We need an AA thread...

[EliteRetard]

I am so confused by all the stupid AA crap...I have no idea when or what or even how to use AA anymore. AA AAS MFSAA ASS SSAA MDF blah blah blah...Itd be awesome if someone could come up with a generic setting list based on the card and resolution to give the best overall picture quality. Like most games from '06-'10 should play at:

ATI 48xx/57xx
High 2xAA 4xAF 16x10
Med 2xAA 2xAF 19x12
Low 0x AA 0xAA 25x16

Nvidia GT 250/260
High 2xANA 4xAF 16x10
Med 2xANA 2xAF 19x12
Low 0x AA 0xAA 25x16

ATI 58xx/68xx
Ultra 4xABA 8XAF 16x10
High 2xABA 4xAF 19x12
High 0xAA 2XAF 25x16

Nvidia GTX460/470
Ultra 4xALA 8XAF 16x10
High 2xALA 4xAF 19x12
High 0xAA 2XAF 25x16

ATI 5890/GTX480/580
Ultra 8xABCA 16xAF 16x10
High 8xABCA 16xAF 19x12
High 4xABA 8xAF 25x16

And tell us in a seperate section how to enable such settings...for AA do we need to enable them in game, or for ABCA in control panel...perhaps make note of any DX specific modes (I heard there were some AA that dont work in DX10/11?) and brand specific AA (which is why I seperated ATI Nvidia)

Im well aware a list like this wont/cant be all encompassing, but besides the fringe games like crysis or much older games, most current games should be able to play at X and Y settings on such cards. If someone knew enough about this to put together a competent list (possibly with help/input from others) it should get a sticky...itd be very usefull.

 

[EliteRetard]

Anyone wanna comment?

 

[Throckmorton]

I'm also confused by all these types of AA

 

[RussianSensation]

For GeForce cards, you can find "playable settings" at GeForce.com.

Select your GPU at the top right and press "Find Settings."

Alienbabeltech has excellent image quality overviews. While you won't be able to tell how a GTX260 or an HD4870 will perform under every single AA setting, you will have a better understanding of what the AA options mean.

GTX260 vs. 4850 AA Image Quality part 2
ATI 4000 series AA Image Quality
ATI 5000 series AA Image Quality
GTX200 series AA Image Quality
GTX400 series AA Image Quality

Here are the basic Anti-Aliasing, Super sampling and Multi-sampling modes explained.

BFG went out of his way to compare a lot of AA modes for NV cards in Far Cry 1.

I heard there were some AA that dont work in DX10/11

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=21497&page=5
- The GeForce8000/9000/GTX200 series support SSAA (super-sampling), but only in DX9 and OpenGL.
- nVidia’s GTX400 series' advantages over ATi include the fact that SSAA functions in DX10/DX11, and also that the samples can be decoupled from the base MSAA level, exactly like TrAA can.
- SSAA in OpenGL is still “hidden”, so you have to activate it the old way (not sure what the "old way" means here precisely). I am sure if you Private Message BFG, he can gladly clarify.

 

[Rifter]

good idea and im all for it. I know what all the AA types are(thanks to BFG's articles) but usualy have to resort to trial and error to find what will work in what games.

 

[darckhart]

def start with BFGs articles on AA. they are excellent for understanding what is needed where. one other thing you can do is determine what the game engine is and what the majority of environments will be. that will clue you in as to what types of AA you need to apply to make it look pretty.

 

[WelshBloke]

It is confusing, for my lowly G80 theres:-

1. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency off
2. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency off
3. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency off
4. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency off
5. 16x,, gamma correction off, transparency off
6. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency off
7. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency off
8. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency off
9. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency off
10. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency off
11. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency off
12. 16xQ, gamma correction on, transparency off
13. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
14. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
15. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
16. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
17. 16x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
18. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
19. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
20. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
21. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
22. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
23. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
24. 16xQ, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
25. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
26. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
27. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
28. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
29. 16x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
30. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
31. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
32. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
33. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
34. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
35. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
36. 16xq, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling

Thats without getting into application controlled/enhanced/overide.

And thats just one setting AA, throw AF into there and it gets really confusing.

Thank god for ctrlc/ctrlv

 

[German_IQfreak]

Nvidia AA

Here it is possible to force SGSSSAA and TrSAA
Also possible to combine hybridmodes like 32xS with 8SGSSAA or 4MSAA with 2SGSSAA.



edit :

Name of the tool is Nvidia Inspector

http://www.orbmu2k.de/
The current version is in english and it is also possible to adjust the LOD-Bias

edit:
Another AA method.
In Germany we call it Downsampling but is just a simple kind of OGSSAA
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=454129

 

[WelshBloke]

Nvidia AA

Here it is possible to force SGSSSAA and TrSAA
Also possible to combine hybridmodes like 32xS with 8SGSSAA or 4MSAA with 2SGSSAA.



edit :

Name of the tool is Nvidia Inspector

http://www.orbmu2k.de/
The current version is in english and it is also possible to adjust the LOD-Bias

edit:
Another AA method.
In Germany we call it Downsampling but is just a simple kind of OGSSAA
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=454129

Thats not simplifying things

Theres no way I'm typing that up into my list!:|

 

[Idontcare]

It would be nice if you could just input a target level for min-allowed fps and desired fps and the drivers would monitor gameplay (heck use an extra core for it, we all got those laying around) in realtime and adjust AA/IQ/tessellation level/eye-candy/etc on the fly (no crazy rapid changes, should be subtle gradual transitions between levels and modes transparent to the user) so that the target fps rates are observed based on each given user's hardware config.

Have a slower than usual harddrive or a faster than usual cpu and the drivers know what to do so your gameplay remains acceptably smooth while playing.

Of course have a manual override for those gamers who want eyecandy at the expense of watching a slideshow.

 

[Stoneburner]

Srsly. I was so annoyed by all the new AA types I started drinking heavily.

 

[pmv]

Here are the basic Anti-Aliasing, Super sampling and Multi-sampling modes explained.

I have to say, having read that article, I still find I don't fully understand any of them other than super-sampling (which is what I understood anti-aliasing to be, back long before video cards actually did AA - that method is pretty easy to understand). There are several things that page doesn't fully explain about the other two methods.

e.g. how can you take samples in a diamond shape when pixels are rectangular? I'm a bit baffled by that one.

When it says the sampling is done 'progressively' through all pixels, I'm assuming that doesn't really mean what it says, in that you presumably only apply the results to all pixels simultaneously, rather than averaging later pixels with pixels that have themselves already been averaged?

Are these averages for the samples weighted averages based on distances from the centres of adjoining pixels? Do they only take into account the immediately adjacent pixels?

Not that I use AA much in games, as usually my vid card can't manage decent frame rates with it enabled anyway. Just curious, as I used to think I knew what AA was, till they came up with these other methods.

 

[German_IQfreak]

Here a detailed article about MSAA in english and german
http://alt.3dcenter.org/artikel/multisampling_anti-aliasing/index_e.php

http://alt.3dcenter.org/artikel/anti-aliasing/ --> this articel just in german but its more general and very detailed

 

[BFG10K]

Thanks for the links, Russian.

BTW, at the end of most of my articles are detailed benchmarks comparing a lot of the different AA modes.

I have to say, having read that article, I still find I don't fully understand any of them other than super-sampling (which is what I understood anti-aliasing to be, back long before video cards actually did AA - that method is pretty easy to understand). There are several things that page doesn't fully explain about the other two methods.

The way MSAA was described in that article is incorrect in almost every way, so that’s where the confusion is coming from.

 

[tokie]

It would be nice if you could just input a target level for min-allowed fps and desired fps and the drivers would monitor gameplay (heck use an extra core for it, we all got those laying around) in realtime and adjust AA/IQ/tessellation level/eye-candy/etc on the fly (no crazy rapid changes, should be subtle gradual transitions between levels and modes transparent to the user) so that the target fps rates are observed based on each given user's hardware config.

Have a slower than usual harddrive or a faster than usual cpu and the drivers know what to do so your gameplay remains acceptably smooth while playing.

Of course have a manual override for those gamers who want eyecandy at the expense of watching a slideshow.

Smells like an opportunity for a patent. You'd best get on that.

 

[nyker96]

ok I recently did the same research cause I got a gtx 460 that has so many AA options: MSAA, CSAA, CSAA-Q, from 2x to 32x. Other fancier AA options in general I don't see much as game options.

here's the answer for NV card:
MSAA best quality AA, but uses lots memory bandwidth
CSAA uses about 1/4 bandwidth to MSAA, has about 80% visual quality to MSAA of same level.

Essentially: 16xCSAA uses about same bandwidth as 4xMSAA and has a quality rating close to 8xMSAA. That is why use CSAA in 16x or 32x is excellent, high quality, low bandwidth.

The CSAA-Q version uses much more bandwidth is close to 95% MSAA quality. so 16xCSAA-Q should be close to 16xMSAA in quality and uses slightly less bandwidth. So in most settings, CSAA/CSAA-Q is superior option to MSAA because it uses less bandwidth while produce close enough of quality.

From these info, I'd recommend either 8xCSAA or 16xCSAA in most games since anything higher I personally don't see much difference, been CSAA they uses very little memory bandwidth and is rather quick. MSAA is older tech, I wouldn't use it for newer cards.

 

[RussianSensation]

nyker96, the problem is that some AA modes do nothing for "fake geometry".

Under GeForce 8000/9000/GT200 series, TrSS only worked under DX9. However, with GTX400 series, this new TrSS mode works under DX10.

"So why is this a big deal? Because a lot of DX10 games have bad aliasing of fake geometry, including some very popular ones. Under Crysis in DX10 mode for example you can’t currently anti-alias the foliage, and even brand-new games such as Battlefield: Bad Company 2 suffer from aliasing. NVIDIA’s new TrSS mode fixes all of this." - Anandtech

If you look at the Crysis screenshots, the image quality for foliage is vastly improved with TrSS over CSAA. Therefore, it appears to be the case that with higher foliage in the game such as Crysis, the usage of 4x AA+ 2x TrSS may actually provide superior performance to 16xCSAA-Q.

 

[EliteRetard]

Yeah, see thats why we need a list of general setting we should use. Somebody who knows what the heck these modes are and when theyre best used. Or whatever...

Im going to do some reading here though and see what I can figure.

 

[sandorski]

lol. I quit tweaking my Settings way back after I retired my Voodoo 5 5500 and the replacement didn't really do AA well. Since that time I almost exclusively just go with the Auto Settings most Games choose, then I might add some AA afterward, but couldn't be bothered to try different types of AA. These days with our very high Resolutions, Aliasing is really not the issue it used to be, not that it is a non-issue, but everyone who Gamed back then know what I'm talking about. AA didn't just improve eyecandy, it greatly improved Playability of Games. It doesn't so much anymore.

 

[tyl998]

How do I make sure that my games are using Transparent Super Sampling? I gotta makesure TrSS is selected in my Nvidia control panel?

 

[RussianSensation]

How do I make sure that my games are using Transparent Super Sampling? I gotta makesure TrSS is selected in my Nvidia control panel?

Yes, think of the control panel as the command center. It will override all in-game AA modes iirc. In a game like Crysis you can use 4xAA + TrSS (i.e., hybrid), which will help with foliage.

 

[SirPauly]

I am so confused by all the stupid AA crap...I have no idea when or what or even how to use AA anymore. AA AAS MFSAA ASS SSAA MDF blah blah blah...Itd be awesome if someone could come up with a generic setting list based on the card and resolution to give the best overall picture quality. Like most games from '06-'10 should play at:

ATI 48xx/57xx
High 2xAA 4xAF 16x10
Med 2xAA 2xAF 19x12
Low 0x AA 0xAA 25x16

Nvidia GT 250/260
High 2xANA 4xAF 16x10
Med 2xANA 2xAF 19x12
Low 0x AA 0xAA 25x16

ATI 58xx/68xx
Ultra 4xABA 8XAF 16x10
High 2xABA 4xAF 19x12
High 0xAA 2XAF 25x16

Nvidia GTX460/470
Ultra 4xALA 8XAF 16x10
High 2xALA 4xAF 19x12
High 0xAA 2XAF 25x16

ATI 5890/GTX480/580
Ultra 8xABCA 16xAF 16x10
High 8xABCA 16xAF 19x12
High 4xABA 8xAF 25x16

And tell us in a seperate section how to enable such settings...for AA do we need to enable them in game, or for ABCA in control panel...perhaps make note of any DX specific modes (I heard there were some AA that dont work in DX10/11?) and brand specific AA (which is why I seperated ATI Nvidia)

Im well aware a list like this wont/cant be all encompassing, but besides the fringe games like crysis or much older games, most current games should be able to play at X and Y settings on such cards. If someone knew enough about this to put together a competent list (possibly with help/input from others) it should get a sticky...itd be very usefull.

They already have things like you're asking in the "adjust image settings in Preview!" IF one desires quality, the driver will pick the settings for ya or "Balanced", or "performance."

In the advanced settings, there is going to be a learning curve but it is to your benefit to try to learn them so you can tweak the title for the right balance for your system and eyes. If you don't care -- just set quality, balanced or performance and away you go.

 

[SirPauly]

Yeah, see thats why we need a list of general setting we should use. Somebody who knows what the heck these modes are and when theyre best used. Or whatever...

Im going to do some reading here though and see what I can figure.

There is the key. They're really there for your benefit and after you learn what the strengths are, you'll master them in short order.

 

[SirPauly]

It is confusing, for my lowly G80 theres:-

1. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency off
2. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency off
3. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency off
4. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency off
5. 16x,, gamma correction off, transparency off
6. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency off
7. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency off
8. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency off
9. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency off
10. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency off
11. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency off
12. 16xQ, gamma correction on, transparency off
13. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
14. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
15. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
16. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
17. 16x, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
18. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency multisampling
19. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
20. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
21. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
22. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
23. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
24. 16xQ, gamma correction on, transparency multisampling
25. 2x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
26. 4x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
27. 8x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
28. 8xQ, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
29. 16x, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
30. 16xQ, gamma correction off, transparency supersampling
31. 2x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
32. 4x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
33. 8x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
34. 8xQ, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
35. 16x, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling
36. 16xq, gamma correction on, transparency supersampling

Thats without getting into application controlled/enhanced/overide.

And thats just one setting AA, throw AF into there and it gets really confusing.

Thank god for ctrlc/ctrlv

I think what happens here is the sheer numbers may be confusing but to understand what the features are and what they do to enhance gaming.

The key is to know what gamma correction is and how does it help and is it worth the performance hit?

The key is to know what multi-sampling is and how does it help and is it worth the performance hit?

The key is to know what coverage sample AA is and how does it help and is it worth the performance hit?

The key is to know what Transparency AA is and how does it help and is it worth the performance hit?

Take each one step by step to slowly digest it.

Why is there an application controlled setting?

Why is there an over-ride?

Why is there an enhanced?

 

[BFG10K]

MSAA is older tech, I wouldn't use it for newer cards.

Huh? All CSAA modes have at least 4xMSAA as the base component. They have to, because coverage samples on their own would produce very poor results.