"We set the CPU multiplier to 19x for the overclock test which disables CnQ."

[imported_Scoop]

This is a quote from Gary Key from the latest underclocking article on Phenom II X4 965. I guess I never thought about it but this is true? Is this also true for the Extreme Edition Intel processors?

Personally, the saving grace for overclocking is that the multiplier and voltages are dropped while idle so you're not running the system at full speed killing the Earth and your wallet all the time the system is on. And from what I've understood, the Black Edition CPUs from AMD are for the OC crowd and people usually use the multiplier to OC their AMD system. So this effectively makes the system run at full speed all the time.

I guess the other method for OCing AMD CPUs is changing the HTT reference clock, right? So how well do the Phenom IIs OC using this method?

This is a real deal breaker for me personally, what are your thoughts on it?

 

[richierich1212]

Not a deal breaker since you can use PhenomMsrTweaker instead.

 

[faxon]

if it's true, is it really that big of a deal? a lot of P45 motherboards on the intel side are known for their 500+FSB speeds 24/7 stable capabilities, so running the cpu at stock multi and just pushing up the FSB preserves this just fine on s775 platforms. i have heard that i7s run into QPI walls on some boards with 920s, but with anything much higher again you have a high enough stock multi to where this isnt an issue, and i have never heard of any issues with up to date AMD systems running high HT/NB speeds to aid in bus based overclocking of their phenom and phenom 2 multi locked CPUs. with that all said and done, if it's true that this is the case, it is still the suck, but i doubt that it will get fixed if it's locked into the CPUs hardcode to do this. if you can fix it with a bios update, it will probably get fixed eventually, but i honestly cant comment on which is the case and when this would happen if they do fix it

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: Scoop
This is a quote from Gary Key from the latest underclocking article on Phenom II X4 965. I guess I never thought about it but this is true? Is this also true for the Extreme Edition Intel processors?

Personally, the saving grace for overclocking is that the multiplier and voltages are dropped while idle so you're not running the system at full speed killing the Earth and your wallet all the time the system is on. And from what I've understood, the Black Edition CPUs from AMD are for the OC crowd and people usually use the multiplier to OC their AMD system. So this effectively makes the system run at full speed all the time.

I guess the other method for OCing AMD CPUs is changing the HTT reference clock, right? So how well do the Phenom IIs OC using this method?

This is a real deal breaker for me personally, what are your thoughts on it?

Hogwash...........

An overclocked CPU will use additional "energy" to the tune of pennies per day.

And overclocking with a multi only is nOObish.

A "locked" multi means that the multiplier can only be lowered. AMD Black Edition CPUs (and the older FX series CPUs) have unlocked multipliers that can be raised or lowered. So, when overclocking with FSB and multi, you can hit the "sweet spot" with combined CPU and memory speeds (well, at least get closer to it!).

And, yes, you can use C&Q (or Intel's Speed step for that matter) on an overclocked system, but at the limits of overclocking that can cause instability. With a mild overclock they work fine.

It's all a little more complicated than you think or I care to explain.

 

[taltamir]

personally i find it STUPID that CnQ is a RELATIVE thing... it should be absolute... that is... when CnQ engages it drops to an exact multiplier, voltage, and FSB preset. rather then a relative drop compared to current OC, or disabled entirely when OC...
Allow users to tweak that absolute value in BIOS too...

So whether it drops from 12x or 19x, it should always drop to the same 6x

 

[imported_Scoop]

Originally posted by: Billb2

Originally posted by: Scoop
This is a quote from Gary Key from the latest underclocking article on Phenom II X4 965. I guess I never thought about it but this is true? Is this also true for the Extreme Edition Intel processors?

Personally, the saving grace for overclocking is that the multiplier and voltages are dropped while idle so you're not running the system at full speed killing the Earth and your wallet all the time the system is on. And from what I've understood, the Black Edition CPUs from AMD are for the OC crowd and people usually use the multiplier to OC their AMD system. So this effectively makes the system run at full speed all the time.

I guess the other method for OCing AMD CPUs is changing the HTT reference clock, right? So how well do the Phenom IIs OC using this method?

This is a real deal breaker for me personally, what are your thoughts on it?

Hogwash...........

An overclocked CPU will use additional "energy" to the tune of pennies per day.

And overclocking with a multi only is nOObish.

A "locked" multi means that the multiplier can only be lowered. AMD Black Edition CPUs (and the older FX series CPUs) have unlocked multipliers that can be raised or lowered. So, when overclocking with FSB and multi, you can hit the "sweet spot" with combined CPU and memory speeds (well, at least get closer to it!).

And, yes, you can use C&Q (or Intel's Speed step for that matter) on an overclocked system, but at the limits of overclocking that can cause instability. With a mild overclock they work fine.

It's all a little more complicated than you think or I care to explain.

Ok, I knew all that. Care to read my post again and answer some of the questions, like how well the AMD CPUs OC with the HTT reference clock adjustments? Gary Key said the highest setting he was able to hit for this article was 17x218 for a 3.708Ghz core clock. That's not a lot when the CPU runs @3.4Ghz stock.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Scoop

Ok, I knew all that. Care to read my post again and answer some of the questions

No.
No.
Yes.
Not brilliantly.
Don't care/not a deal breaker...

You should be able to hit around 240 HTT, most don't go that high since the multi is unlocked...
You should read the article again...
That is the maximum speed it would hit while undervolted (@ 1.36V, stock was 1.40V).

Anand's review of the 965 - Page 9 is overclocking.

 

[LoneNinja]

From personal experience, if I change my cpu multiplier on my Gigabyte board I loose CnQ, if I do it on both of my Biostar boards CnQ remains enabled and working properly with no instability problems.

Than there is always K10Stat and other programs that you could use to manually adjust your power states within windows.

 

[thilanliyan]

For whatever reason my Gigabyte does this but I just use PhenomMSRTweaker.
The Asus board I tried worked fine with CnQ even with the upped multiplier.

 

[Yukmouth]

I run my HT at 230mhz default voltage on an PII X720/MSI 770-C45 combo. I've also got that ACC option to unlock the fourth core, but my PII is a dud. Make no mistake, I'm grateful for a 400mhz jump to 3.2ghz, but, I just thought I'd of had more luck.

Personally I almost never mess with the multi when I oc anything, but I did happen to play with it to see if I could get a few final mhz out of my CPU. Raising all the way up to seventeen did not effect C&Q, I didn't go any higher than that though.

I was worried about C&Q at first also, but overall, C&Q has been great while overclocking. Voltage change's, multi change's, fsb change's, it still works no matter what you do; just don't jump that multi sky high and you're ok. You can reach max potential on these cpu's with a multiplier of less than 19x via HT.

It dose fine at 240mhz HT as someone has pointed out, I've been at 250 in windows on a down clock of my CPU and it did fine, also. I originally thought my OC was stable at 3.5ghz/240mhz fsb. Like I said, my third core on this chip is crap and it took a while to show. The two main cores hit 3.7ghz/3.8ghz and go through prime 95 just fine, however, the third core fails at anything over 3200mzh. I'm not comfortable with +1.40v on a possible dud of a third core and I'm sure it'd be a pain trying to get anything else out of this chip so I'm waiting for a sure thing rather than jacking up my voltage's.

There's an absolute window in which C&Q works, clearly a bit different based on what motherboard you get. A combo of FSB and Multiplier manipulation will not shut off C&Q in most case's and you're CPU is more likely to be a bigger hindrance IMO.

 

[imported_Scoop]

Originally posted by: LoneNinja
From personal experience, if I change my cpu multiplier on my Gigabyte board I loose CnQ, if I do it on both of my Biostar boards CnQ remains enabled and working properly with no instability problems.

Than there is always K10Stat and other programs that you could use to manually adjust your power states within windows.

Originally posted by: thilan29
For whatever reason my Gigabyte does this but I just use PhenomMSRTweaker.
The Asus board I tried worked fine with CnQ even with the upped multiplier.

So stay away from Gigabyte boards if you wish to OC using the multiplier and retain CnQ. Got it.