We ARE so lucky, Amnest Bill has started its deathrattle today

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
The amendment that the Senate refused to table, by a 52-45 vote, would have deleted requirements that by 2013 employers insist upon an identification card that meets the specifications of the 2005 Real ID Act. That law gives states financial incentives to require a tamper-proof driver's license.


You have to ask yourself, why in the hell would they offer this amendment up in the first place? We here all these stories about how "evil" businesses are the reason that illegals come here and yet the very same people hollaring are those trying to make sure it can continue?

Sorry, get those who employ and house them. If you house or employ without proof of legal citizenship you should be toast.


*** EDIT



The bipartisan coalition that had shepherded the measure through so many obstacles failed to get the 60 votes necessary to end debate. The final vote was 46-53

?What part of ?no? don?t we understand?,? asked Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who said the immigration fight had ?reengaged the American people.?

maybe they are getting the hint, I didn't think many Democratic voters supported either, but I would not be surprised if a number of their Congressmen ignored them like some of the Republican Congressmen ignore their voters
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,681
11,026
136
Agreed. Eliminate the sources of employment for the illegals and they'll stop coming here...

The fines for hiring an illegal alien should be so high that no one wants to take the chance of getting caught.


$100K per day per illegal in their employ would be a good starting place...

The vast majority of the "jobs Americans don't want" are actually jobs Americans won't do for the wages offered.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
With the massive amounts of money the Corporations are pouring into this attempt to replace American workers with cheaper imports it will be difficult to kill this bill.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
While I don't agree with a lot in the Amnesty Bill and yes I call it that as well, I think the worst of all our options is to do nothing. If some form of this doesn't pass this session, it won't come up again until after the '08 elections.

How many more illegals will be here by then?

We gotta seal the border now, then we can talk about getting the ones here some documents.

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,382
7,446
136
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Agreed. Eliminate the sources of employment for the illegals and they'll stop coming here...

The fines for hiring an illegal alien should be so high that no one wants to take the chance of getting caught.


$100K per day per illegal in their employ would be a good starting place...

The vast majority of the "jobs Americans don't want" are actually jobs Americans won't do for the wages offered.

:thumbsup:

Exactly, and why the hell do WE want to pay people so poorly that Americans won't take those jobs? Do we WANT extreme measures of poverty in this country? Do we have any CONCEPT of the volume and the crime such poverty creates? The big corporate corruption owns the supporters of amnesty.

To hell with them, it?s a broken system if it needs to function on poverty and it needs to end NOW!

Originally posted by: ayabe
While I don't agree with a lot in the Amnesty Bill and yes I call it that as well, I think the worst of all our options is to do nothing.

The bill makes it worse.

If we want to do something, STOP the employment entirely!
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
It's dead, Jim

Senate blocks immigration bill
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants, likely postponing major action on immigration until after the 2008 elections.

The bill's supporters fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to limit debate and clear the way for final passage of the legislation, which critics assailed as offering amnesty to illegal immigrants. The vote was 46 to 53 in favor of limiting the debate.
.
.
(continues)
I'm a lib who thinks this bill sucked, and I'm glad it's dead. Allowing those who entered the country illegally to cut in line to gain citizenship is manifestly unfair to those who did it legally and to all those who are still trying to do so. It undermines the basic principle of equal justice under law.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,456
854
126
Originally posted by: Shivetya
The amendment that the Senate refused to table, by a 52-45 vote, would have deleted requirements that by 2013 employers insist upon an identification card that meets the specifications of the 2005 Real ID Act. That law gives states financial incentives to require a tamper-proof driver's license.


You have to ask yourself, why in the hell would they offer this amendment up in the first place? We here all these stories about how "evil" businesses are the reason that illegals come here and yet the very same people hollaring are those trying to make sure it can continue?

Sorry, get those who employ and house them. If you house or employ without proof of legal citizenship you should be toast.

That will never happen. What do we do? Suddenly displace millions of people living here illegally? Would you rather have them in the streets? Sleeping on your front lawn? Overcrowding our parks and our jails?

We definitely need to crack down on those who employ illegal aliens though.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Who proposed that amendment? Shouldnt get a vote from anybody.

I really feel this issue needs to be addressed in some fashion. I think doing nothing results in the status quo which means millions more pouring over our border.

They really need to address three things and do them in seperate bills.

Border fence and security. This needs to be done pronto to cut the flow off and ensure people arent smuggling things into our nation we dont want.

Business needs to have more than a slap on the wrist if they hire illegals. But this also means we need laws that require background checks to certify who these people are.

Immigration process. We wont displace 12 million people and have no hope of catching them. I think one of the biggest problems with my side of the aisle is our desire to punish these people beyond reasonable means. Look they are here, they broke a law. Make them pay a fine, get them a visa, and get them assimilated into our society. If they close the border down to the point where the influx of people is minimal compared to now we shouldnt have millions of people breaking our laws coming here.

I also believe we need to streamline our process for immigration. There are people who live, work, and grow families here for years and never get citizenship. These people are obviously producing citizens, why the long process?

Anyways doing nothing keeps these 12 million people as an under class who wont assimilate into our culture nor be as productive as they could.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Harvey
[L=It's dead, Jim]
WASHINGTON - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants


One small portion of the seven years of destruction by Bush on it's way towards being corrected. :thumbsup:


 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,665
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
We wont displace 12 million people and have no hope of catching them. I think one of the biggest problems with my side of the aisle is our desire to punish these people beyond reasonable means. Look they are here, they broke a law. Make them pay a fine, get them a visa, and get them assimilated into our society. If they close the border down to the point where the influx of people is minimal compared to now we shouldnt have millions of people breaking our laws coming here.

Imposing a fine serves no purpose, because they will never pay it. They already broke the law and will continue breaking any related legislation until they get straight up freebee amnesty.

If we closeup their opportunity to work by vigorously going after the employers, and we very publicly start deporting them, then most will leave peacefully on their own accord.

I am so glad this bill is dead. The power of talk radio was key.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,730
2
81
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Shivetya
The amendment that the Senate refused to table, by a 52-45 vote, would have deleted requirements that by 2013 employers insist upon an identification card that meets the specifications of the 2005 Real ID Act. That law gives states financial incentives to require a tamper-proof driver's license.


You have to ask yourself, why in the hell would they offer this amendment up in the first place? We here all these stories about how "evil" businesses are the reason that illegals come here and yet the very same people hollaring are those trying to make sure it can continue?

Sorry, get those who employ and house them. If you house or employ without proof of legal citizenship you should be toast.</end quote></div>

That will never happen. What do we do? Suddenly displace millions of people living here illegally? Would you rather have them in the streets? Sleeping on your front lawn? Overcrowding our parks and our jails?

We definitely need to crack down on those who employ illegal aliens though.</end quote></div>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By making them citizens you are going to be displacing a majority of them anyway! They will automatically cost employers whom hired them as illegals with the concurrent low wages and no benefits at least minimum wage plus benefits and they will not pay for that.

Look at this article for example;

Hotel sought immigration audit of workers asserting their right to a living wage

Illegal immigrants working at that hotel wanted a better wage so the Hotel management called ICE to haul them off. They will no doubt be replaced by more illegals.

Even with the little additional enforcement even guaranteed in that idiotic bill illegal immigrants will still continue stream across by the millions. So if you think for one second all the employers will keep all the current illegal?s who get visas entitling to citizenship, minimum wage plus benefits on their payroll you?re crazy. THey will just be replaced by the next batch of illegals period!

The one sure thing that will happen is we will have millions of unemployed uneducated people becoming citizens whom will be forced to live off the government for their very existence. This is why even though you and a whole lot of other do not like it, they must be sent back, forcing their respective governments to change or be replaced. Otherwise they will keep churning out uneducated poor and sending them to the US and we will have another 20-30 million more mouths to feed 10-20 years down the road.

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,786
6,188
126
This is going to do for the GOP nationwide what prop 187 did for them in CA. They can't run fast enough from this issue. They are stuck between their base and the changing demographics.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,414
8,356
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Harvey
[L=It's dead, Jim]
WASHINGTON - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants</end quote></div>

One small portion of the seven years of destruction by Bush on it's way towards being corrected. :thumbsup:




how can something that was never implemented cause 'destruction' and then 'get corrected'
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Everyone wants to blame business for hiring illegals - has it occurred to anyone it is ILLEGAL for a employer to ask if a person is a U.S. Citizen.

How can we hold business responsible, when they can get sued for evening asking about it?
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: shrumpage
Everyone wants to blame business for hiring illegals - has it occurred to anyone it is ILLEGAL for a employer to ask if a person is a U.S. Citizen.

How can we hold business reasonable, when they can get sued for evening asking about it?
EVERY job application I have filled out since the 80's has asked if I can LEGALLY work in the US.

 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Harvey
[L=It's dead, Jim]
WASHINGTON - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants</end quote></div>

One small portion of the seven years of destruction by Bush on it's way towards being corrected. :thumbsup:

Next step is to get rid of the party system.

Cause if Hillary takes office the only thing she will do is get rid of violet video games and make it illegal to burn the flag. After those 2 HUGE pressing issues who knows what she will get going on.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: shrumpage
Everyone wants to blame business for hiring illegals - has it occurred to anyone it is ILLEGAL for a employer to ask if a person is a U.S. Citizen.

How can we hold business reasonable, when they can get sued for evening asking about it?</end quote></div>
EVERY job application I have filled out since the 80's has asked if I can LEGALLY work in the US.

Isn't that question on the W4, a federal form?
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: shrumpage
Everyone wants to blame business for hiring illegals - has it occurred to anyone it is ILLEGAL for a employer to ask if a person is a U.S. Citizen.

How can we hold business reasonable, when they can get sued for evening asking about it?</end quote></div>
EVERY job application I have filled out since the 80's has asked if I can LEGALLY work in the US.

Yet if i ask you as an employer if you are a US citizen, or provide proof that you are - I can get fined/sued.




 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,681
11,026
136
Originally posted by: shrumpage
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: TheSlamma
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: shrumpage
Everyone wants to blame business for hiring illegals - has it occurred to anyone it is ILLEGAL for a employer to ask if a person is a U.S. Citizen.

How can we hold business reasonable, when they can get sued for evening asking about it?</end quote></div>
EVERY job application I have filled out since the 80's has asked if I can LEGALLY work in the US.

</end quote></div>

Yet if i ask you as an employer if you are a US citizen, or provide proof that you are - I can get fined/sued.
I believe EVERY employer in the USA is required to fill out an I-9 form which is your proof to work legally in the country.

http://www.formi9.com/i-9.pdf

"Anti-Discrimination Notice. It is illegal to discriminate against any individual (other than an alien not authorized to work in the
U.S.)
in hiring, discharging, or recruiting or referring for a fee because of that individual's national origin or citizenship status. It is illegal to
discriminate against work eligible individuals. Employers CANNOT specify which document(s) they will accept from an employee. The
refusal to hire an individual because of a future expiration date may also constitute illegal discrimination."
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
i heard on the news this morning that the senate switchboard was shutdown due to being overloaded. that says a lot, the people of this country are totally against this bill.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
AS long as there are hundreds of billions of dollars to be made by Corporations if the bill is passed, or some verison of it, the bill is NOT dead.