We need to stay the course in Iraq.

[HappyPuppy]

Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

I prefer to live without Allah.

 

[Beowulf]

I doubt well go into Iran unless it was a must but it seems the nuclear issue is being cooled down for the moment.A buddy of mine Naweed is from Karachi,Pakistan a shiite muslim and he'd love us to crush Iran but thats cause in between muslims they hate on each other be shiite,sunni,and shia.

 

[HappyPuppy]

The whole idea of surrounding Iran is so we don't ever have to go in.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

I prefer to live without Allah.

I would focus on the radical Islamic leaders by presenting a different message from other respected Moslims. Everybody grows and nobody has to die, if you believe in the power of truth, that is. Since almost nobody knows what it is it's normal not to trust.

 

[Beowulf]

Yea but what will be accomplished surrounding Iran other than hate from them even more.Once the Iraq situation is calmed down and stability is brought in I don't think they'll be too much problems maybe with the sunni majority because of the ties to Iran if we try to surround Iran that is.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Why ? Iran had nothing to do with 9/11. That is unless you want to flame the fires of radical Islam even more.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Well at least you are honest. Then again be honest with yourself and realize that you cannot subjugate a nation full of people and expect them to love you or to win. The British learned this lesson more then once. Funny how we as Americans have forgotten this lesson.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

Now you are just reaching and using fear mongering. Sorry pal it wont work.

I prefer to live without Allah.

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Why ? Iran had nothing to do with 9/11. That is unless you want to flame the fires of radical Islam even more.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Well at least you are honest. Then again be honest with yourself and realize that you cannot subjugate a nation full of people and expect them to love you or to win. The British learned this lesson more then once. Funny how we as Americans have forgotten this lesson.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

Now you are just reaching and using fear mongering. Sorry pal it wont work.

I prefer to live without Allah.

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

As I said, radical Islamic leaders believe that every living being on planet Earth must bow to Allah or be terminated. That doesn't leave much room for negotiation.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

I prefer to live without Allah.

I would focus on the radical Islamic leaders by presenting a different message from other respected Moslims. Everybody grows and nobody has to die, if you believe in the power of truth, that is. Since almost nobody knows what it is it's normal not to trust.

Moon,moderate Muslims don't seem to be working very hard to stop the radicals who are bent on forcing us all to be Muslim or pushing up daisies.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Why ? Iran had nothing to do with 9/11. That is unless you want to flame the fires of radical Islam even more.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Well at least you are honest. Then again be honest with yourself and realize that you cannot subjugate a nation full of people and expect them to love you or to win. The British learned this lesson more then once. Funny how we as Americans have forgotten this lesson.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

Now you are just reaching and using fear mongering. Sorry pal it wont work.

I prefer to live without Allah.

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

As I said, radical Islamic leaders believe that every living being on planet Earth must bow to Allah or be terminated. That doesn't leave much room for negotiation.

So do radical Christian, Hindu, Jewish etc... leaders so whats your point ? If you leave people alone they'll leave you alone. If you send troops galloping around half-way across to globe to kill and fight over lies don't be surprise if you created more hatred and anger toward this nation. You are the militants best recruiting tool. Again you cannot subjugate peoples of a nation. Look back to history including our own and realize what happens when someone else tried to do so. The endings have always been messy, nasty, bloody and not good for the one doing the subjugating.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Iraq is strategically located and we need it as a foothold, along with Afghanistan. When things settle down in Iraq we will have Iran surrounded and can begin the slow squeeze.

Why ? Iran had nothing to do with 9/11. That is unless you want to flame the fires of radical Islam even more.

Democracy and freedom have nothing to do with our operations in the Middle East, our long term safety is what is at stake.

Well at least you are honest. Then again be honest with yourself and realize that you cannot subjugate a nation full of people and expect them to love you or to win. The British learned this lesson more then once. Funny how we as Americans have forgotten this lesson.

Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity or Judism, the difference being that radical Islamic leaders have vowed to force the entire population of planet Earth to bow to Allah or die.

Now you are just reaching and using fear mongering. Sorry pal it wont work.

I prefer to live without Allah.

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

As I said, radical Islamic leaders believe that every living being on planet Earth must bow to Allah or be terminated. That doesn't leave much room for negotiation.

So do radical Christian, Hindu, Jewish etc... leaders so whats your point ? If you leave people alone they'll leave you alone. If you send troops galloping around half-way across to globe to kill and fight over lies don't be surprise if you create more hatred and anger towards this nation.

BINGO!!!

It's Bush's mess...let him and his administration clean it up! Just think....these guys thought we would be down to 30,000 troops left in Iraq in September of 2003. We'll be lucky to be there at September 2013....and more than likely tack on thousands of deaths and a trillion dollars of new debt. Are we safer...not one damn bit.

"Spreading Democracy"....another of the shifting positions as to why we went there.......just place them on wheel of fortune and call out which one it stops on.

It's a no win situation....that could have been won by not going in the first place...but not now.

 

[HappyPuppy]

If you leave people alone they'll leave you alone.


Not true. You must live in Utopia to believe that.

Or, are you French?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
If you leave people alone they'll leave you alone.


Not true. You must live in Utopia to believe that.

Or, are you French?

That's right...Iraq wasn't doing anything to us...and look what we did to them! :Q

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
If you leave people alone they'll leave you alone.


Not true. You must live in Utopia to believe that.

Or, are you French?

So when did Iraq attack us exactly ? You forget that we started this war. We are the ones that went out of our backyard into Iraq. It was not the other way around.

P.S. You lose one point for that French comment.

 

[ntdz]

you do realize that Iraq shot at our planes in the no fly zone every day don't you? They signed a treaty to end the gulf war, and par of it was allowing us to patrol the no fly zone. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. Last time I checked, shooting at our planes is an act of war.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

The problem isn't Iraqis - or anyone else - who wants to live with Allah. The problem comes from those who want to die for him, and take non-Muslims with them.

We're in Iraq for the long haul. We have learned hard lessons from the last 30+ years in Afghanistan; it won't be allowed to happen in Iraq - by any president worth his salt.

Iran is now in negotiations to freeze parts of their nuclear program. That the negotiations are almost finished within two weeks of Bush's re-election is no coincidence - they'd rather "surrender" their nuclear ambitions to the EU than to the US. We won't be going into Iran. The Iranians will be left to choose whether to keep their "government" or not, as long as they aren't threatening any of their neighbors. If they do that, all bets are off.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: ntdz
you do realize that Iraq shot at our planes in the no fly zone every day don't you? They signed a treaty to end the gulf war, and par of it was allowing us to patrol the no fly zone. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. Last time I checked, shooting at our planes is an act of war.

The war was not base on that reason. It was based on WMD's which were never there to begin with. Not to mention that Iraq has a right to control it's own air space as a soverign nation. It was a nice try though.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: ntdz
you do realize that Iraq shot at our planes in the no fly zone every day don't you? They signed a treaty to end the gulf war, and par of it was allowing us to patrol the no fly zone. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. Last time I checked, shooting at our planes is an act of war.

The war was not base on that reason. It was based on WMD's which were never there to begin with. Not to mention that Iraq has a right to control it's own air space as a soverign nation. It was a nice try though.

whats your point? It's still a perfectly legit reason. There were dozens of seperate reasons to go to war with Iraq. One of them (WMD) turned out to be true. The other 20 or so were and still are valid. You act as if b/c we didn't find WMD means the war was illegal or something.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Iraqis prefer to live with Allah and there is nothing you can do about it.

The problem isn't Iraqis - or anyone else - who wants to live with Allah. The problem comes from those who want to die for him, and take non-Muslims with them.

Actually the problem lays with our nation trying to force in Western pro-Christian values in the mouths of muslim Iraqis who do not want a Iraqi half-naked Brittney spears running around their nation. Again when you force something onto someone you will never get the desired results you seek. You can't force people to change their values or religion. Try forcing a Born-Again Christian to change his/her views on gay marriage or Catholics and see what you get from it. You'll find out that the more you try to force it in one direction the more it will go to the complete opposite direction. "Staying The Course" means forcing our will onto a nation of peoples and it will not work.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually the problem lays with our nation trying to force in Western pro-Christian values in the mouths of muslim Iraqis who do not want a Iraqi half-naked Brittney spears running around their nation. Again when you force something onto someone you will never get the desired result you seek. You can't force people to change their values or religion. Try forcing a Born-Again Christian to change his/her views on gay marriage and see what you get from it.

I'd prefer not to have a half-naked Britteny Spears running around MY nation, too. What does that have to do with "western pro-christian values"?

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: ntdz
you do realize that Iraq shot at our planes in the no fly zone every day don't you? They signed a treaty to end the gulf war, and par of it was allowing us to patrol the no fly zone. They didn't live up to their end of the bargain. Last time I checked, shooting at our planes is an act of war.

The war was not base on that reason. It was based on WMD's which were never there to begin with. Not to mention that Iraq has a right to control it's own air space as a soverign nation. It was a nice try though.

whats your point? It's still a perfectly legit reason. There were dozens of seperate reasons to go to war with Iraq. One of them (WMD) turned out to be true. The other 20 or so were and still are valid. You act as if b/c we didn't find WMD means the war was illegal or something.

Actually no it's not. It was not the reason why we went to war over and there were and still are no WMD's in Iraq. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy but even Rummy, Cheney, Bush and everyone else worth mentioning in the White House has acknowledge at one pointor another in time that there was no WMD's in Iraq.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually the problem lays with our nation trying to force in Western pro-Christian values in the mouths of muslim Iraqis who do not want a Iraqi half-naked Brittney spears running around their nation. Again when you force something onto someone you will never get the desired result you seek. You can't force people to change their values or religion. Try forcing a Born-Again Christian to change his/her views on gay marriage and see what you get from it.

I'd prefer not to have a half-naked Britteny Spears running around MY nation, too. What does that have to do with "western pro-christian values"?

Well the fact that they are not a nation of christians and the fact that this is how they view us through our media kind it makes it a big sticking point.

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually no it's not. It was not the reason why we went to war over and there were and still are no WMD's in Iraq. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy but even Rummy, Cheney, Bush and everyone else worth mentioning in the White House has acknowledge at one pointor another in time that there was no WMD's in Iraq.

Wrong. We went to war because Hussein didn't uphold ALL of his agreements with the UN, AND because he was making overtures to Al Qaida. Everything else falls under those headings. You can argue the semantics, but that won't change the facts.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually no it's not. It was not the reason why we went to war over and there were and still are no WMD's in Iraq. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy but even Rummy, Cheney, Bush and everyone else worth mentioning in the White House has acknowledge at one pointor another in time that there was no WMD's in Iraq.

Wrong. We went to war because Hussein didn't uphold ALL of his agreements with the UN, AND because he was making overtures to Al Qaida. Everything else falls under those headings. You can argue the semantics, but that won't change the facts.

BS

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually the problem lays with our nation trying to force in Western pro-Christian values in the mouths of muslim Iraqis who do not want a Iraqi half-naked Brittney spears running around their nation. Again when you force something onto someone you will never get the desired result you seek. You can't force people to change their values or religion. Try forcing a Born-Again Christian to change his/her views on gay marriage and see what you get from it.

I'd prefer not to have a half-naked Britteny Spears running around MY nation, too. What does that have to do with "western pro-christian values"?

Well the fact that they are not a nation of christians and the fact that this is how they view us through our media kind it makes it a big sticking point.

In 18+ months, we've built how many churches on the remains of how many mosques? Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Actually no it's not. It was not the reason why we went to war over and there were and still are no WMD's in Iraq. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy but even Rummy, Cheney, Bush and everyone else worth mentioning in the White House has acknowledge at one pointor another in time that there was no WMD's in Iraq.

Wrong. We went to war because Hussein didn't uphold ALL of his agreements with the UN, AND because he was making overtures to Al Qaida. Everything else falls under those headings. You can argue the semantics, but that won't change the facts.

We all know the sole and only reason was the WMD reason which Bush hammered into us everyday leading up to the war. Please shed some light on the other reasons which were part of the declaration of war. Also the State Department has stated that there were no hard links between Al Qaida and Saddam.