Yet we never do anything to stop them. Perhaps we feel as if we cannot do anything. The system is too big and we can't fight it, even if we all got together. Maybe some of us are eating our cake, and can't be bothered to look at the reality of things. Then there are some that don't give a sh!t and will never give a sh!t, so they are of no use either. Why do we let Politicians get away with all the crap they do?
We are all a bunch of idiots
- Thread starter Mill
- Start date
2016 - write me in for president. You can be VP.Originally posted by: conjur
Perhaps if we all quit our jobs and ran for office?
IOW, *I'll* get to run the show like the current VP?Originally posted by: CycloWizard
2016 - write me in for president. You can be VP.Originally posted by: conjur
Perhaps if we all quit our jobs and ran for office?
To honestly answer Mill's OP, I feel our media is a big contributing factor. They report what and how they feel they'll get the best ratings in order to keep the ad revenue coming in. And the American public are at fault for watching and listening to commentary shows and accepting the dialog as actual news instead of what it truly is: opinion...often incredibly-biased opinion. People don't want to be educated, they want to be entertained. That's why the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Franken, etc. are much more commonly known than, say, Hersh or Woodward.
I think it's high-time the American public started demanding their elected leaders hold regular town hall-type sessions with their constituency.
I have a theory that no one can attain enough popularity and resources to be an active politician unless they are corrupt. Corrupt being defined as anyone who has gotten gains by taking advantage of another human being. Think bankers, lawyers and doctors. Best examples. They have to want to lust for more than money. For some politicians, money is only neccessary as the ladder to power. What they lust after is power and the ultimate power is over life and death. That is the reason that we must always limit the power that any politician can achieve through a system of balances. We need them to do what they do and normal people wouldn't want to do what they do, so they are a neccessary evil that must be given the power required to serve, but still be controlled.
That's probably the single best comment you ever wrote. I can't agree more.
Except that most of us aren't idiots but victims of circumstance and life. Not everyone is rich or politically savvy or have insane social skills that allow them to garner as much attention as a movie star. Not everyone is born or brought up equally, regardless of what some would like people to think.
Look at me I'm a perfect example. I bitch, I whine, I don't do anything about it other then keep informing myself with the goings on with the current system the Libertarian parties in the US and the remains thereof in Canada. Why? Because that's all I can do. I'm too shy for public speaking, it scares me to death and I sometimes sound like a fumbling bafoon if I do, I'm not rich so I can't try to run for office locally and my principles don't allow me to take money from special interest groups or big business so nobody with money would want to even spit in my general direction let alone fund me, even if all this wasn't the case I don't have the articulate skills required to be a politician (I'm too blunt).
The problem is that the system corrupts. You can introduce new, non-corrupt officials into the mix, ut the will invariably get sucked in and will become part of the problem.
Well, isn't this what happens when you don't have anyone to hold accountable for what happens in said country? (No, I'm not just refering to Bush, but politicians in general) Sooner or later the people wont be able to do anything because their voice has been drowned out by bureaucracy. This is the ugly side of democracy. People can bitch and moan, but they can't really do anything about it. At least not the average joe. They would need money, power or fame behind them to make any kind of change.
Maybe we should just abolish the current system and start over? And this time make sure to specify who's responsible for what.
Maybe we should just abolish the current system and start over? And this time make sure to specify who's responsible for what.
Originally posted by: JackStorm
Well, isn't this what happens when you don't have anyone to hold accountable for what happens in said country? (No, I'm not just refering to Bush, but politicians in general) Sooner or later the people wont be able to do anything because their voice has been drowned out by bureaucracy. This is the ugly side of democracy. People can bitch and moan, but they can't really do anything about it. At least not the average joe. They would need money, power or fame behind them to make any kind of change.
Maybe we should just abolish the current system and start over? And this time make sure to specify who's responsible for what.
You make Thomas Jefferson proud
:thumbsup:
Does anyone think we'll ever have another 'common man' elected as president, or will we continue to be assaulted by jillionaires belonging to the Stonecutters?
Hayabusa Rider
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Why you are starting to sound like the "liberals" here
I think you have pretty well hit on it. I would disagree in that there are politicians who DO want the best for those they represent. My feeling is that politics is a Darwinistically controlled activity. The ones who do not follow the party mandate (written and unwritten) are discarded even if they were better at leading.
You cite something that I maintain is a conflation of democracy and freedom. Today many think that by having a democracy you have freedom, and that a freedom only exists within a democracy. I argue they are seperate things.
Certainly it's easier to be free in a democracy than a totalitarian society. Yet is it possible that de facto Totalarianism can exist in a democracy? Consider your point Condor. If politicians main goals are power over all other considerations, and there is a two party system that controls the government, and not the represented are we truely living in a democratic society? When both parties are first for themselves, what real choices are there? It's more illusion than anything else. The difference is that our kings generally leave us alone, but a party is a dynasty. It's a Hobson's choice.
The other point is that freedom is not restricted or tied to a vote. I think my democracy a sham, yet I have relatively few restrictions on my behavior. Same in most countries. In fact the same in some non democratic societies.
Not everyone makes the same choices as you or I. Freedom is about self determination at an individual and societal level.
Honestly. Not in our lifetime.
Maybe someday. It would take massive reforms that would require the inprisonment of tens of thousands of politicians and their supporters who undermine a country for their own benefits.
Short of a revolution I don't see it happening and even then I don't see it staying true for very long. Eventually corrupt people who are rich or have enough clout will seek power and they will simply reuse the tools that have been used by corrupt politicians before to get into power.
I honestly don't think there's a way around it unless a new Constitution is written that clearly states that it's a criminal act to even attempt to change parts of the law, such as those that hold those in power accountable for their actions.
heh again not in our lifetime
If you can't beat them, join them. Make the system work for you. There always has been corruption, there is corruption, and there will always be corruption. If you can set aside your ideals, you shouldn't have any trouble working within the system.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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Sounds great!
How are you going to do it? How can YOU do it? Remember, everyone IS out to get you.
Tell us how you make the words reality.
If you think the common people are above corruption and petty politics, I suggest you take a look at the users and...err...users of this forum
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
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Originally posted by: alchemize
If you think the common people are above corruption and petty politics, I suggest you take a look at the users and...err...users of this forum
True, but most of them have little or no control over your life. Not the same in DC
Yeah I know you were making a joke.
There is nothing common about being above corruption.
I think for the most part we all feel the same way, but in order to do something that will deliver a lasting impression, on ewould have to have plenty of money, not to mention other resources at their disposal. Let alone the time envolved in trying to take one of these politicians.
I agree with you both, and I don't think we'll get a truly honest person into an office of consequence until we change how the system works. What's interesting is that at the local level you can find politicians that are honest and truly care about the voters. Not too often, but it happens. The reason it happens is that on the small scale a person can get enough popularity and resources to be active without being corrupt. But as Condor said, I don't think this is possible at the national level.
Thank you for missing the point of Democracy. The idea isn't to make the system work for YOU, the idea is to make the system work for the voters who elected you.
Not every one is here is just a whiner and not trying to do something.
I myself have attended Political Meetings both in Georgia and now Louisiana.
If I was a Rich Elitist I would do even more but I have most of my time tied up at a JOB and still barely getting by.
Why do you say I said anything about fearing JOB???
Americans should fear $6 hr JOB because that is what the Non-Rich, Non Elitists are headed for.
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