Weapon ID

[Fern]

All the criminals I read about are super smart, they leave no traces of evidence and always purchase their guns on the black market.

-snip-

That's by and large correct, at least according to the foremost expert on the subject. That's why in recent years the govt has cancelled the majority of FFL permits.

Fern

 

[OCGuy]

Good luck with that. Thankfully even the most anti-2A libs understand that national gun rights will only continue to strengthen.

 

[ivwshane]

That's by and large correct, at least according to the foremost expert on the subject. That's why in recent years the govt has cancelled the majority of FFL permits.

Fern

They either always purchase their guns on the black market or they do sometimes, unless its always, your point is moot.

 

[rommelrommel]

If a criminal knows his bullet can be ID'd, he probably would be less likely to use it. Yes they can be stolen, but lawful ammunition purchasers will hopefully keep them well protected, and report if they're stolen.

A gun doesn't kill...without a human and a bullet. Linking them to help prevent crime is logical IMO.

I have a facebook friend (from grade school) who makes his own ammo. He posts pictures of his setup, part of which looks like a drill press. Even he could buy identifiable materials, but he never would.

Ok, so we know the following things:

The identifable marking must be somehow inside the bullet. If it's on the outside it would likely be defaced or destroyed on firing or on impact.

The identifable marking must be registered somewhere and tracked.

10-12 billion rounds of ammunition are domestically produced in the USA per year, before imports.

Even if we manage to devise a system to mark the bullets, we have to track upwards of 10 billion items of data per year.

And even after that, ammo can still be stolen. You can cast your own bullets from lead. You can turn them on a lathe. Ammo can be smuggled into the USA just like anything else. And as you said, you can make your own ammo with hand tools.

When you figure out how to do this at a negligible cost lemme know.

 

[bradly1101]

Ok, so we know the following things:

The identifable marking must be somehow inside the bullet. If it's on the outside it would likely be defaced or destroyed on firing or on impact.

The identifable marking must be registered somewhere and tracked.

10-12 billion rounds of ammunition are domestically produced in the USA per year, before imports.

Even if we manage to devise a system to mark the bullets, we have to track upwards of 10 billion items of data per year.

And even after that, ammo can still be stolen. You can cast your own bullets from lead. You can turn them on a lathe. Ammo can be smuggled into the USA just like anything else. And as you said, you can make your own ammo with hand tools.

When you figure out how to do this at a negligible cost lemme know.

Damn. I thought the taser idea could somehow applied on a larger scale. I know guns and ammo are produced at amazing rates, which I guess drives down prices.

I know when they find a bullet used in a crime they go to great lengths to match it to the gun that fired it and therefore its owner. I hoped there was a way to streamline that process. Though I live where most don't see a need for this. So I guess never mind.

 

[rudeguy]

Damn. I thought the taser idea could somehow applied on a larger scale. I know guns and ammo are produced at amazing rates, which I guess drives down prices.

I know when they find a bullet used in a crime they go to great lengths to match it to the gun that fired it and therefore its owner. I hoped there was a way to streamline that process. Though I live where most don't see a need for this. So I guess never mind.

We need to focus on prevention.

Your thinking outside the box is a good thing. But unfortunately the only thing that will stop crime is stopping humanity. Fixing poverty and getting people working would cut down on crime dramatically. How to do that is something I do not know.

 

[rommelrommel]

Damn. I thought the taser idea could somehow applied on a larger scale. I know guns and ammo are produced at amazing rates, which I guess drives down prices.

I know when they find a bullet used in a crime they go to great lengths to match it to the gun that fired it and therefore its owner. I hoped there was a way to streamline that process. Though I live where most don't see a need for this. So I guess never mind.

That's not really true.

If enough of the bullet survives impact you can determine the pattern of the grooves and lands of the barrel, and maybe the twist rate. It could be a clue as to the firearm but it's not likely to be helpful.

There is no registry of the markings that a specific barrel would make.

So, all it's possibly useful for is when you have a specific gun that you think may have been used and you want to check it against the bullet. The quality of the science is not nearly as good as it's made out to be on TV. You have to remember that the barrels are also mass produced by a machine so detecting differences between barrels made by the same machine is nearly impossible. Saying that a certain bullet was fired from a specific pistol cannot be said with much of any certainty.

 

[WackyDan]

That's not really true.

If enough of the bullet survives impact you can determine the pattern of the grooves and lands of the barrel, and maybe the twist rate. It could be a clue as to the firearm but it's not likely to be helpful.

There is no registry of the markings that a specific barrel would make.

So, all it's possibly useful for is when you have a specific gun that you think may have been used and you want to check it against the bullet. The quality of the science is not nearly as good as it's made out to be on TV. You have to remember that the barrels are also mass produced by a machine so detecting differences between barrels made by the same machine is nearly impossible. Saying that a certain bullet was fired from a specific pistol cannot be said with much of any certainty.

Maryland and NYS require a spent round to be registered and ballistic finger printed for each firearm sold in their states. They have spent millions on this program year over year and I believe they still have yet to solve a single crime with the data.

 

[rommelrommel]

Maryland and NYS require a spent round to be registered and ballistic finger printed for each firearm sold in their states. They have spent millions on this program year over year and I believe they still have yet to solve a single crime with the data.

Oh my fuck. That's like UK level gun law retarded.

 

[velillen]

That would make that system unworkable, but what about making the powder/projectile identifiable for each box, and the ammo gets registered. I know this wouldn't go over well with gun owners and the NRA, but is a life worth the trouble and expense? How about a hundred lives?

Powder theoretically all gets burned up. So you would be looking at residue. but that would be unreliable. If i go to the range I will usually fire 100 rounds in my pistols. That would mean i could potentially have 100 "nano" markers carbonfied (made up word ) in the gun. Then what if I do shoot someone and they are 50 feet away. They shouldnt have any gun powder residue hit them so if i pick up the casing there (theoretically again) shouldnt be any residue at the scene of the crime. Its kind of like microstamping where it seems like a good idea but it would be complex and unreliable IMO.

ID'ing the casing won't help. What about imbedding something in the bullet

Your are talking billions of bullets in completed ammo and probably millions more in component for for reloaders. Then you have those who cast their own. So again it would be difficult to implement. Plus upon impact a bullet can break into tons of pieces or it could penetrate and never be found. you would be relying on the bullet part that is stamped to stay intact to be able to read it.

More ideas would be great in this thread. Thanks for not implying that I'm an idiot for posting this.

Im always open for debate. Its always interesting to me seeing the different views on subjects. Its just once one person goes personal attacks that i just stop caring. Ive debated with plenty of anti-gun guys and had some great debates. but ive also had guys just go personal and i just roll my eyes and walk away.




As for the cost....you could say that about a lot of things. Baseball bats have killed more people than rifles in this country. yet i can go to big 5 and buy one for... (hell i dont even know 50 bucks?). Thats one of the issues gun owners have. People are trying to make things so difficult for the law abiding owners just cause the media waves the bloody shirt at every single shooting anymore. Yet you never hear about the baseball bat murders for more than a night (if at all).

Would this really stop actions of the mass murders anyways. Most of them bought their guns legally, bought their ammo legally, then did illegal things. My opinion is they would have just as gladly bought the marked ammo (by whatever method) and used it since none of them expect to live (expecting to live is my opinion). Same would apply for a lot of the murders committed using handguns. The ones who buy legally then use them for illegal purposes arent thinking about getting away with it. The gangbangers...well they dont buy legally anyways and i doubt they care what ammo they use either

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Focus on things that actually makes a difference in reducing crime such as education & jobs.

 

[OverVolt]

I admit I didn't consider that potentially making something safer would impact people so negatively.

I guess I'm searching for answers that would lead people to only use guns lawfully. There must be an answer, we have the technology. Is safety worth some difficulty?

I know getting to all ammo is impossible, but we could make a dent in future crimes. Not worth it?

A bad guy murders someone and some magical liberal technology leaves evidence, evidence everywhere.

So they catch the guy after the fact and put him in jail.

You geniuses prevented a murder how again? The guy is still dead. Derp.

That liberal logic.

 

[HTFOff]

Maryland and NYS require a spent round to be registered and ballistic finger printed for each firearm sold in their states. They have spent millions on this program year over year and I believe they still have yet to solve a single crime with the data.

I live in ny and can attest to the silly gun laws, but I've never heard of this. Be more specific.

 

[Nintendesert]

We'd get better results in regards to reducing gun crimes by expanding abortions than any of this silliness.