need to rack the bar.

Any good links on proper lifting form?

Most comprehensive site on the web:

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

That is a good site for beggininers, when he gets more experienced though he needs to fine tune his form with the little stuff that site doesn't mention.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

That is a good site for beggininers, when he gets more experienced though he needs to fine tune his form with the little stuff that site doesn't mention.

Even for the advanced lifter, sometimes a return to basic form is a good thing.

 

[CrazyShiz]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

Originally posted by: platinumike

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Intensity you do not have to worry about, just make sure you give yourself enough time to recover.

As for the failure thing, it depends on what type of program you want to do and what your goals are.

My goal is to just get big and muscular, Im eating alot, and trying to gain weight. Tone is good but I know I have to get big first before I get tone.[/q]

That is one of the biggest misconceptions there is. Lets stop for a minute and think about this. I'm trying to gain "weight" (what kind of weight? Fat? Muscle?) go back to my earlier post and read what I said about this "Blanket statment" that people use when they get into working out. You do NOT want to gain WEIGHT. You want to gain LEAN MASS , or MUSCLE. You don't just put on a bunch of weight and turn it into muscle....Fat does not turn into muscle , much to the chagrin to the overweight people out there. You BUILD MUSCLE TISSUE THROUGH DIET , AND EXERCISE , AND REST.
you need to identify your goals. Do you want to be a big guy for your size. Or do you want to be defined. with a balanced phisique?
It sounds to me like the later , you want to be bigger , but you want it to be "defined" chisled , balanced.
This requires a balanced diet. A good start is your protein / carb intake. If you want to get the most growth as soon as possible. (and you need to do more homework , because I'm not going to go into everything!!) A good point to put in your head , is that you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight you weigh. EVERY DAY. In order to adequately have enough available proteins and amino acids for your body to Generate , and repair damaged muscle tissue. If you are working out hard , and not getting enough. The first thing your body will burn up is the hard earned muscle for fuel. It's metabolized faster than fat. You need to keep the muscle you have , and add more.
Here is a litte tid bit fact.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of fat , it only needs 1 calorie per hour to keep it.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of muscle it needs 50 calories per hour to keep it.

By adding 10 lbs of muscle to your frame , you are increasing your bodies metabolic rate by 500 more calories. IE. your body will be burning more calories just sitting around. Which will help you to lose any of that other fat you are trying to lose. But that is where diet will make or break you.

Dude he isn't a n00b, you can stop with your basic stuff, stop trying to sound like you're an expert, because it's obvious you are not.

You'd be surprised by how many people don't know these basics...

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

That is a good site for beggininers, when he gets more experienced though he needs to fine tune his form with the little stuff that site doesn't mention.

Even for the advanced lifter, sometimes a return to basic form is a good thing.

Quite true, I still use that site for recommendations on how to do a new core exercise or something. It is a great site.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

Originally posted by: platinumike

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Intensity you do not have to worry about, just make sure you give yourself enough time to recover.

As for the failure thing, it depends on what type of program you want to do and what your goals are.

My goal is to just get big and muscular, Im eating alot, and trying to gain weight. Tone is good but I know I have to get big first before I get tone.[/q]

That is one of the biggest misconceptions there is. Lets stop for a minute and think about this. I'm trying to gain "weight" (what kind of weight? Fat? Muscle?) go back to my earlier post and read what I said about this "Blanket statment" that people use when they get into working out. You do NOT want to gain WEIGHT. You want to gain LEAN MASS , or MUSCLE. You don't just put on a bunch of weight and turn it into muscle....Fat does not turn into muscle , much to the chagrin to the overweight people out there. You BUILD MUSCLE TISSUE THROUGH DIET , AND EXERCISE , AND REST.
you need to identify your goals. Do you want to be a big guy for your size. Or do you want to be defined. with a balanced phisique?
It sounds to me like the later , you want to be bigger , but you want it to be "defined" chisled , balanced.
This requires a balanced diet. A good start is your protein / carb intake. If you want to get the most growth as soon as possible. (and you need to do more homework , because I'm not going to go into everything!!) A good point to put in your head , is that you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight you weigh. EVERY DAY. In order to adequately have enough available proteins and amino acids for your body to Generate , and repair damaged muscle tissue. If you are working out hard , and not getting enough. The first thing your body will burn up is the hard earned muscle for fuel. It's metabolized faster than fat. You need to keep the muscle you have , and add more.
Here is a litte tid bit fact.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of fat , it only needs 1 calorie per hour to keep it.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of muscle it needs 50 calories per hour to keep it.

By adding 10 lbs of muscle to your frame , you are increasing your bodies metabolic rate by 500 more calories. IE. your body will be burning more calories just sitting around. Which will help you to lose any of that other fat you are trying to lose. But that is where diet will make or break you.

Dude he isn't a n00b, you can stop with your basic stuff, stop trying to sound like you're an expert, because it's obvious you are not.

First of all , I never claimed to be an expert. Only experienced in the field.
Second , if you are using a computer tech forum to gain information on working out , he may not be a NooB , but he's definately needing some guidance.

3rd. just to cover all bases , the web is a good spot to gain info on this subject. But lets face it , you don't see Dorian Yates , Lee Haney , Nasser El Sonabaty , or any of the greats asking for help on the web , they are going to the people who KNOW the people in the gym. I'm just trying to point the guy in the right direction. Sorry if you feel that your "expertise" is being trampled upon. Telling someone to not worry about intensity , is like telling someone to throw away a major part of a good weight training regimen. I can honestly say , you are going to see the best results , and continue to get gains by changing your training style every 4-6 weeks. This will get you the benifits of each "Style" while not allowing your body to become accustomed to the stress of it.

Positive advice is the only thing that you will get from me. Saying nothing on the subject would be like having him go ahead , and just eat a ton of ****** , gain about 30 pounds and go to the gym because then I can turn it all into muscle. Whatever , the reason he's asking the question "do you go to failure" in the first place is because he's looking for some very basic information on a training principle.
Volumetric , Concentric , High Intensity , Low Intensity are all different principles that utilize the same basic concepts in working out. Pointing someone in the right direction must be a problem for you with this kind of attitude.

So with that in mind.....*huh huh....how much can you bench? huh huh?

 

[Maxspeed996]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I thought I'd point out that this thread is where I got most of my information about going to failure. You can see it's fairly divided, but there is research in that thread that you can use to educate yourself as much as possible.

A question for those that do go to failure. If you're doing major compound work, how do you go to failure on the first few sets and not fatigue yourself for the rest? For example, if you're doing 9-12 sets for chest, if you go to failure on the first 6 do you keep the same weight for the final few sets? Just curious. I find my intensity has a diminishing return depending on how complete I am with the failure on the first several.

good discussion here , and invaluable information. Good Link!!

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

Originally posted by: platinumike

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
Intensity you do not have to worry about, just make sure you give yourself enough time to recover.

As for the failure thing, it depends on what type of program you want to do and what your goals are.

My goal is to just get big and muscular, Im eating alot, and trying to gain weight. Tone is good but I know I have to get big first before I get tone.[/q]

That is one of the biggest misconceptions there is. Lets stop for a minute and think about this. I'm trying to gain "weight" (what kind of weight? Fat? Muscle?) go back to my earlier post and read what I said about this "Blanket statment" that people use when they get into working out. You do NOT want to gain WEIGHT. You want to gain LEAN MASS , or MUSCLE. You don't just put on a bunch of weight and turn it into muscle....Fat does not turn into muscle , much to the chagrin to the overweight people out there. You BUILD MUSCLE TISSUE THROUGH DIET , AND EXERCISE , AND REST.
you need to identify your goals. Do you want to be a big guy for your size. Or do you want to be defined. with a balanced phisique?
It sounds to me like the later , you want to be bigger , but you want it to be "defined" chisled , balanced.
This requires a balanced diet. A good start is your protein / carb intake. If you want to get the most growth as soon as possible. (and you need to do more homework , because I'm not going to go into everything!!) A good point to put in your head , is that you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight you weigh. EVERY DAY. In order to adequately have enough available proteins and amino acids for your body to Generate , and repair damaged muscle tissue. If you are working out hard , and not getting enough. The first thing your body will burn up is the hard earned muscle for fuel. It's metabolized faster than fat. You need to keep the muscle you have , and add more.
Here is a litte tid bit fact.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of fat , it only needs 1 calorie per hour to keep it.
For your body to maintain 1 lb. of muscle it needs 50 calories per hour to keep it.

By adding 10 lbs of muscle to your frame , you are increasing your bodies metabolic rate by 500 more calories. IE. your body will be burning more calories just sitting around. Which will help you to lose any of that other fat you are trying to lose. But that is where diet will make or break you.

Dude he isn't a n00b, you can stop with your basic stuff, stop trying to sound like you're an expert, because it's obvious you are not.

First of all , I never claimed to be an expert. Only experienced in the field.
Second , if you are using a computer tech forum to gain information on working out , he may not be a NooB , but he's definately needing some guidance.

3rd. just to cover all bases , the web is a good spot to gain info on this subject. But lets face it , you don't see Dorian Yates , Lee Haney , Nasser El Sonabaty , or any of the greats asking for help on the web , they are going to the people who KNOW the people in the gym. I'm just trying to point the guy in the right direction. Sorry if you feel that your "expertise" is being trampled upon. Telling someone to not worry about intensity , is like telling someone to throw away a major part of a good weight training regimen. I can honestly say , you are going to see the best results , and continue to get gains by changing your training style every 4-6 weeks. This will get you the benifits of each "Style" while not allowing your body to become accustomed to the stress of it.

Positive advice is the only thing that you will get from me. Saying nothing on the subject would be like having him go ahead , and just eat a ton of ****** , gain about 30 pounds and go to the gym because then I can turn it all into muscle. Whatever , the reason he's asking the question "do you go to failure" in the first place is because he's looking for some very basic information on a training principle.
Volumetric , Concentric , High Intensity , Low Intensity are all different principles that utilize the same basic concepts in working out. Pointing someone in the right direction must be a problem for you with this kind of attitude.

So with that in mind.....*huh huh....how much can you bench? huh huh?

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
of attitude.

So with that in mind.....*huh huh....how much can you bench? huh huh?

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Your pretty strong. Before my shoulder injury I was doing sets of 315 on the flat bench (obviously my form was off or I wouldn't have fscked up my shoulder) Since my injury I've cut a lot of weight (35 lbs) so my strength isn't what it use to be but I'm much better defined which I prefer over being stronger yet bulkier. I still lift till failure but I always do at least 40 minutes of heart pumping cardio afterwards (I do cardio 7 days a week when possible) which tends to inhibit muscle growth but it also leaned me out significantly. These days I don't give a sh!t if I can lift more than I did a week before, in fact I'm more interested in being able to push myself harder with my cardio afterwards.

A side note, I'm 52 and I believe the being lean and muscular is more important for my health than being strong and bulky. It took me 3 months to drop the 35 lbs so it didn't come off easily so I'm not interested in bulking up and cutting anymore, it's too much of a bitch to do..at least for me at my age. I can't imagine it getting any easier as i get older.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Wtf? I'll never be able to bench that much.

You might have posted this in another thread, but what are your stats (measurements, height, weight, bf%, etc.)? Just curious.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
of attitude.

So with that in mind.....*huh huh....how much can you bench? huh huh?

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Your pretty strong. Before my shoulder injury I was doing sets of 315 on the flat bench (obviously my form was off or I wouldn't have fscked up my shoulder) Since my injury I've cut a lot of weight (35 lbs) so my strength isn't what it use to be but I'm much better defined which I prefer over being stronger yet bulkier. I still lift till failure but I always do at least 40 minutes of heart pumping cardio afterwards (I do cardio 7 days a week when possible) which tends to inhibit muscle growth but it also leaned me out significantly. These days I don't give a sh!t if I can lift more than I did a week before, in fact I'm more interested in being able to push myself harder with my cardio afterwards.

A side note, I'm 52 and I believe the being lean and muscular is more important for my health than being strong and bulky. It took me 3 months to drop the 35 lbs so it didn't come off easily so I'm not interested in bulking up and cutting anymore, it's too much of a bitch to do..at least for me at my age. I can't imagine it getting any easier as i get older.

That's awesome. I do know what you mean, as soon as I get too old to compete I am defintely going to cut and lean down. It's better for your health and I am sure you would feel better.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Wtf? I'll never be able to bench that much.

You might have posted this in another thread, but what are your stats (measurements, height, weight, bf%, etc.)? Just curious.

I am not a body builder so I don't have any measurements, but I am 6 foot flat, currently ~285lbs, and I would guess probably 25% BF, maybe more.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Wtf? I'll never be able to bench that much.

You might have posted this in another thread, but what are your stats (measurements, height, weight, bf%, etc.)? Just curious.

I am not a body builder so I don't have any measurements, but I am 6 foot flat, currently ~285lbs, and I would guess probably 25% BF, maybe more.

I want to wrestle you!

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Wtf? I'll never be able to bench that much.

You might have posted this in another thread, but what are your stats (measurements, height, weight, bf%, etc.)? Just curious.

I am not a body builder so I don't have any measurements, but I am 6 foot flat, currently ~285lbs, and I would guess probably 25% BF, maybe more.

I want to wrestle you!

I would lose so bad, I never wrestled in HS because I was too busy lifting for football, so everytime I would try with one of my friends I would get killed. It's all about quickness I guess.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: F22 Raptor

560 with single ply shirt

475 Raw


How much do you bench?

Wtf? I'll never be able to bench that much.

You might have posted this in another thread, but what are your stats (measurements, height, weight, bf%, etc.)? Just curious.

I am not a body builder so I don't have any measurements, but I am 6 foot flat, currently ~285lbs, and I would guess probably 25% BF, maybe more.

I want to wrestle you!

I would lose so bad, I never wrestled in HS because I was too busy lifting for football, so everytime I would try with one of my friends I would get killed. It's all about quickness I guess.

Im just messin with you. I'm no wrestler. I just said that because 6'0 285lbs is huge, considering you're not a fata$$. I thought I was big at 5'11 202lbs.