We have a problem, 1 in every 142 people in US in prison

xirtam

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2001
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I'll perform an exhaustive study of those 2 million cases by 5pm tonight and get back to you on that...
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Ripped this from another forum, can anyone verify these numbers? If this is accurate this problem is worse than I thought.

2 things to add to this thread.

First, one has to realize the 1 in 142 figure actually understates the level of imprisonment. The "one out of 142" statistic is misleading as it is calculated by dividing total adults in prison by total population, including children.

If we look at adults only, there are 2.1 million adults in prison and 200 million adults in the USA (roughly out of our 280 million population), so we find that one out of 95 adults is in prison.

Let's look a little closer. There are 98 million adult males, and 1.9 million of them are incarcerated, so one out of every 52 adult males in the USA is in jail. (As opposed to only about one out of every 500 women).

And now let's just look at prison demographics for black males. Of the black males aged 20-39, one out of every eight is in jail. And that is only those CURRENTLY in jail, as opposed to those who were in jail at one time or another and then released.

To look at this another way:

South Africa under apartheid (1993), Black adult men: 851 per 100,000
U.S. (2001), Black adult men: 7,226 per 100,000

Second, to address the obvious question, well how many of them are actually non-violent offenders? A large share of the prison population are indeed non-violent offenders. Here are the official states from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

More than 60 percent of all prisoners are incarcerated for non-violent offenses. 92 percent of wardens believed "Greater use should be made of alternatives to incarceration." They also stated that, "On average half the offenders under their supervision could be released without endangering public safety."

In addition, some 13% of all black men are not allowed to vote in the United States due to prior criminal records.

The sentencing rate of whites to blacks for drug possession is 1 to 10.

Now that I look at all this stuff in context, I also see an interesting unexplored link to a previous thread on GG looking at the demographics of who is serving in the US armed forces over in Iraq. Demographics show the inner-cities and upper-middle/upper class groups are under-represented and that white poor to blue collar middle America groups are over-represented. It is my understanding that you may not serve in the US armed forces with a felony on your record. So maybe the numbers were lower for inner-city black males in the armed sevices since one in eight black men 20-39 is currently in jail, and certainly many more are not in jail presently but have a felony on their record. What this means is a large segment of young black men have felonies and are prohibited from military service. However, I remember from the military demographics thread that one inner-city poor black group was quite over-represented: single black mothers.

The prison numbers on their own are disturbing. When you think how the felonies now prevent basically a whole segment of our population participating in elections, the military, etc. it speaks to our how free is the US thread elsewhere on this forum. Personally, I am all for putting violent offenders in prison. But, I find it ludicrious that so many tax dollars go to placing people who are non-violent offenders into long mandatory min. prison terms.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
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people should stop committing crimes

jesus christ, is it that hard to abstain from committing crimes that send you to jail?
 
Oct 16, 1999
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Originally posted by: gopunk
people should stop committing crimes

jesus christ, is it that hard to abstain from committing crimes that send you to jail?

Apparently it is. But whether it's because we have too many crimes that send people to jail, or too many people that can't function in our society without being a criminal, I don't know. In either case, it is a very serious problem. Hell, it's an epidemic.
 

NeoPTLD

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

It's a bad cycle. Usually the poorer the criminals, the higher the chance they get the prison since they can't pay the civil penalty and/or the bail. The rich usually pays the fine and get off of it which gives gov't a revenue. When they incarcerate the poors, the gov't will spend more money keeping them locked up than what they pay in taxes further increasing tax spendings.

More prison expense means greater need to collect taxes. Greater need to collect taxes means higher rate and more financially constraint people becomes which leads to more crime.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

Do people who use drugs really need to be in jail?

That should answer your question.

They aren't in many other civilized countries, and their crime rate is much lower than ours. Although drug use is tolerated in the Netherlands, their addiction rate is lower than ours and their crime rate is lower than ours. Their money goes to drug treatment, not drug enforcement.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: gopunk
people should stop committing crimes

jesus christ, is it that hard to abstain from committing crimes that send you to jail?
Hey, Bush & Co believe abstinence will work for sex education, why not for crime prevention too?

"Stealing cars helps terrorism!"

"This is the TV that Joey stole, this is the fence that bought the TV Joey stole, this is the international terrorist that re-sold the TV that the fence bought from Joey. This is the family in Pangoria that the terrorist executed when they stopped making payments on their TV."
 

flxnimprtmscl

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

Do people who use drugs really need to be in jail?

That should answer your question.

Well, that's what the law allows isn't it? So really what kind of question is that? If the fact that people are commiting crimes and being punished within the boundries of the law upsets you maybe you should write your congressmen.

Or the real question... Do people really need to do drugs?
rolleye.gif
 

flxnimprtmscl

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: gopunk
people should stop committing crimes

jesus christ, is it that hard to abstain from committing crimes that send you to jail?
Hey, Bush & Co believe abstinence will work for sex education, why not for crime prevention too?

Well, surveys being taken are showing that fewer and fewer teens are having sex these days. What's just incredibly shocking is that there are also fewer teen pregnancies. I know, absolutely crazy but true. Pesky facts.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Sounds about right... we had ~300 students in our graduating HS class and AT LEAST 2 of them were 1st class A-holes who probably had a jail cell in their future. :D
 

SuperSix

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

No, they're just not killing enough.

amish


Here Here! <applause>

THey also need to legalize marijuana, and castrate sex offenders.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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The prison numbers on their own are disturbing. When you think how the felonies now prevent basically a whole segment of our population participating in elections, the military, etc. it speaks to our how free is the US thread elsewhere on this forum. Personally, I am all for putting violent offenders in prison. But, I find it ludicrious that so many tax dollars go to placing people who are non-violent offenders into long mandatory min. prison terms.

On some points I agree, but lumping all nonviolent offenders together is ludicrous. Nonviolence does not mean victims were not damaged in some way.

What about repeat offenders who commit burglaries, vandalism, theft or fraud? Incorrigibles should have long terms to protect society. That, or make it legal to shoot thieves.

Like I said in my previous post, we need to stop prosecuting people for victimless crimes and much of this problem will disappear.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
.

Or the real question... Do people really need to do drugs?
rolleye.gif


No, people do not need drugs. They do not need alcohol. They do not need cigarettes. They do not need sports cars.


Legality doesn't mean something's more morally right/wrong, it just means that's the current law where you're living at the moment. Alcohol was legal, then it was illegal, then it was legal again. If the a guy occasionally drank beer all his life, he'd be considered a law abiding citizen in the 1910's, a criminal during prohibition, and then a law abiding citizen again afterwards. Or if was illegal here and he travelled to a place that it was legal, does that change whether it's morally right/wrong to do? What you have is a country making rules, then trying to convince everyone that their rule is just, fair, and universally accepted.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

Do people who use drugs really need to be in jail?

That should answer your question.

The answer is a big YESSSSSSSSS!!!

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom"

 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
5,411
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Originally posted by: Amused
End the war on drugs, and much of this maddness will end.

come to berkeley and see for yourself how crappy a place would be if your entire city is festered with drugged out hobbos.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,357
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Originally posted by: ed21x
Originally posted by: Amused
End the war on drugs, and much of this maddness will end.

come to berkeley and see for yourself how crappy a place would be if your entire city is festered with drugged out hobbos.

They'll be on drugs whether or not they are illegal. Hasn't the abject failure of the War on Drugs taught you anything? Did the history of Prohibition escape you? Do you honestly think any signifigant number of people stay away from drugs only because they are illegal?

The fact of the matter is, the rate of drug abuse rises and falls on popular trends and education campaigns, not the effects of law enforcement. The only effect law enforcement has had is to drive drug distribution underground into dangerous gang controlled black markets... creating a huge crime wave we still suffer from. Exactly the same thing Prohibition caused in the 1920s.

In other words, the War on Drugs CREATES crime, it does not stop it.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
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Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
U.S. prisons and jails now hold record 2 million inmates

This really makes me sick. Do we really have that many people that deserve to be locked up, or is the government just putting too many people in jail?

Do people who use drugs really need to be in jail?

That should answer your question.

The answer is a big YESSSSSSSSS!!!

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom"

I never had a problem with people doing what they want, but as long as it is illegal then jail time for them. Legalize pot(I think it would be a good idea) and keep the hard drugs illegal. Pot is no worse than alcohol(minus no sobriety test for Pot).

 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Basically, it's a political issue.
One of the easiest ways for politicians to get reelected is to be "tough on crime" which means to vote for laws that increase terms of incarseration, criminalize more acts, make felonies out of misdemenors, etc.
One of the easiest ways for politicians to lose reelection is to be "soft on crime" by decreasing jail terms for crimes or decriminalizing something.
So because of that, sentences get longer and longer, and more and more stuff becomes criminal.
People still don't connect their higher taxes and higher incarseration costs in their minds. Also, prison guard unions are strong in states like CA, and they lobby for more spending on incarseration and attack politicians who are "soft on crime".