Water or Air? for i7-3770K to 4.5GHz

[UaVaj]

Looking to O/C i7-3770K to to 4.5GHz.

Considering:
Water - Corsair H80 ($85 Local - New)
12.8C High / 14.9C Low (150w Test)
59dB High / 44dB Low

Air - 212 Evo ($30 Amazon)
15.9C High / 34.8C Low (150w Test)
47dB High / 30dB Low
Mods: Push-Pull-DuckTape ($5 eBay) and 120mm 5.25Bay Fan ($37 Shipped) and 120mm Rear Case Fan ($5 eBay)

Will be installed in an enclosed Lian Li case. Priorities are: Temp, Noise, Cost.

 

[SFC_Mac]

If air, I'd consider the Noctua D14. I have it and it's a beast. Seems to have got far better reviews then the 212 Evo.

 

[UaVaj]

Thanks for recommendation. Keep in mind this will go into an enclosed case.

Noctura D14 ($81 NewEgg)
14.5C High / 17.0C Low (150w Test)
48dB High / 31dB Low

This setup will still requires 120mm 5.25Bay Fan ($37 Shipped) and 120mm Rear Case Fan ($5 eBay)

At this price point. H80 makes more economic sense. or go with H100 if it would fit, sadly does not fit.

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With Noctua D14 - wonder what kind of performance and noise with following mods: 3 120mm fan in push-pull-pull-ducktape.

 

[Face2Face]

Here you go.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2297442

 

[Eureka]

Unless you get a H100i or a X60, you'll do better with a D14 in temperatures. Not sure about noise but those big 140mm fans aren't loud either. Finally, for price, a H212 Evo will cool probably 80-90% as well as a D14 or H100 at a quarter of the price.

 

[tweakboy]

Looking to O/C i7-3770K to to 4.5GHz.

Considering:
Water - Corsair H80 ($85 Local - New)
12.8C High / 14.9C Low (150w Test)
59dB High / 44dB Low

Air - 212 Evo ($30 Amazon)
15.9C High / 34.8C Low (150w Test)
47dB High / 30dB Low
Mods: Push-Pull-DuckTape ($5 eBay) and 120mm 5.25Bay Fan ($37 Shipped) and 120mm Rear Case Fan ($5 eBay)

Will be installed in an enclosed Lian Li case. Priorities are: Temp, Noise, Cost.

Depends on sound. If you dont care about sound go do with hs air cooling. If you want to have a RADiator you can have 2 120x blowing @ 1300rpm very silent. Air will sound like a JET!

Grab a all in one Liquid . Thermaltake and corshair use same parts and look very close to each other. Any of those will do , cost about 80 to 100 dollars. Youll slow down the fans or buy silent fans blowing on the rad. instead of the evo blow loudly on the heatsink. GL

 

[Idontcare]

Will be installed in an enclosed Lian Li case. Priorities are: Temp, Noise, Cost.

I have the NH-D14 as well as the H100, plus other coolers, and the 3770K.

I got to tell you, for a 4.5GHz OC you really don't want to throw close to $100 at it. Waste of money for the paltry performance gains your OC is going to get you.

You got to be practical about this if you are serious that Noise and Cost are a concern. Temp is not a concern, temp is ok up to 105C for this processor. Do not let yourself falsely become overly concerned with temp.

Only be worried about temp in the context that temperatures ultimately can limit your OC.

But getting back to being sensible. With the stock HSF you can most likely OC your 3770K to 4.2GHz and be still be LinX stable.

So you can use what is basically free and comes with your CPU purchase, the stock HSF, and walk away with 4.2GHz performance or you can start spending even more money to gain a few more MHz in OC.

What is your money worth to you? 4.2GHz to 4.5 GHz is a paltry 7% increase in clockspeed, which might net you 5% increase in performance once you factor in scaling penalties with real world apps.

Is 5% performance worth another $100? $80? $60?

Only you can decide how much your money is worth to you. Likewise the noise.

If noise is really a concern then you can replace the stock fans on these coolers, as I did, and really drive the decibels down...but at a cost.

I've done all of the above, and I have two 3770k's. One of them is running with its stock HSF. The price/performance curve for 3rd party cooling is silly steep and not in a good way.

Don't get me wrong, I like my H100 and my D14, but they do not return the kind of performance boost you might think they would given their rather outsized cost when compared to how many GHz you can already obtain with the hardware you already paid for.

 

[Vectronic]

Cooling: NH-D14 > 9900Max (by 3°C)
Looks: 9900Max > NH-D14
Price: 9900Max > NH-D14 ($60 vs $90 Canadian... 9900 is $40 after rebate)

Function: 9900Max *without* it's fan, will run better than the stock cooler in a 1+1 intake/exhaust case. (at stock speeds)

May not be particularly useful, but I'm bored and that's all I have that's relevant...lol

 

[Plimogz]

[...]The price/performance curve for 3rd party cooling is silly steep and not in a good way.[...]

True enough... But the 212+ (not sure about the Evo, but the improvement was very minor, so whatever) can regularly be had for 20$. At which point it would enable not only the slight bump from 4.2 to 4.5 (which you put at 5% performance) but also be considerably quieter than the Intel stock, which has a value all it's own.

If we put the price of 3770K at 300$, the comfortable 7% increase in CPU clocks for 20$ is pretty close to a linear increase in performance/cost -- which is always decent towards the upper end. Never mind when total system cost is considered. Even for 30$, I think the 212 can be easily argued for as a cheap means to hit a decently higher overclock for the money.

Of course, you're completely right about the cost/performance curve being silly steep with regards to the high-end consumer solutions. But, you know, enthusiasts (*ahem)... What can you do?

@OP: I say take a page from IDC's book and OC conservatively to 4.2 on the stock solution until you can get a better deal on the 212 and then buy it on sale and have fun tweaking your system a little further. This would nicely cover your temp/noise/cost priorities @ the 4.5GHz target.

edit: Oh, and I don't think it right to factor in the 5$ for the roll of duct tape as part of the cost for this upgrade: After all, it really only uses up a tiny fraction of a roll and you can find a million more uses for it afterwards. Frankly, I think that the real question here isn't what cooling solution you should eventually opt for, but rather how can you not already have a roll of duct tape handy?

 

[UaVaj]

4.5GHz is the target, anything above 4.5 will be bonus, 5GHz will be stoked.

prefer air cool over water cool. air cool is simplier.

as for performance. ambient temperature will be ~27C. comfort level says 90C should be the max temp at any given time 24/7 full load.

as for noise. the stock HSF setup is a bit too obvious during load. something quieter will be necessary. base on guru3d's reviews. definitely 40dBA or less.

as for cost. $100 is the budget. the lesser the better. more than $100 is okay too, however it had better be promising with money back guarantee.

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idontcare - thanks for that info. perhap a NH-D14 is necessary.

plimgz - that $5 was for the second 120mm fan, not the ducktape. 212 evo only comes with 1 fan.

 

[BrightCandle]

I thought for a second there this thread would be considering a water loop, call me disappointed.

If you are considering prebuilt water kit I wouldn't bother, just go for the air cooling. The performance/noise of the prebuilt water coolers are terrible in comparison to custom loops (price wise they are a lot better of course).

As far as I can tell the best thing you can do to improve temperatures on Ivy is to delid your CPU and replace the thermal paste with something better. That is worth more than the difference between these coolers.

PS avoid these synthetic tests, there are wild differences from them to what actually happens on a real CPU. The amount of bow in the heatsink and CPU makes a lot of difference in practice.

 

[Idontcare]

True enough... But the 212+ (not sure about the Evo, but the improvement was very minor, so whatever) can regularly be had for 20$. At which point it would enable not only the slight bump from 4.2 to 4.5 (which you put at 5% performance) but also be considerably quieter than the Intel stock, which has a value all it's own.

If we put the price of 3770K at 300$, the comfortable 7% increase in CPU clocks for 20$ is pretty close to a linear increase in performance/cost -- which is always decent towards the upper end. Never mind when total system cost is considered. Even for 30$, I think the 212 can be easily argued for as a cheap means to hit a decently higher overclock for the money.

Of course, you're completely right about the cost/performance curve being silly steep with regards to the high-end consumer solutions. But, you know, enthusiasts (*ahem)... What can you do?

@OP: I say take a page from IDC's book and OC conservatively to 4.2 on the stock solution until you can get a better deal on the 212 and then buy it on sale and have fun tweaking your system a little further. This would nicely cover your temp/noise/cost priorities @ the 4.5GHz target.

edit: Oh, and I don't think it right to factor in the 5$ for the roll of duct tape as part of the cost for this upgrade: After all, it really only uses up a tiny fraction of a roll and you can find a million more uses for it afterwards. Frankly, I think that the real question here isn't what cooling solution you should eventually opt for, but rather how can you not already have a roll of duct tape handy?

Ironically I just bought a 212 EVO to replace the stock HSF on the 3770k

4.5GHz is the target, anything above 4.5 will be bonus, 5GHz will be stoked.

prefer air cool over water cool. air cool is simplier.

as for performance. ambient temperature will be ~27C. comfort level says 90C should be the max temp at any given time 24/7 full load.

as for noise. the stock HSF setup is a bit too obvious during load. something quieter will be necessary. base on guru3d's reviews. definitely 40dBA or less.

as for cost. $100 is the budget. the lesser the better. more than $100 is okay too, however it had better be promising with money back guarantee.

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idontcare - thanks for that info. perhap a NH-D14 is necessary.

plimgz - that $5 was for the second 120mm fan, not the ducktape. 212 evo only comes with 1 fan.

For $100 you want the NH-D14 and use the extra budget to buy 3 new fans. The two that come with the NH-D14 are not PWM and you will want PWM controlled by your mobo's CPU fan header to maximize the noise reduction opportunity.

And you really do want 3 fans on that NH-D14 if your clearance will allow for such a config. The NH-D14 is ideally configured for 3 fans, push and pull plus one in the middle.

Get yourself one of these PWM cable splitters so you can hook all three fans into the same PWM CPU fan header on the mobo.

For some recent fan review data see these two reviews at xbit.

120mm Fan Roundup: 1350 RPM and Higher Rotation Speeds

120mm Fan Roundup: 1350 RPM or Lower Rotation Speed

If you look out for good deals then you can pick up highly rated fans for nearly $10 each. I just bought some of these LEPA fans each for $12/shipped, and they were well rated for CFM/dB by xbitlabs.

I thought for a second there this thread would be considering a water loop, call me disappointed.

If you are considering prebuilt water kit I wouldn't bother, just go for the air cooling. The performance/noise of the prebuilt water coolers are terrible in comparison to custom loops (price wise they are a lot better of course).

As far as I can tell the best thing you can do to improve temperatures on Ivy is to delid your CPU and replace the thermal paste with something better. That is worth more than the difference between these coolers.

PS avoid these synthetic tests, there are wild differences from them to what actually happens on a real CPU. The amount of bow in the heatsink and CPU makes a lot of difference in practice.

Its been a long time since I've seen a custom-water rig that actually delivered higher clocks for CPUs. GPUs the opportunity is still there, but CPUs these days seem to be voltage limited before being temperature limited once you bolt on a $100 all-in-one waterloop like the H100.

Custom water still wins out on noise reduction, but holy hell are you paying a price premium for that noise reduction

Vaporphase cooling died for the same reason. My $1k vapoLS is sitting unused in my basement, sure it works but my chips are already operating at a voltage value that makes it questionable to push harder versus the minimal clockspeed gains that can be gained.

That wasn't true with 65nm chips, those were temperature limited long before you ran into their volt limits. But those days are gone.

I'm surprised your 3930k is only clocked to 4.4GHz, why do you keep your clocks so low? For a custom water loop I really expected you to be hitting closer to 5GHz.

 

[ClockHound]

Ummm...I'm pretty new at this fluid dynamics math thing, but on the NH-D14 wouldn't you rather have 140mm fans rather than 120mm for better airflow with less noise at a lower RPM? Perhaps even Noctura's own NF-A15 PWM. Or the LEAP 140mm PWM model. Or the Prolimatech 140mm PWM. My 2 CFM.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I won't consider water cooling in any shape or form for anything, really.

 

[Vectronic]

I won't consider water cooling in any shape or form for anything, really.

U mad bro?... someone leak on your CPU flakes?

Do tell, why won't you consider water cooling? I'm a bit suspicious of the block + pump ones (typically in all-in-ones) simply because of pump failure, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely, especially custom loops.

 

[StrangerGuy]

U mad bro?... someone leak on your CPU flakes?

Do tell, why won't you consider water cooling? I'm a bit suspicious of the block + pump ones (typically in all-in-ones) simply because of pump failure, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely, especially custom loops.

Maybe if you drop that winning attitude of yours and you would learn something called cost effectiveness.

 

[Vectronic]

That's all I wanted to know, in your previous post you gave no reason, the equivalent of saying "I won't consider the 212 Evo." like somehow you were the only person UaVaj was asking.

For some people, cost effectiveness isn't a primary consideration (and for some not one at all), his priorities were stated as: Temp > Noise > Cost.

Most pre-built closed loop coolers don't have much of an advantage over the higher performing air coolers for Ivy Bridge... but, they can be more quiet, and they have a different set of pro/cons than air-cooling other than temperature and noise.

 

[dma0991]

Do tell, why won't you consider water cooling? I'm a bit suspicious of the block + pump ones (typically in all-in-ones) simply because of pump failure, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely, especially custom loops.

Watercooling isn't made for everyone. Some prefer the simplicity of air coolers which is very predictable. For example, if a friend of mine came to me wanting a custom loop, I'd think twice, literally. Will he be able to troubleshoot if anything happens? Will he be able to perform regular maintenance, monthly or yearly?

Sure, the benefits are great but so is the responsibility one has to bear. I enjoy doing watercooling and whatever perks that come with it as I consider it a hobby. Others may just find it a chore.

 

[Idontcare]

Ummm...I'm pretty new at this fluid dynamics math thing, but on the NH-D14 wouldn't you rather have 140mm fans rather than 120mm for better airflow with less noise at a lower RPM? Perhaps even Noctura's own NF-A15 PWM. Or the LEAP 140mm PWM model. Or the Prolimatech 140mm PWM. My 2 CFM.

If you can find good review data on 140mm PWM fans, then sure that is what you want.

Problem is you can't go by the manufacturers specs whatsoever, they are all BS as 120mm fan reviews show over and over again. And what little review data you do find on 140mm PWM fans you have to be suspicious whether it is truly an independent review.

At least with comprehensive 120mm fan reviews like those that xbitlabs performs, you can separate the wheat from the chaff and make legitimate cost/performance and noise/performance decisions.

 

[amenx]

Cooling: NH-D14 > 9900Max (by 3°C)
Looks: 9900Max > NH-D14
Price: 9900Max > NH-D14 ($60 vs $90 Canadian... 9900 is $40 after rebate)

Function: 9900Max *without* it's fan, will run better than the stock cooler in a 1+1 intake/exhaust case. (at stock speeds)

May not be particularly useful, but I'm bored and that's all I have that's relevant...lol

Weight:

9900max = 750g
NH-D14 = 1.24 kg

Thats a heavy cooler.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Priorities are: Temp, Noise, Cost.

Get this: http://www.amazon.com/Macho-BW-Suppo...A3D1M5ET5Z3YT6

BTW, I don't really trust those Frostytech numbers (nor many others for that matter), I just can't see why a Noctua NH-C14 would beat a NH-D14.

 

[UaVaj]

BTW, I don't really trust those Frostytech numbers (nor many others for that matter), I just can't see why a Noctua NH-C14 would beat a NH-D14.

you have a very valid point. some of the number are off. way off.

i.e.

guru3d shows the NH-D14 is better than H100.
frostytech shows the H100 is better than the NH-D14

tom show the CNPS12X is better than the 212 Evo
frostytech shows the 212 Evo better than the CNPS12X

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with such discrepancies. going back to basics - aka looks. when it comes to air cool HSF. bigger the heatsink, more the heatpipes, more the fan, better the cooling.

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found a deal on a new deepcool assassin for $40 plus $5 shipping - so going with that.

 

[dragantoe]

I've got a 9900 max for my 3570k and it never passes 55C during long gaming sessions and never goes pas 65C during prime95

 

[Idontcare]

guru3d shows the NH-D14 is better than H100.
frostytech shows the H100 is better than the NH-D14

I own both and I can vouch for frostytech's results.

The H100 is superior to the NH-D14.

There is a reason the D14 is priced below the H100. If Noctua thought they had a higher performing product than the H100 then they'd be selling it at a higher price point - or at the very least they'd be making a hell of a lot of marketing noise that their $80 HSF bests a $110 water-kit.

 

[Vectronic]

I've got a 9900 max ... 3570k ... never passes 55C during long gaming ... never goes past 65C during prime95

He's planning on 4.5GHz with 3770K though... do-able for normal/daily usage @ 4.5 (probably about 70C, actually 4.8GHz is too @ about 85C)... not for stress testing/true 100% usage though, it'll hit TJMax.

I'm fine with that for my $55 (skipped rebate), because I'm staring at the cooler all the time, so... form > function...lol