Watercooling help needed

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I was thinking of building a loop for my cpu. I have a cooler master atcs 840 case. There is a place on the top for 360 rad but I read its best to have res above rad. This would be impossible for me. Also how do I bleed a loop with res. Should I go with just a T. Whats some good brands. Also would like my watercooling loop to be able to go to core i7 when ready. Would this just require different block? What do you think of the pre built kits?

 

[Blain]

Why do you want to water cool your system?

 

[Billb2]

The rez does not have to be above anything.
Many people prefer a T-line because it's simpler/cheaper to install, though it does make bleeding slower in most cases.

Bleeding is accomplished by just filling the loop and starting the pump. Any air in the system will "bleed out" into the rez/T-line. You may have to add water to replace the air thet comes out. Shaking the case, and/or starting and stopping the pump will likely be necessary to get all the air out.

If you purchase a block that has mounting options for a i7 then you'll be fine.

Prebuilt kits are almost universally junk. There are a few exceptions. Petra' Shop's and the Swiftech's high end kits are pretty good.

You may want to plan now for expanding your loop to include video card(s) in the future.

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: Blain
Why do you want to water cool your system?

AH! Good question!

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
I was thinking of building a loop for my cpu. I have a cooler master atcs 840 case. There is a place on the top for 360 rad but I read its best to have res above rad. This would be impossible for me. Also how do I bleed a loop with res. Should I go with just a T. Whats some good brands. Also would like my watercooling loop to be able to go to core i7 when ready. Would this just require different block? What do you think of the pre built kits?

You do not need to have the res above the rad and in most cases (like yours), this simply is not practical.

As Aigo stated in this stickie it is much quicker to bleed a loop with a res than it is just using a T-line. Ideally, you can use both; the benefits of using the res is that it is easy to top up the loop with water and it is quicker to bleed and the T-line can be used to drain the system. I would also recommend having a separate fillport (i.e. a fillport in the top of the case with a tube leading down into the res) because this means that the place where you fill the loop is remote to the inside of the case containing all your expensive electronics.

The Bleeding Process:
When you first fill the loop you must completely fill the res up to the brim, because the pump cannot be run 'dry'. Since the rest of the loop does not have any water in it to begin with, the pump with quickly reduce the water level in the res as the rest of the loop/components fill, so you have to continually top the res up. The pump will also sound noisy to begin with. As the loop completely fills with water with you topping it up, the air will be forced (with some persuation by gently rocking the case to-and-fro to get the air out of the nooks and crannies) around to the res and out through the fillport, which must be left open during the bleeding process. As the system bleeds (i.e. all the air comes out) the pump will get quieter and quieter. You will know when all the air is out because the pump will stop sounding like a bag of hammers.

A lot of water blocks come with universal mounting plates, which are suitable for several socket sizes (i.e. AM2/3, LGA775 and LGA1366). If the water block doesn't come with a universal LGA775 / LGA1366 mounting plate, then you can usually buy the LGA1366 mounting plate separately.

Before we go into what parts we would recommend, what is your budget and what are you wanting to water cool (i.e. what CPU is it) and why?

Edit: Billb2 beat me to it

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

The block I'm selling is a universal 775 & 1366 EK Supreme with 1/2" barbs.

Leave the pre-built kits on the shelf where they belong. The rest we'll help you with

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why watercool? Looks cool to me and also want 4+ghz oc cpu maybe 4.2ghz. 200 dollar budget. Where is the air going to escape to when bleeding?The fillport? Is that where you are putting water in outside of case?

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
Why watercool? Looks cool to me and also want 4+ghz oc cpu maybe 4.2ghz. 200 dollar budget. Where is the air going to escape to when bleeding?The fillport? Is that where you are putting water in outside of case?

You top up the res using the fill port (aptly named). The air also escapes from the fillport.

Remember that if the loop is completely sealed (i.e. the fillport is closed) then there is no where for the air to escape to, hence the need for the fillport to be open during the bleeding process.

Why watercool? Looks cool to me and also want 4+ghz oc cpu maybe 4.2ghz.

Fair enough. That's one of the reasons I did it.

A $200 budget is going to be tight for a CPU only loop with 360mm long rad (you mentioned this in the OP), CPU block, res, pump, and associated tubing, barbs, etc. You probably don't need the 360mm long rad though; you can probably get by with a 240mm long rad. You can further reduce costs by getting second hand parts.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

You simply turn the case what ever way you can to bring the bubbles towards the T I recommend putting the T line on the top or at the highest place you can. Once the air bubble reaches that point, release the cap and re-fill the air pocket.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
You simply turn the case what ever way you can to bring the bubbles towards the T I recommend putting the T line on the top or at the highest place you can. Once the air bubble reaches that point, release the cap and re-fill the air pocket.

If the OP goes for a MCP355, then he will likely have to get the XSPC top. I personnally would fork out (and I did) the extra <$20 for the XSPC res / top.

Below is a quote for a CPU only loop Aigo specified for some one else. This will give you an idea of cost (although savings can be made by changing / removing some parts).

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Scionix
Alright, here's my list. Do I have everything?

Radiator: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835108098

Pump: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835108082

Tubing: http://www.petrastechshop.com/7id5odmagepu.html

Block: http://www.frozencpu.com/produ...LGA1366_Included_.html

Barbs/Fittings: http://www.acousticpc.com/fitt...mps_misc_hardware.html

Reservior: http://www.xoxide.com/swiftech-mcres-micro.html

Dye: http://www.frozencpu.com/produ...Red_FV-0012.html#blank

And obviously the distilled water.

Am I set?

You might want to check out jab-tech and sidewindercomputers.com. All those vendors your jumping around, the shipping will own you.

My recomendations:

For your rad assy:
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-R...-radiator-pr-4384.html $94.95
+
http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-L...igh-Speed-pr-3771.html x 3 $11.10
+
http://www.jab-tech.com/Sunbea...Kit-BLACK-pr-2530.html $12.95

For your pump Assembly:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Swifte...v-DC-Pump-pr-3510.html $64.95
+
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-A...Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html $39.95
This is a combo res pump top. It makes your pump into a res and its one heck of a performing top.

Cpu Block:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Swifte...aterblock-pr-4246.html $61.95

its a very flexable block, meaning if you want to add something else to your loop, the block will allow that. Its not the best performing block, but its better then supreme your looking at.

Tubing:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Master...ID-5-8-OD-pr-3079.html x 15 feet. Assuming OOPS factor.
$8.85

+
http://www.jab-tech.com/Bitspo...WP-C01-pr-4397.html x 6 $19.20

I HIGHLY recomend you changing your barbs. Those are also silver plated barbs, so the silver will act as a anti microbe.

Coolant:
Do you really want color? If you dont need the color, plain old distilled. Goto the super market, get a bottle of distilled, NOT drinking, but Distilled, and use that.

Your die wont last very long, and it will only speed up clouding on your tubing. How about colored tubing instead?
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-7...ve-Orange-pr-4236.html

Use Zipties as clamps.

The total cost is $313.90 exc. shipping.

You can ditch the Sunbeam fan controller and save $12.95 and also substitute the rad for the Swiftech MCR220 for $41.95 (minus $3.70 for two fans, not three). This brings the total down to $255.30 exc. shipping.

If you go with the XSPC top instead of the XSPC top/res then you save a further $21 bringing the total to $234.30 exc. shipping. You will need to use a T-line though and you will need to buy a T-piece and stopper or ball-valve. This will cost you $5-10 in parts.

Edit: Oops, just realised that you would need two fans not three if you are using the MCR220. Edited the costs to suit.

 

[Gillbot]

You can also browse the FS/FT and find deals to lower your cost even further.

 

[daw123]

Gillbot is right that if you want to keep on or below your $200 budget you simply can't achieve it with new parts. This is evident with the costings I included in my previous post.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Thanks for the help guys. Ill have to look over that parts list when I get more time. A little over 200 not bad. Will probably get those exact parts

 

[LOUISSSSS]

you won't be able to get a good enough system for $200 unless u find some KILLER used deals..

i set my budget on $250 and ended up spending around $400-500...

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Yeah, its close to 500$ after I bought that dremmel kit and all the other little knick knacks...

EK Supreme LT 775 & 1366
355 pump
MCR 320 Rad
XSPC Res-Top for pump
7/16" ID Tubing, T's, 1/2" ID Barbs, Grommets, 1" spade bit, 4-1/2" hole saw, fill ports, 120mm fan shrouds, ...

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[Blain]

I personally don't see the benefit from spending lots of cash on water cooling to reach a certain speed rating, when that money could simply be used to buy a good OCing CPU and quality heatsink.

I thought the water cooling fad had more or less died out with the great OCing C2D processors.
OILFIELDTRASH, you give us only the skimpiest information of an end speed of 4-4.2GHz. and a $200 budget.
You'll find that you get far more accurate and pertinent informatoin out of these forums when you provide as much detail about your goals and equipment as you can.

What we need to know to help you reach your goals are...
* Exactly what hardware components you now own
* The types of applications you run
* Your skill level in hardware assembly
* Your total budget

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

It was winter for me and I needed something to do to pass the time. In my first experience of the seeing a need for H20 cooling, came from overclocking an FX60 to hells end. In the winter time it was fine but as soon as this back room started reaching 75*f -- 130*f was normal for my FX60. Even with some nice HS&F's

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
you won't be able to get a good enough system for $200 unless u find some KILLER used deals..

i set my budget on $250 and ended up spending around $400-500...

Speak for yourself. I had a really good loop put together for about $75. MCP655-B pump, Heatercore Radiator, Apogee GT Waterblock and Sunon 120MM fans with all new Masterkleer tubing. IMHO, none of the deals I found were "killer" either. They were about typical for used parts.

Originally posted by: Blain
I personally don't see the benefit from spending lots of cash on water cooling to reach a certain speed rating, when that money could simply be used to buy a good OCing CPU and quality heatsink.

+1

99% of the time, people try water cooling to reach a certain over clock on their chip. Water cooling will NOT help unless you are temperature limited on your OC. Water cooling is NOT a magic speed generator for CPUs.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Let me start off by stating what kind of hardware I have

cpu-Q9400 oc 3.75 voltage 1.31 in bios/cpu-z shows 1.280

heatsink-domino alc cpu cooler

case-cooler master atcs 840 case

mobo-ga-ep45-ud3p

ram-gskill 1066 ddr2 running 1:1 938

What kind of temps would I be getting out of this watercooling setup using 240 rad(cpu only loop)? Right now I'm using a domino alc cpu cooler and getting 71c max temp intel burn test. I have almost had 4.0 stable but cpu was too hot and I think it needed even more voltage.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I have my setup (sig) using 1.425vcore and I still reach 71*c in 71*f ambients running IBT or LinX but average loads running prime95 are about 55-60*c in around 74*f ambients. Lets just say my fans are good but not optimal. I opted for quiet fans.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
Let me start off by stating what kind of hardware I have

cpu-Q9400 oc 3.75 voltage 1.31 in bios/cpu-z shows 1.280

heatsink-domino alc cpu cooler

case-cooler master atcs 840 case

mobo-ga-ep45-ud3p

ram-gskill 1066 ddr2 running 1:1 938

What kind of temps would I be getting out of this watercooling setup using 240 rad(cpu only loop)? Right now I'm using a domino alc cpu cooler and getting 71c max temp intel burn test. I have almost had 4.0 stable but cpu was too hot and I think it needed even more voltage.

We can't say what temps you'll hit. That depends on the block, radiator, fans and ambient temperature.

 

[Beanie46]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

We can't say what temps you'll hit. That depends on the block, radiator, fans and ambient temperature.

How true....and that's one unrealistic expectation so many people try to fulfill by getting into watercooling and one major reason people then become disillusioned by it.....the second is not being able to overclock any better on water vs. the better air coolers.

As Aigo and a host of others have stated over and over, esp. on XS, you get into watercooling because it is probably going to be quieter vs. comparably performing air cooling and it's just another hobby outlet within computers overall.

One may be able to drop temps a bit, but no guarantees exist for that at all. One may be able to overclock a tad higher using water vs. air cooling, but again...no guarantees exist. You should be able to run more voltage through your cpu and keep temps around what you achieve now with air, but again, there's more to getting high overclocks than just the cooling....component choice has a LOT to do with it.


And I've been watercooling for almost 3 years now......running a Q9550 with a very mild OC to 3.75mHz at 1.2V, getting idle temps at around 30-31C, using a HK LT block, DDC2 pump, TFC 240 rad w/S-Flex "F" fans, LRT 3/8" tubing. Unfortunately, my motherboard seems to be my OC limiting factor, not temps. I haven't broached cpu temps over 56-58C during OCCT runs. But I just cannot get to 4GHz no matter what I do......guess my X38 mb just isn't an OC'ing king.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

My vcore on my Q9650 is 1.42 in OS I can run it at 4Ghz and not hit 60*c in gaming. IBT or LinX will heat it up to 71*c but prime and others won't reach that.

I did it so I can achieve a stable High overclock without burning up the chip via heat-output. So in a way you water-cool to achieve a higher overclock.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
My vcore on my Q9650 is 1.42 in OS I can run it at 4Ghz and not hit 60*c in gaming. IBT or LinX will heat it up to 71*c but prime and others won't reach that.

I did it so I can achieve a stable High overclock without burning up the chip via heat-output. So in a way you water-cool to achieve a higher overclock.

Which is just another spin on what i've already said:

Originally posted by: Gillbot
99% of the time, people try water cooling to reach a certain over clock on their chip. Water cooling will NOT help unless you are temperature limited on your OC. Water cooling is NOT a magic speed generator for CPUs.